MetaChat - Flourescent light proselytizing

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28 December 2007

Flourescent light proselytizing →[More:]Can someone explain how, out of all the ways we can save energy, flourescent lights have ended up with the impetus? People are parrotting their virtues the way I never hear people talk about gas efficiency, proper home insulation, or double-paned windows.

I hate them. The state forcing me to switch from a warm incandescents to a cold, flickery, buzzing, mercury-filled light source will drive me back to candles and lanterns.

post by: small_ruminant at: 17:50 | 30 comments

Eck. I hate fluorescent lights, too. They make me seriously anxious and depressed.

I think we should figure out a way to get more sunlight during the day. *That* would be a sure-fire energy saver. :-)

posted by occhiblu 28 December | 17:57

Agreed. They'll take my incandescent bulbs from my cold dead hands.

posted by pieisexactlythree 28 December | 18:05

The state is forcing you?

I like a BRIGHT office, so I have 5 100-watt equivalent CF lights going, for a total of maybe 120 watts (rather than 500 watts incandescent, which I wouldn't be able to justify).

I'm not proselytizing at all. I don't really think they will lead to much conservation. As was pointed out in the recent metafilter thread, any money saved by using CF bulbs will almost always go into further consumption of something else. Unstoppable human nature.

posted by DarkForest 28 December | 18:18

My hotel room in Mexico had all CF bulbs. Didn't bother me at all. If the bulbs had looked like incandescents, I wouldn't have even suspected.

posted by mullacc 28 December | 18:24

Well they DO make 3500K fluorescent lights now, and a lot of the time you can find them in the "twist" version. They give a more "incandescent" type of light.

For a home, I don't think it makes a huge bit of difference in your light bill, but extrapolated out over a whole city, if the majority would switch to all fluorescent lighting, it would save a LOT of energy.

We have switched to mostly twist fluorescent lighting and it seems OK. But I hold out for a good color rendition, and have shitcanned (actually recycled or given away) ones that have a yucky light. And you don't really know until you come home and try them.

posted by danf 28 December | 18:33

And you know what else? You can use an incandescent bulb as an improvised crack pipe. Can you do that with a CFL? Well can you?

Actually, maybe you can...

posted by pieisexactlythree 28 December | 18:34

As to why people have embraced them--very easy way to feel you're "making a difference." How many people does it take to change the world? Just me and this lightbulb...

posted by thebrokedown 28 December | 18:48

But how many worlds does it take to change a lightbulb?

posted by occhiblu 28 December | 18:50

California is talking about getting rid of incandescents.

I'm stocking up.

posted by small_ruminant 28 December | 19:08

The whole U.S. is talking about getting getting rid of incandescents. The current energy bill has a big jump in auto fuel efficiency standards. But the other part of the bill will save several times the amount of energy that more fuel efficient cars will ever save- that's the part of the bill that has big incentives for flourescent bulbs. I'm not sure it says flourescent specifically, but I think it mandates an 80% savings in power used by lighting, which basically means flourescents and LEDs win out over incandescents.

To answer the original question, the big push for flourescents is that the energy savings to be realized are some of the lowest hanging fruit in the energy budget; it would be madness to ignore that.

For the record, though, I hate flourescent lighting as well; the only flourescents I have in my home are in my garage (and one under-counter light in the kitchen).

posted by Doohickie 28 December | 21:56

It would be way more environmentally correct to only eat local cheese, but I'm damned if I'm giving up the European cheeses. There's a quality of life issue here that just isn't being addressed in the propaganda.

posted by small_ruminant 28 December | 22:35

I use them everywhere but the chandelier, where they didn't look right....BUT most of them are in bulb down, which vastly shortens their life. I also found out the hard way that they should not go in an enclosed fixture. I have only seen screw-in LED's for sale on specialty websites, which don't list the comparable wattage for incandescents and whose prices are prohibitive.

posted by brujita 28 December | 23:16

We are both really, really sensitive to quality of light, and we have these in almost every lamp or fixture in our house.

The trick is to make sure you get the "warm" variation, and also to get a wattage high enough to match your incandescent. For example, a 15 watt CF bulb (at least in the one I'm looking at right now), is equal to 75 watts, and at the top of the box it shows two boxes, one for "daylight" and one for "warm" and the "warm" box is checked.

We've been using them for about three years, and I totally adore them because I'm not constantly buying and changing bulbs (and also switching bulbs from one lamp to another, because one has blown, and I don't have any more on hand). But we would never use them if we had to put up with cold florescent light, which is just about the worst thing in the world.

posted by taz 28 December | 23:54

I second taz. When I was in grade school we had hideous flourescents in our classrooms. For years flourescents stayed the same. But now if you're careful getting a CF you can get a good one. I stayed at The Hotel (that's really its name) in Las Vegas, which is pricey. All the bulbs in the room were CF and I didn't realize until I happened to look under a lampshade.

