MetaChat REGISTER   ||   LOGIN   ||   IMAGES ARE OFF   ||   RECENT COMMENTS




artphoto by splunge
artphoto by TheophileEscargot
artphoto by Kronos_to_Earth
artphoto by ethylene

Home

About

Search

Archives

Mecha Wiki

Metachat Eye

Emcee

IRC Channels

IRC FAQ


 RSS


Comment Feed:

RSS

29 August 2007

Jonmc defends the indefensible. and we're bringing out the big guns now.[More:] I'm talking about the two bands guaranteed to make any hipster smirk or prog snob gag. Yes, I'm talking about Foriegner and Journey.

Both bands have sadly become synonymous with the term 'faceless FM corporate rock,' which is odd since such a thing didn't quite exist when both bands came into being. One could almost make the argument that the whole AOR phenomenon sprung into being as a response to their success.

But both bands have a bit in common. Both were formed out leftovers from previous scenes (the best known Journey lineup featured guitarist Neal Schon and keyboard man Greg Rolie from Santana and bassist Ross Valory of cult psyche act Frumious Bandersnatch. Foreigner featured former members of British hard rockers Spooky Tooth and King Crimson.) Both bands also managed to use the innovations of their earlier experience-meaty guitar riffs, distortion- and combine them with concise pop craftsmanship to create great hooky car stereo rock. Sure, there were deeper and more meaningful bands aplenty, but these cats were good at what they did. And they were generally content with being the worlds biggest bar bands and didn't want anything more. OK, Foriegner wanted to know what love was, but Journey was generally content with some loving, touching and the occasional squeezing. And even those who despise both bands will grudgingly admit they both possesed vocalists who had excellent voices. Apparently, at the We Are The World session Bob Dylan went up to Journey's Steve Perry and said 'Man, you've got a great set of pipes.'

And when they had their moments of genuine inspiration, they could transcend their limitations, if only for a song or two, but that's always fun to watch. So here's the cream of the crop as it were:

Journey:
Lights(their best ballad for my money, shows Perry's pipes nicely without going overboard)
Anyway You Want It(their hookiest number, showing they had pop acumen. Although Steve: wear a shirt next time, please)
Don't Stop Believin'(their most inspired and best song IMHO. I remeber hearing this song at a friends house and liking it so much that I had to go by my first record, which launched a lifetime of fandom. Their fusion beginnings show in Neal's clean guitar tone, but the dynamics are all rock and roll)

Foriegner:
Juke Box Hero (a nicely dynamic ode to rock star fantasy. and as someone who has put his ear to the wall of sold-out shows, it resonates. That inflatable jukebox is really something. I wonder what became of it. It's probably floating somewhere with Pink Floyd's pig to this day)
Urgent
I Want To Know What Love Is(these songs show some willingness to venture out: the sax solo on 'Urgent' from R&B legend Junior Parker and the gospel choir on "I Want To Know..." add some new dimensions while retaining their own sound. Nice trick that).

I am sure many of you have just died inside a little bit.


Personally, I adored (and still love) both these bands. I even got Foreigner on cd; though I need to get Journey on cd also. Foreigner's "Girl Like You", and the above mentioned three, are my all-time favorites. So, no, I didn't die inside, jonmc. These songs bring back a lot of great memories. *happy sigh*
posted by redvixen 29 August | 19:18
Oh, no you don't. You don't get away with not sharing Long, Long Way From Home with us *and the album version is much better than this live version*.

This stuff brings me to: driving around high, hitting up my best friends' brother to go buy for us, and smoking cigarette after cigarette, thinking we were cool dudes.

Also: Journey's Don't Stop Believin: I was driving, in the rain (sober) when I T-boned a girl from my school as she pulled out in front of me as this song's piano riff played. I swear that car stalled anytime that song played after that. 1973 Monte Carlo in 1981, loved that car. Spent a ton putting a new front clip on it.

Also, Dirty White Boy, Headknocker *fires up torrents*
posted by disclaimer 29 August | 19:37
dislaimer, both those tunes were good, but the three I posted were just a notch above, I think.
posted by jonmc 29 August | 19:39
My best friend's cousin loved Journey and would play their tapes constantly. I was never a huge fan. I had the attitude of, "oh jeez, not Journey again." And I was never a hipster. They grow on you. I love "Wheel in the Sky" and "Send Her My Love". "Lights" is great. All three of your Foreigner pics are good ones. Great songs to sing along with.
posted by LoriFLA 29 August | 19:40
Hey, you like what you like. Neither band is to my taste, let's say, but c'est la vie.

