People who process things verbally will not respond well to a verbal signal that you'd like to end the conversation. What you need to do is give them a different kind of signal; I suggest standing up and interrupting them politely.

It may feel rather abrupt to do this, especially if you're the type of person who is normally tuned into folks' visual signals, but for someone who doesn't get those verbal clues, it's a good way to communicate.

Does that make sense?

Yes. But it also makes me realize I've phrased my question badly.

I don't really mind that she's talking. It's more that I don't know how I'm supposed to respond to it. I always end up feeling like I'm cutting her off -- because, dude, I got the point in the first 30 seconds and now I'm in problem-solving mode, and the additional info isn't really adding anything at this point.

But she's a bit senior to me, and I have time to listen, and I want her to leave the conversation feeling good about what happened.

Which for me, when I walk into someone's office with a problem, would mean that I walked out with a solution, and the quicker the better. But she seems to be looking for something else to happen, and I can't figure out what that something is.

I mean, literally, she talked at me for a half hour this morning, kept asking me my advice for fixing this problem, I gave her a list of options that would work and kept vowing that I'd be happy to help with whichever one made sense to her, and then she hemmed and hawed for 20min. about whether the problem was even important enough to fix, then wandered away without anything being resolved.

And she seemed happy with this unresolved confusing state of affairs, as if she had worked something out in her own head. But it left me very confused, and I don't understand what part of our interactions I'm not interpreting well.

Actually, I just realized that it also slightly concerns me because there's enough of a political bent to this office that I'm a bit worried she's just doing this in order to say, if something backfires in the future, that she discussed things with me and so it's my fault if people are unhappy.

Ah, I see.

But she seems to be looking for something else to happen, and I can't figure out what that something is.

My hunch is that she wants to be heard, and wants to feel like she's making progress with her problem solving; whether or not she gets a clear solution is apparently not important. You say she seemed happy with your interaction: she probably was.

I would suggest that, for your own clarification/peace of mind/CYA you do lots of mirroring while talking to her. Real basic, sure, but allows her the opportunity to clarify what she wants or even just to clarify what the hell she's talking about. Say lots of things like "So what I hear you saying is this, is that right?" and "What would happen to the situation if we [insert one of your solutions here]?"

She'll end up feeling heard (which will make her feel good), and possibly give you more information to work with.

And it's okay to tell her that you're confused as to what her goal is in discussing things with you, or at least, you can ask her "How can I help you clarify/solve/work on this issue? Because I'm not clear on how I might be able to help you."

I might also keep a little log of what you discuss and when, and the fact that nothing really was resolved, if that's the case.

Specklet has this beautifully. And, I'd add that you can follow up in a "helpful" email, summarizing your conversation, then conclude with something on the order of "let me know if I can be of any assistance."

The thing I love most about Metachat, sometimes, is how many years of collective experience we have solving interpersonal/office problems like this. I feel like we should form some sort of Action Squad to travel the country and give advice exactly like Specklet's.

Thank you both; that makes sense.

I think part of my frustration with some of these sorts of things is that this is a very email-averse office because no one likes to be committed in writing. Whereas I'm (a) a writer who (b) has severe problems with uncertainty and (c) prides herself on coming up with clear solutions and (d) enacting those solutions really efficiently.

So for one of the first times in my professional life, I'm falling too far over on the "thinking" scale and not hitting enough of the "feeling" scale. I feel like a bull in a china shop sometimes, and it's confusing me.

I'm obviously totally in venting mode at this point. :-)

On non-preview: Ha, muddgirl! That would be awesome.

The whole talking-through-a-problem-without-a-discernable-solution is very stereotypically female. Like Specklet, I'm betting that she just wants to be heard and talk through everything to make sure she has a good handle on the problem. Which can be very frustrating for a problem-solver (stereotypically males).

*has been studying communication coaching for situations like this*

Incidentally, I don't think that the talking-through-a-problem-without-a-discernable-solution is necesarily a female trait, but more of a thing for someone who I would identify as "verbal".

However, the offering-of-a-solution-when-all-I-want-is-for-you-to-listen-to-how-crappy-my-day-was I think is stereotypically a male trait.

The whole talking-through-a-problem-without-a-discernable-solution is very stereotypically female. Like Specklet, I'm betting that she just wants to be heard and talk through everything to make sure she has a good handle on the problem. Which can be very frustrating for a problem-solver (stereotypically males).

Which is, I think, why I'm slightly bewildered in this situation. I'm a chick! I'm studying to be a therapist! I'm good at letting people work through emotional processing without forcing them to come to a premature solution!

But I've started to realize over the last few years that my in-the-office personality differs greatly from my not-in-the-office personality, and apparently in the office I'm stereotypically male. :-)

but more of a thing for someone who I would identify as "verbal".

I like that. What would the other end of the spectrum be labeled?

I like that. What would the other end of the spectrum be labeled?

Visual. There's also kinesthetic (feeling). In my experience, most people are a mix of the three, but lean heavily towards one. Your co-worker is pretty obviously verbal.

And the person who assumes everything is binary would be....? ;-)

Sigh. And I'm in the midst of a synchronicity of readings calling for a more integrative holistic approach to life, too.

You know, I really shouldn't say "verbal" it really is "auditory"...

Binary? Hmm. We may have to create a special "nerd" category.

Sounds like she's Rubber Ducking. She could do that to an actual rubber-duck (as referenced here) but I've no idea how you could suggest it without causing offence.

That rubber ducking thing is awesome. I want one.

But that was the weird thing -- she did actually need me to act in order to fix the problem, she just seemed completely uninterested in figuring a solution and totally fine with having brought up the problem, talked about why it was a problem, brainstormed a few possible solutions, agreeing that she would have to be the one to take the next step, and then... wandering away and not doing anything.

It's reminding me of working with Italians. There just seems to be a much higher tolerance here for ambiguity, and there's a feeling that in any transaction, the subtext and relationship-building are much more of the point than any content to the discussion.

It's what I call my "trapped in a Henry James novel" feeling.

Check out Myers-Briggs too. It sounds like she's a "P" and you're a "J".

It's what I call my "trapped in a Henry James novel" feeling.

Oh god, yes! That's it! Hee hee!

Check out Myers-Briggs too. It sounds like she's a "P" and you're a "J".

Yeah, big time. She's also a strong E and I'm a strong I. It all makes professional interactions very weird.

trapped in a Henry James novel

That's a GREAT description!

and completely off topic, did anyone see Eddie Izzard's imitation of a British movie?

--- door opens ---

"Oh! I..well.. oh."

"What is it Sebastian? I'm arranging matches."

"Oh. Well. I thought... well...I had better go."

"Yes, you better had"
--- the end ---

That's how I feel about Henry James novels.

Love that bit, small_ruminant.

Ha!

Yes.