The light I'm using right now is even a CF.

posted by halonine 29 December | 04:28

The majority of my power is hydro and none of it comes from coal, so I don't think my town needs the mercury problem from CF. But, we are burning diesel when over capacity, so I'm conflicted.

I'd like to use them in the kitchen, where there are six energy-hungry floods, but none of the CF replacements will fit in the fixtures due to the wider base of the CF bulbs above the screw threads.

posted by D.C. 29 December | 05:00

Man, I just got some of the new new new bulbs and they look really good (and I'm picky). I'm slowly replacing all the lights in the house with them.

posted by chuckdarwin 29 December | 05:13

I should have mentioned that besides being warm, ours don't flicker or buzz or anything like that. One of the older ones takes a few seconds to come to full light, but none of the new ones do. And the price has become quite affordable; when we first started buying them they were around 7 euros each, which was ouchy - 'til we found a place that sold them for 5 and we slowly replaced all but the small socket bulbs, because those weren't available. Now they are, and prices for CF are not much more than regular bulbs, especially at large chain-like places (Ikea and Praktiker here).

It's really helpful for us, because electricity is quite expensive here, and we use a lot of lights to get the overall light "mood" the way we want it, and our electric bill was always silly-high for two people living in a small place. Plus, changing the bulbs seemed a never-ending effort - it was really hard to have every light working at once. It feels very luxurious to rarely change a bulb.

posted by taz 29 December | 05:47

and I'm sorry; I do sound like I'm proselytizing, but in truth, it just happens to be one of the few consumer things that for me, personally, feels like a true benefit instead of a ripoff.

posted by taz 29 December | 05:51

taz - how much have you saved, roughly?

posted by chuckdarwin 29 December | 05:55

I don't know, actually, because we're not good at all at keeping track of stuff like that, and it's been several years now - but it was a visible difference in our bill. I've just been looking for our last bill, and can't even find that at the moment.

posted by taz 29 December | 06:09

My man is crazy about those energy-saving things and buys them for everything. It has gotten so that I sneak out to shops to buy myself "proper" old fashioned light bulbs and sneaking them home as if they were drugs just to keep my rooms with old light. I hate them - even though he's now checking for "warm" kinds and whatever else. I spot when he changes a bulb to one of those at once - the other morning he had switched the kitchen light to a new bulb and I looked at him when he turned the light and said "no you didn't!" - he was quite surprised that I can tell on these new versions that do everything to mimic warm natural light (especially before my morning joe when my eyes are barely open). It's blue no matter how you slice it. I also pay the electricity bill and see no difference (but we have many many computers on every day, so the light bulbs can't really dent that).

posted by dabitch 29 December | 06:38

Dabitch, do you still have the box for that one? Are you sure it's a "warm"? I've made a mistake before, and bought "daylight" and ended up throwing it out. The warmer ones that are supposed to be like incandescent are 2700 kelvin, and the cooler ones are higher. (that info is probably at the top of the box)

posted by taz 29 December | 06:59

The majority of my power is hydro

Actually, isn't electricity more of a continent-wide resource? Any savings in one area just get sold onto the grid to be used elsewhere? So savings in a hydro area still offset fossil/nuclear generated in other areas(?). But I am not proselytizing, dammit.

posted by DarkForest 29 December | 09:42

I like fluorescents.

posted by Eideteker 29 December | 11:58

Uh oh. I sense another defense of the indefensible coming on!

The problem we have in our house is that a lot of our "decorator" fixtures use the bulb as a design element (usually an oversized round). Replacing them with Carvel twist ice cream fluorescents would be teh suck.

posted by Doohickie 29 December | 12:48

I'm still not hearing any answers to the mercury problem. To make matters worse, I don't trust integrity or competence of the few existing programs to recycle these things.

posted by pieisexactlythree 29 December | 13:18

Replacing them with Carvel twist ice cream fluorescents would be teh suck.

Yes, but they make round ones now.

posted by chuckdarwin 29 December | 13:22

I seriously doubt the majority of people will dispose of them properly. Mercury in landfills equals trouble.

posted by Feisty 29 December | 13:26

Mercury repellent.

posted by box 29 December | 13:27

Honestly, I saw a display of an incandescent & a cfl in frosted fixtures. I chose the most pleasant light and it was the cfl. Long fluorescent tubes often hum, but twisty bulbs don't. They have different ballasts, but I misremember which is which. I have them in most fixtures. It would be nice if I could buy different wattages at the supermarket. I got small ones for the chandelier at IKEA, but won't be back there any time soon.

Why it matters? How many lights on in your house? Multiply by # of households in the US/North America/planet and it becomes significant really fast.

Mercury? The reduction in mercury from coal not burned more than makes up for the mercury in bulbs. My city doesn't recycle them. yet.

And they save you money. They last much, much longer, and use less electricity.

Love incandescents still? I've got some I should send you. Not actually kidding - I stocked up on bulbs, which I will not be using.

This sounds all preachy, and I don't intend that. Just wanted to respond to some of the issues. look into the flickering light..... you WILL love the CFLs.....

posted by theora55 29 December | 17:51

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