MetaChat - Jonmc defends the indefensible, Part 1.

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28 August 2007

Jonmc defends the indefensible, Part 1. (and in the process wave bye-bye to whatever shreds of cool he has left.)→[More:] The first concert I ever saw was the Scorpions when I was 14. The opening act was a bunch of relative unknowns from New Jersey with really big hair who sounded a little bit like the results of a frenzied coupling of the E Street Band and Def Leppard.

Yes, I'm talking about the Hair Farmers from Sayreville-Bon Jovi. Over the years, I always secretly dug these guys and listening to them today*, they hold up a lot better than most of the pop-metal of the same era, not to mention much of the 'serious music' of the same era, due to their absorbtion of the Jersey Shore sound into the usual Aeromith/Kiss brew. And Jon's actually a pretty good vocalist and knows a hit when he hears one. So here's the cream of the crop from YouTube

Born to be My Baby
Living On A Prayer
Wanted: Dead Or Alive
Lay Your Hands On Me
I'll Be There For You
*and yeah, it tales me back to my late teens and early twenties.

post by: jonmc at: 18:58 | 51 comments

And I thought it was the being at a Scorpion's concert that needed defending :)

Jon rocks!

posted by AwkwardPause 28 August | 19:30

/bites tongue

posted by richat 28 August | 19:38

Go ahead and say you think they suck, if you think they suck, rich. But I'm sure there's some equally uncool band you love. One of the joys of growing older as a music fan is that you realize what a sham 'cred,' is and can just start enjoying stuff for what it is.

posted by jonmc 28 August | 19:40

OHHHH OHHHH HALF WAY THE-ERE!
WHAH-HA! LIVIN' ON A PRAYER!

Am I doing it right?

posted by jokeefe 28 August | 19:42

that depends. are you throwing panties and a hotel room number on stage?

posted by jonmc 28 August | 19:43

I remembered this being funnier than it is, but I'll throw it out there just the same: CONCERNING JON BON JOVI, WANTED DEAD OR ALIVE.

posted by bmarkey 28 August | 19:54

Heh. From interviews I've gathered that Bon Jovi seem to have a sense of humor, so they'd probably dig it. And even if you hate the genre, you've got to grant that they're good at waht they do. and I've met Bon Jovi fans of surprising provenance: punk chicks, thrashers, 'bear' gay dudes, you name it. Thay gots appeal.

posted by jonmc 28 August | 19:57

's ok jon, I'd still like you even if you said the Partidge Family was the coolest band in the history of mankind.

posted by chewatadistance 28 August | 19:57

and that last glass of wine stole my 'r'.

posted by chewatadistance 28 August | 19:58

I'd still like you even if you said the Partidge Family was the coolest band in the history of mankind.

chewie, looka my t-shirt:
≡ Click to see image ≡

(although one of the strangest difficulties in life is finding who don't think it's bizarre that I can enjoy both Bon Jovi and...Captain Beefheart, or Blackalicious, say. NTM, enjoy the company of fans of both. Don't ask me why

posted by jonmc 28 August | 20:01

Jon, I say with all sincerity, that I am not convinced there is a band that I like that is as uncool as JBJ. He might be a great guy, and I wouldn't deny that he has talent, or that his band is talented.

The schlock that they unleashed on the music world though? Goddamn it makes baby jesus cry. "Wanted: Dead or Alive" is one of the biggest piles of stinky cheese ever committed to 2 inch tape.

Even great lines like:
Sometimes you tell the day
By the bottle that you drink

are left in the dust by such dreck as:
I'm a cowboy, on a steel horse I ride
and...
I walk these streets, a loaded six string on my back
I play for keeps, 'cause I might not make it back
I been everywhere, and I'm standing tall
I've seen a million faces an I've rocked them all

Bon Jovi, to me, is what happens when talent goes wrong. He's using a great voice and a talented band to make terrible, anthemic, lowest common denominator hits. It's just lame. Lame. Lame.

Now, don't mistake what I am saying...you are free to like them. But that's MY opinion of Bon Jovi.

posted by richat 28 August | 20:02

Sorry, no love for Bon Jovi, but I still have a soft spot for Animal Magnetism by the Scorpions but thats a bit before your time, I think. Great guitar sounds and the kind of record that sounded great on a crappy car stereo.