I actually used to like Journey, right up until they took Steve Perry on board. Given the choice between listening to him sing or blinding myself with a hoof pick, I think I'd start shopping for a seeing-eye dog. I find him shrill and overly-mannered, to say the very least.

At least Lou Gramm's voice sounded human.
posted by bmarkey 29 August | 19:47
I'm talking about the two bands guaranteed to make any hipster smirk or prog snob gag.

Most of the hispters I know actually like Journey, for what it's worth.

Boston, too.
posted by dersins 29 August | 19:52
(bmarkey, I've got a ton of 'defends the indefensible' lined up. I'll eventually find one you'll admit to digging just a little bit)

Most of the hispters I know actually like Journey, for what it's worth.

Boston, too.


Ironically, maybe. The ones I know are too hung up on all that cliquey 'not punk/trendy/angsty/ironic/whatever enough' stuff to realize that enjoying both Journey and Roky Ericson or the Pink Fairies(to pick a name) for different or (occasionally) the same reasons is not and irreconciliable position. The artsists I pick for these entries are the ones that I've recieved eyerolls, smirks and smartass responses for paying or saying I liked, both online and IRL. So I'm going for a new paradigm of rock fandom I guess.
posted by jonmc 29 August | 19:56
Keep trying buddy. I loved both these bands too. C'mon, throw us a real bone. Celine Dion, Hasslehof, something really reprehensible!
posted by tr33hggr 29 August | 19:57
The only music that's truly indefensible is that racist skinhead shit, as far as I can see. The rest is just down to personal taste.
posted by bmarkey 29 August | 19:58
A lot of the hipster Journey fans that I know like 'em unironically, and in the warm soft light of childhood nostalgia.
posted by box 29 August | 20:01
The only music that's truly indefensible is that racist skinhead shit, as far as I can see. The rest is just down to personal taste.

Well, it's a figure of speech. But you have to admit that Journey, Foriegner and Bon Jovi have had a lot (I'd say excessive) derision and bile thrown their way over the years and both the music fan and the contrarian (contraian who sincerely likes the stuff he's writing about, but contrarian nonetheless) in me thinks a re-examination is in order.
posted by jonmc 29 August | 20:02
Dude, Journey will always be a great band. I could listen to them all damn day.

Great story: once, back in Seattle, one of the baristas at Ye Olde Indie Coffee Shop in lower Queen Anne (aka Uptown Espresso), was playing their Greatest on the box. Everyone in that cafe stopped what they were doing, listened for a second, smiled, and everyone started bopping along to the music or singing along. This went on through 3 entire repetitions of said album.

Foreigner? Dog shit on toast.
posted by Lipstick Thespian 29 August | 20:05
C'mon, throw us a real bone.

Yeah, how about Wham!? :) They are indefensible. Although, I did like I Want Your Sex.

As a teen I loved INXS. I'm sure INXS are eye -rolling material. And I like the band, Bread. That shows how unhip I am.
posted by LoriFLA 29 August | 20:09
INXS had their moments ('Need You Tonight' 'Don't Change' "Never Tear Us Apart' and that cover of the Easybeats' "Goodtime" with Cold Chisel's Jimmy Barnes showed an admirable pride in roots and willingness to rock).

And Bread,... 'Guitar Man,' is a great song.
posted by jonmc 29 August | 20:11
STYX
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur 29 August | 20:22
Actually, I like Tommy Shaw solo (and Damn Yankees) better than Styx.
posted by jonmc 29 August | 20:23
As a teen I loved INXS. I'm sure INXS are eye -rolling material.

Hell, I was a teen a few years after INXS were no longer popular, and I still love 'em. I have their live album on CD. Never Tear Us Apart is a fantastic song.

And I like the band, Bread.

I'm really not familiar with Bread, mainly because my first exposure to them was through a BMG (or the other one...Columbia House?) catalog and the only album they had listed was "Anthology of Bread" which read to a pubescent kid struggling his way through a suburban middle school as a grand way to get one's ass thoroughly kicked repeatedly.

