My favorite book on this topic:

War Before Civilization: The Myth of the Peaceful Savage

Wow. Interesting. Thanks.

I can't agree that agriculture results in protein deficiency though, LOL. That's ridiculous in the face of ANY of the new research. T. Colin Campbell (one of the original high-protein/meat dieticians who has since changed track) and others have refuted that as effectively as can be. The U.S. RDA of protein is ridiculously high, and even the myth of the necessity of "complete protein" has been disproved. Regardless of the presence of all the amino acids in your food, "grains and legumes" on a veg diet or not, if you're eating whole foods and you're not calorie deficient, you won't be protein deficient either. Vegans like this guy:

≡ Click to see image ≡

...(who trains "combat athletes" like UFC competitors, making "heavy" use of kettle-bells, heh) disprove the wimpy, anemic, protein-starved vegan stereotype. And she does a good job as well.
;-)

In all, the article probably oversimplifies things on both the agrarian and carnivorous sides, but it raises great points. Great stuff.

I think, shane, that you're talking about modern vegetarians who can tailor their diets knowing what foods provide which nutrients, versus the first agrerians who were eating perhaps one or two crops. I don't doubt that they had an imbalance in their diet. Not to be contrary, but it's just what comes to mind. I could be totally wrong.

The one line that jumped out at me was

Incessant innovation is a characteristic of human beings.

I am a Christian, and I often wonder at what makes man different from other creatures; what, in effect, gives him a soul. I once thought it was the concpet of making relative and moral judgments. Perhaps that is part of it, but this incessant innovation idea is pretty discriminating as well. Does what sets us apart give us a soul, though? Or does it simply set us apart?

Anyway, an interesting article, and I've added jason's_planet's suggesting to my book list.

DC: I think my definition of 'noble savage' is different from yours. Guns, Germs & Steel is a very long-winded book that examines this.

...what, in effect, gives him a soul.

I've known too many noble animals to have the slightest doubt that they have souls, and I've known too many heinous humans to be anywhere near certain all people have souls. In fact, the idea of some people being soulless is about the only answer I have that makes sense of the human race, the one puzzle piece that fits every piece surrounding it. So many people seem to be empty puppets jerked on the strings of biological urges, childhood psychology, social conditioning, and other "programming," and so few seem able to think for themselves... Well, it makes more sense than "evil" and goes a long way toward explaining how some humans can act with absolutely no morality whatsoever, no conscience, no empathy... no soul.

Just my .02¢.

I see what you're saying about modern versus old-time agrarian culture, too. Still, some corn and squash and you have a complete protein, all the amino acids that exist.

I think the problem on both sides stems from ascribing a moral superiority to either form of society. I also think both models (hunter-gatherer vs. agrarian) are overly simplistic, since there is abundant evidence of societies that combined hunting, seasonal migration to food sources, and seasonal farming.

Our present-day problems have their sources in far more recent decisions than in the choice of what food to find, and how to find it, on a distant plain milennia ago.

I appreciate your two cents shane. You're a wise person. I don't think this was intended to be a philosophy thread, but I think I turned it that way. Good, interesting discussion all around.

Seriously? People think violence is a recent invention? And I guess we taught it to the animals once we figured it out, right? Will read this article further when I have more time since it seems interesting.

The incomplete diet does make sense, if only because of modern transportation versus primative. I know no vegan could live and be healthy off just items that grow in my region, even disregarding that it is too cold for most crops from October to April.

Most of my veg and vegan friend seem to rely on a diet high in foods imported from a lot of other regions, or, if not imported, made of items not native to the area that have been introduced thanks to modern communication and transportation methods.

Seriously? People think violence is a recent invention?

Yeah, I certainly wouldn't think so. Then again, there's a guy named Will Tuttle who wrote a recent book linking violence, objectification of women, and all kinds of other nastiness to the advent of herding and keeping cattle. It sounds like stretching till you read it and realize what an incredible, fact-based argument he makes. There were plenty of ancient wars fought over cattle, for example. I always thought it was inane that the Tain bo Cuailge, Ireland's greatest ancient epic, is about a huge battle fought over a bull. Tuttle made a lot of sense out of that for me, LOL. Ghaaah.

Thanks, Doohickie. Really. I thought I'd come off as pretty cynical and bitter or even mean with that remark, but I honestly don't mean to. Thanks for not taking offense or anything. I kind of wince when I voice that sentiment. It's not the most Christian of opinions, I suppose.