Nice Partridge Family shirt, I'm jealous.

posted by doctor_negative 28 August | 20:04

Well, Bon Jovi have never been about the lyrics. and 'anthemic' is good. and I'd rank them ahead of 'lowest common denominator' in that as silly as some of their lyrics are, unlike a lot of their hairmetal brethren, they at least made an effort to do songs about everyday life rather than hedonistic fantasies or sword-and-sorcery stuff.

that I am not convinced there is a band that I like that is as uncool as JBJ.

Do you like any synthpop? Because that entire genre is worse. At least Bon Jovi rock out. and "Wanted.." isn't for everybody, "I'll Be There For You" is a really good ballad IMHO, since instead of doing the standard power-ballad slowbuild, he goes for a smoky, torchy kind of feel, that actually suits his voice. YMMV.

posted by jonmc 28 August | 20:07

Was Bon Jovi maybe more of an east coast thing? When I was living in Sacramento (1982 - 89) I knew a fair amount of hair metal fans & don't recall any of them ever mentioning the band. Not much radio play, either. Scorps, yeah, Def Lep, hell yeah, but the only time I ever heard Bon Jovi was on MTV.

posted by bmarkey 28 August | 20:10

Jersey? I thought Jon Bon Jovi was Canadian.

posted by shane 28 August | 20:14

bmarkey: kinda. They're very...Jersey. If you grew up on the eastern seaboard, you knew guys like these, they weren't quite as scuzzy as the west coast contingent and more influenced by the Springsteen/Southside Johnny thing. I knew a guy name TJ in high school who had his hair blown out just like JBJ (although he had a Mighty Mouse tat a la Tommy Lee on his bicep). His best buddy Jody wore a fringed white leather jacket. We called him 'Bon Jody.'

(and I like Def Lep a lot ('High & Dry' is probably the best non-AC/DC AC/DC ever) but Bon Jovi is a notch better, maybe because of the melodicism and seconhand R&B influence via Springsteen)

posted by jonmc 28 August | 20:15

Oddly enough, a couple of the members of Bon Jovi played in the J. P. Stevens jazz band. I met them at a competition that my high school band was in. I thought they were weenies then, and I think I was right.

posted by plinth 28 August | 20:16

Shane, I'd like to get all huffy about your assumption, but then I remembered Celine Dion, Alanis Morrisette, Avril Lavigne, Bryan Adams, and so on...But, no, he's not one of ours!

Jon, good point about the lyric content. I'll totally give them some credit for skipping the swords and sorcery stuff.

The thing I don't really get is this: Why is Bruce SO MUCH better? I mean, I think much of the content is similar. But Bruce just reeks of reality, while to me, BOn Jovi seems like units of product.

Oh, and I don't think I like any synthpop, but I'm not sure I know who that would be. It's a silly point anyway. I do have a soft spot for Journey. Man, that Steve Perry could sing.

posted by richat 28 August | 20:21

Shane, I'd like to get all huffy about your assumption, but then I remembered Celine Dion, Alanis Morrisette, Avril Lavigne, Bryan Adams, and so on...But, no, he's not one of ours!

Do not lump Bryan Adams in there. He's coughed up some dreck, yes, but he's written a few really good bar-rock songs ('Take Me Back' and 'It's Only Love,') which puts him ahead of the rest of the people you mentioned.

I do have a soft spot for Journey. Man, that Steve Perry could sing.

and 'Don't Stop Believin'' and 'Wheel In The Sky,' are excellent songs, no irony required. Hell Journey may be next in my 'Defends the Indefensible' series.

The thing I don't really get is this: Why is Bruce SO MUCH better? I mean, I think much of the content is similar. But Bruce just reeks of reality, while to me, BOn Jovi seems like units of product.

Well, because Bruce is light-years more talented. But JBJ is still not bad. I'm just saying that the Boss' influence made his bands music better than most other hairmetal (Faster Pussycat, some mid-period Crue, and Twisted Sister-who don't really belong in the hairmetal category frankly-are also near the top of that particular heap).

posted by jonmc 28 August | 20:27

I met JBJ! His motorcycle (sorry, steel horse) broke down outside my camp. And since it was pre-cellphone he had to come in to use the phone.