As far as Journey goes: Love Wheel in the Sky. Can't stand Don't Stop Believin'. A lot of the stuff from that era that you seem to be defending, jon, I think people hate due to years and years of overexposure. A lot of the early hair-metal/pop-metal was played relentlessly for years on radio and MTV, until they got lopped in with the Trixter's and Mr. Bigs of the world and were mercifully shot down (in the mainstream) by Smells Like Teen Spirit.

But, I dunno, a lot of this reminds me of the final scene from the Homerpalooza episode of the Simpsons.
posted by ufez 29 August | 20:24
Edgar Winter Group!

Alan Parsons!

Kansas!

Yes!
posted by disclaimer 29 August | 20:24
First two I like. The last two are pretentious wankery.
posted by jonmc 29 August | 20:26
Heh. Actually, speaking of Bread, Styx, and the Homerpalooza episode.
posted by ufez 29 August | 20:27
(also Tommorow's entry in this series will have widely divided opinions, based on previous experience)
posted by jonmc 29 August | 20:27
Journey is thoroughly defensible, Foreigner less so, but the one band of that genre I never hear anybody defending?

REO Speedwagon (talking about their hitmaking days, not any obscure early stuff)
posted by wendell 29 August | 20:43
"Riding The Storm Out" and "Keep The Fire Burning" are good tunes.
posted by jonmc 29 August | 20:47
Wham!? The 'Choose Life' t-shirts are indefensible, but that Christmas song is the jam.
posted by box 29 August | 20:59
I think people hate due to years and years of overexposure. A lot of the early hair-metal/pop-metal was played relentlessly for years on radio and MTV,

I realize that. I was there, sir. But then after a few years of listening to nothing but underground/'indie' stuff only, I listened to some of the stuff again and got to enjoy it on it's merits. Now, with no car, I don't listen to the radio, except for Little Steven's Underground Garage online, so I control my own listening experience and can appreciate the whole ball of wax, silly trends be damned. And I like Nirvana just fine, but the didn't shoot down anything so much as they just opened a window and let some air in. No offense, but that's kind of a standard issue version of rock history which is usually lacking.
posted by jonmc 29 August | 21:05
I've been liking Journey lately. Started around the time I moved into San Francisco. I must be watching the lights go down in the cit-ay too often.

Watching the live concert video, it's interesting to see Steve Perry was singing with his head tipped to the side; I'm no vocalist, but that seems like it'd kink the windpipe and/or change the resonance of the air column.
posted by Triode 29 August | 21:52
Yes, they are wankery. They were plants. :)

Also: REO Speedwagon, 1971, PBS: 157 Riverside Avenue. I was going to put up the live one of 157 from 1985, but Kevin Cronin is a complete tool on that one, for 9 minutes. Ugh.

Asia? Molly Hatchet? ELP?
posted by disclaimer 29 August | 22:15
.38 Special was better than all these bands. And The Marshall Tucker Band is one of the most criminally underappreciated bands of all time.
posted by BitterOldPunk 29 August | 22:20
Ack. I vehemently disagree with everything said in this thread, yet violently concur as well. What the hell.

A lot of the music I buy these days was made up of the bands in this thread, even though I full well recognize the unpopularity of much if the music. The Yes Album is currently in my car's CD changer.

Some of these bands (Styx, for instance) were my all-time favorites when I was younger, but now they turn my stomach. Others I wasn't too crazy about when they were current, but like them better now (38 Special, for instance).
posted by Doohickie 29 August | 22:36
.38 Special was better than all these bands. And The Marshall Tucker Band is one of the most criminally underappreciated bands of all time.

I agree that .38 Special is uderrated. "What If I'd Been The One" is an excellent song. Marshall Tucker were great, too. So were Molly Hatchet, on the southern rock tip as well.
posted by jonmc 29 August | 22:38
I still appreciate the Steve Perry Journey and Styx. Neither one show on my ipod or anything. You know.
posted by rainbaby 29 August | 22:39
Nowadays, I'll settle for any band who doesn't plug their guitar into a laptop.
posted by mischief 29 August | 23:23
Pop rock bands I can get behind from time to time:

Pat Benatar (don't ask for track titles; I'm way too tired)
Cheap Trick (those first four albums - Cheap Trick, In Color, Heaven Tonight, and Live at Budokan - are all aces; Dream Police has its moments.)
The Cars
Heart (first couple of albums)

Pop gets slammed because (rightly or wrongly) it's percieved to be playing to the lowest common denominator. I don't mind all that much if a band does that, so long as it's not blatantly obvious. Donnie Iris' "Ah Leah" is just as formulaic and pre-processed as anything Foreigner ever did; the difference (for me) is that A) it's fun, and B) Iris seems to have had fun making it. Your mileage, as always, may vary.
posted by bmarkey 29 August | 23:25
Wow. I grew up on just about all of those bands, 'cept maybe Marshall Tucker. Were any of y'all into the Jon Butcher Axis?
posted by black8 30 August | 01:40
Were any of y'all into the Jon Butcher Axis?


I remember the name, and I have vague memory of liking a song of theirs, but I can't remember a damn thing about the song itself. That's due more to the swiss-cheese consistancy of my brain than anything else. Old age blows, kids.

posted by bmarkey 30 August | 01:59
Life Takes a Life.
posted by jonmc 30 August | 06:24
Every sub-genre (or micro-genre, these days) of popular music (which, as I mean it here, encompasses all Western secular and non-orchestral/non-symphonic/non-operatic/non-"serious" music) has it's ultimate good and bad examples.

Journey and Foreigner are both somewhere in the middle of the pack (cheesy 80s guitar bands), I reckon. I think they were both WAY overplayed in the Golden Payola Days, and everyone is just sick to death of them.

Commercial radio and the Record Industry have collectively created all the problems they are currently experiencing through greed, unethical behaviour, lying to artists, smashing innovation/creative thinking, pandering to stereotypes and condescendingly targeting certain demographics.

These two bands are both victims of this phenomenon. Not that I could ever sit through one of their records these days.

If you put a gun in my face and MADE me choose one, I'd choose Foreigner over a bullet in the eye.
posted by chuckdarwin 30 August | 07:20
Foreigner sucked rocks in hell.

Badfinger!
posted by chewatadistance 30 August | 07:33
Yeah, like chuck, my main objection to Journey and its ilk is not their actual music (for what it's worth, I owned Escape when I was in high school, as well as Agent Provocateur) as much as the fact that these two bands, and many others from the same time frame, ended up on Classic Rock and Light Rock radio playlists, and have never left. I have bellyached before about the guy in the office next to me who constantly plays the local classic rock radio station (and yet never seems to really listen; odd that) and that station has truly impaired my ability to enjoy things like Led Zeppelin, the Cars and Journey.

In middle school and high school, I was a huge Styx fan. I appreciated their ability to actually play their instruments well, and both Dennis De Young and Tommy Shaw were quite good at creating catchy pop and rock tunes, and often their songs' topics were well outside the usual rock topics. I just didn't see at the time how cheesy some of their stuff could be, although I was never the biggest fan of their ballads - Babe was always an awful song to me, even in 1979. I don't listen to them much these days; once every few months I'll pull out one of the mp3 sets I have and listen. Ah, the good ol' days.
posted by deadcowdan 30 August | 08:43
Neither Journey nor Foreigner are bad at all, jonmc. Then again, we've listened to and talked about both quite a bit, so you know how I feel about them (I'm a Toto fan, as you know, for what it's worth). You should try defending someone like Scritti Politti or Animotion, or someone really shitty like Blind Melon.
posted by Hugh Janus 30 August | 09:40
So years ago, when my ex was in outpatient rehab, he was friends with this one guy who was also in it. Now this guy, he was big. And he rocked that "thug" look.
And he LOVED JOURNEY.
So we'd all do karaoke. And he'd get up, and do Don't Stop believing.
But he would do it in a Mike Tyson voice.

My job was to see how many people were torn between laughing and leaving in terror because they were afraid he'd kill them for laughing.

(in reality he could sing wonderfully, we just loved the tyson does journey bit)
posted by kellydamnit 30 August | 10:33
I saw Styx, Journey and Foreigner together last year. It was quite possibly the best show I've ever seen. Juke Box Hero - just AMAZING.
posted by youngergirl44 30 August | 20:00
"Only Revolutions," Mark Danielewski. || LT Defends the Defendible (and gets his Indie hackles raised in the process)....

HOME  ||   REGISTER  ||   LOGIN