You could hear the collective swoon from miles away.

posted by birdie 28 August | 20:45

Yeah, I'm kind of surprised that more of the Mecha ladies and gay dudes aren't in here definding him. Say what you want but homeboy's prettier than most women.

posted by jonmc 28 August | 20:48

Oh he's a pretty man. His music just doesn't speak to me though.

posted by gaspode 28 August | 21:06

Man, Bon Jovi brings back some interesting memories for me.
I'd heard Bon Jovi's pervious album and really like the song "Roulette."
Man friend Jim came home on leave from the Marines and I remember me and my buddy Derek picking him up from his mother's house for a night of drinkin'.
"Dude," Jim said as he got into the car, "You gotta listen to this!"
In his hand was a cassette of "Slippery When Wet." We cranked that thing for Jim's whole visit. I bought my own copy and played for another week. Right about then MTV seemed to pick up on it and for the NEXT YEAR, they were in regular rotation.
By then, I'd moved on to "Bleach" and "Screaming Life/Fopp" and Bon Jovi came to represent everything I hated about rock music.
They don't bug me now, but I can't listen to that record anymore. I feel the same about "The Joshua Tree" too.

BTW, Jon. Since metal seems to be on your brain, I'd like to know what you think about these guys?

posted by black8 28 August | 21:15

Journey? Sí. Steve Perry? No!

As for Bon Jovi, it always seemed odd to me that he was considered metal at all. Pop, sure, but there's a distinct lack of gnarly riffage to what I've heard of his music. Granted, I haven't heard that much. Maybe I missed all the heavier stuff, but when I think Bon Jovi I think power ballad.

posted by bmarkey 28 August | 21:17

His music just doesn't speak to me though.

Oh, to be clear, I'm not offering him up as a great lost auteur or something. I'm just saying he's not as awful as many people have said he is. he's..pretty good, is how I'd put it. Very enjoyable under the right circumstances.

bmarkey. I picked 'pop-metal' for lack of a better term. It rocked harder than most top 40, but in a Kiss/Aerosmith way, not a Sabbath/Zep way. And their best stuff in my opinion was the Jersey shore-with-somewhat beefier riffs stuff like 'Born To Be My Baby,' which is simply a good fun song, which is all it ever aspired to be.

posted by jonmc 28 August | 21:26

Trouble! I remember them, sort of the Christian Cult meets Sabbath. Not bad at all.

posted by jonmc 28 August | 21:32

I'll take Jon Bon over Poison ANY DAY. The greatest crime from the Hair Metal years is the song Talk Dirty to Me.

posted by Lipstick Thespian 28 August | 21:51

The greatest crime from the Hair Metal years is the song Talk Dirty to Me.

Actually, I contend that if Poison had vanished after that record, they'd be fondly remembered as a nifty one-hit wonder.

posted by jonmc 28 August | 21:54

although, I'm still not entirely sure that Rikki Rocket from Poison isn't a woman.

posted by jonmc 28 August | 21:57

"Wanted: Dead or Alive" is my go-to karaoke tune. Never fails.

posted by eamondaly 28 August | 22:33

Oh, to be clear, I'm not offering him up as a great lost auteur or something.

Oh yeah, I know. I mean in that vein. I mean, it doesn't speak to me the way Journey does. I'm not dissing JBJ because he's not Dylan.

posted by gaspode 28 August | 22:49

Born to be My Baby
Living On A Prayer
Wanted: Dead Or Alive
Lay Your Hands On Me
I'll Be There For You

I'll take She Don't Know Me or Runaway over any of those.

posted by ROU Xenophobe 28 August | 22:52

Also, I have a deep and abiding love for the ubiquitous Scorpions radio-blurb...

I am Klaus Meine!
And I am Rudolf Schenke!
And we ahhhhhh.... SCOPIONS!

[trying to get their thick teutonic accents through there]

You can hear the metal-hands getting made. Ideally, the blurb bleeds into No One Like You.

The versions where they cluck like chickens before announcing themselves are extra-awesome.

posted by ROU Xenophobe 28 August | 22:58

The greatest crime from the Hair Metal years is the song Talk Dirty to Me.

I beg to differ.

posted by ROU Xenophobe 28 August | 23:01

I am Klaus Meine!
And I am Rudolf Schenke!
And we ahhhhhh.... SCOPIONS!

I freak Science Girl out with that one every now and again. What I wouldn't give for an actual recording of it.

posted by bmarkey 28 August | 23:02

The greatest crime from the Hair Metal years is the song Talk Dirty to Me.

I beg to differ.

Let's face it: hair metal is fraught with crime.

posted by bmarkey 28 August | 23:07

Bon Jovi sucks, but not for being the best of the hair bands. Bon Jovi sucks for unleashing these guys on the world.

And if anyone steps up to defend "Hot and Bothered", I'ma pop a cap in they ass.

posted by BitterOldPunk 28 August | 23:39

"I've seen a million faces and I've rocked them all" is all I want on my tombstone.

posted by Divine_Wino 29 August | 00:03

I've learned from my visits to the US and attendance at various parties that 'Living on a Prayer' plays the same role at a party in the States that 'Hi Ho Silver Lining' does in the UK. It seems like a ritual, most people are drunk off their asses, everyone throws their arms round each other's shoulders and yells out the lyric.

posted by essexjan 29 August | 00:42

Dig that shirt, jon!

posted by chewatadistance 29 August | 07:00

I still love The Go Gos. And Styx. And Rush.

And at one time I thought Corey Hart was the total shit.

posted by tr33hggr 29 August | 07:27

I was about to say what essexjan said.

Say what you will about Bon Jovi (and every other 80s pop group, for that matter), it's great party music.

posted by muddgirl 29 August | 08:57

The couplet richat quotes ("sometimes you tell the days/ by the bottle that you drink") leads into maybe the silliest lines ever:

sometimes when you're alone
all you do is THINK!

I've always heard that and just started laughing. Oh, Jesus, no, not thinking! God forbid that I should be forced to think! The experience is so harrowing that I need to write a self-pitying song about it!

(that said, I've got no beef with Bon Jovi as a whole; they're not my cuppa, but no one who's had "Walking on Sunshine" in their head for three straight days is in any position to cast aspersions)

posted by cobra! 29 August | 09:03

Shit, jonmc, Bon Jovi's indefensible? Those guys are great, and Slippery When Wet is one of the best album titles ever.

You want indefensible? How about Howard Jones?

posted by Hugh Janus 29 August | 09:13

I've been watching these MTV videos on Google from 1983. It's a great time capsule. Someone must have just stuck a tape in their gigantic top-loading VCR and hit record. They've kept all the videos, commercials and VJ banter in there.

Part 1
Part 2

It's interesting to me to see what feels like it holds up and what doesn't. Also, there were some groups that I despised in 83, but find tolerable or even catchy now. I think that's because back then I hated bands for nonsensical reasons that had nothing to do with their music.

For example, I hated the Police because this girl that I despised loved the band to death. And I thought Sting was a pretty boy. But man, watching that Synchronicity II video, it's actually a fairly "hard" song for its time. And the video is pretty good too, compared to some of the drivel it's surrounded by in 83 era MTV.

I'm afraid I still can't get into Bon Jovi though. I still associate them with frat boy cheese rock. This Sabbath-loving longhair couldn't stomach them back in the day, and still can't now.

posted by Otis 29 August | 09:16

I can beat this.

I downloaded "Wait," by White Lion [turn your speakers way down]. From iTunes. Yes, I paid for it.

posted by desjardins 29 August | 09:17

Oh, and I went to a Def Leppard concert. In Montana. In 1999. How washed up do you have to be to play Montana? Anyway, I met the band. Rick Allen was really, really nice. Joe Elliot is a douchebag (big shocker there).

posted by desjardins 29 August | 09:21

Yeah, but "Rock of Ages" was as good as it gets, right? I was backstage with them in Maryland in 2000 or -01, and they were pretty cool, though I was mostly hanging out with the opening act.

Say what you will about wash-ups, Leppard are total pros onstage. They have the love, and it shows.

posted by Hugh Janus 29 August | 09:35

bmarkey...fwiw, any love I have for Journey does stop when Gregg Rolie left. It's the seventies version I do like. Sometimes.

posted by richat 29 August | 10:12

Are The Scorpions the ones who did that unbelievable homoerotic video with all these body builders slathered in oil (or something)? Um, and the band members were pretty much naked too. Except for the singer, who wore fetish boots.

I know I wasn't dreaming, because I watched it with my son at least twice (going WTF the whole while).

posted by jokeefe 29 August | 12:34

The Scorpions are fantastic, and Ritchie Sambora was a better guitarist than the format allowed him to be, most of the time at least.

Am I uncool? I never knew.

posted by ikkyu2 29 August | 15:58

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