How profoundly disturbing.

No way is that a real book. No way.

It makes me feel very sad.

Me too.

But you'd be shocked how many gay men have told me that they were molested or raped while young. I know I was.

(And we all know that Uncle Pete is really headed for the Grey Bar Motel where a very large cellmate is waiting for him.)

(I wonder if this is a book utilized by child abuse counselors?)

I'm with TPS. This can't be real. How very lovely and precious that the uncle sees a counselor at the end and apologizes. When does this happen?

I dunno about the real; I worked in a library for a looong time and there are some *weird* issue books out there. It doesn't strike me as impossible.

It is indeed a real book.

Alfie's Home by Richard Cohen.

My thought was that this was from the Dark Side - teaching kids that gays are made and not born, that sort of BS. You see some really funny stuff on the Right side of the street.

(and that's "funny" as in "funny uncle")

Perhaps unsurprisingly, the publisher is an ex-gay organization.

Well, there you go.

ick. I gotta wash my brain now.

[deleted tirade]

WTF.

My biggest problem with the whole "Ex-Gay" thing is the attitude of "I did it, and so can you!" It's like a weird sexual get-rich-quick scheme. It's like it exists in a universe so different from my own (somewhat limited) experience.

Yeah, my initial hit was an ex-gay thing. Jerks.

This is so strange and sick and what the hell?

I could relate to the first couple of pages.

Everyone thought we were a happy family... Dad yelled a lot... Mom cried a little...

She never shared her unhappiness or problems with us kids though. She was a great parent in trying circumstances. Thanks mom.

I have met gay men who were abused by uncles. Hunting trips were a "good" venue for this, it seems.

That said, it still does now make it right to assert that gay people are "broken" in that way. It's very icky to twist the two issues (pedophilia and homosexuality) together like this. Very Rovian, I might say.

So is being ex-gay like being a recovering alcoholic -- i.e., you can go for years without partaking, but one quickie blowjob at the office Christmas party and you fall right off the wagon?

That said, it still does now make it right to assert that gay people are "broken" in that way. It's very icky to twist the two issues (pedophilia and homosexuality) together like this.

Absoultely, danf. Thanks for making this point.

There's no agreement among the parties that collect child sex abuse statistics on how prevalent it actually is. There's a range of estimates. You'll see one source cite that 15% of all kids are sexually abused, while another says it's 30%. Part of the problem is that most abuse, presumably, goes unreported.

So anyway, being molested and being gay have no causal relationship. Period. If it did, there'd be a lot more homos walking around.

Not to mention the fact that most abuse is perpetuated by relatives (and not always relatives of the same sex). If child sexual abuse were going to be the seed for any deviant behavior in adults, it logically would be incest. And that just ain't the case.

But you'd be shocked how many gay men have told me that they were molested or raped while young. I know I was.

Yes, exactly. Many children are molested and raped. It happens to many, many children. Some grow up to be straight, some grow up to be gay. That's all there is to it. The fact that some people who confess to having been assaulted are gay is completely irrelevant.

It's the equivalent of starting a story with "There was this black man walking down the sidewalk" when the point of the story is that he bent over to tie his shoelace. It is simply a nonfactor**.

**In the vast majority of cases. There are undoubtedly isolated cases where a negative childhood experience affected the adult to the point where it influenced their choice of sexual partners. But that doesn't mean that it is, on the whole, a causal relationship.

/rant

Well, no matter what one believes about homosexuality, it is certain that if one is sexually abused-by ANYONE- that there would be sexual/intimacy issues of one sort or another. I can think of two people right off the top of my head that would have benefitted from that book about two decades ago.

(My friend that died? He had this issue. Exactly. He was horribly molested as a young child and it had devastating ramifications. He struggled with not only his sexual identity but also with DID. The latter, he found healing, and the first? When I met him he was definitely heterosexual. I am VERY good friends with his widow. Who now works with folks who struggle with DID.)

I also know a man who is a Christian and does not claim to be ex-gay. He simply asserts that he abstains from homosexual activity. He feels his stance is the most honest one. I can't argue with him.

(FTR I don't consider the attraction, per se, to be sin. Lust, yes, but heck, we ALL fight that battle, including yours truly.)

One more thing. I suspect there is a helluva more incest happening out there than most people would be willing to believe. After all it isn't something that one brings up in conversation, I suppose (unless they are talking to ME. People seem to be willing to tell me anything.)

it is certain that if one is sexually abused-by ANYONE- that there would be sexual/intimacy issues of one sort or another.

Homosexuality is not a mental or relationship "issue" of any sort, at least not beyond the "normal" hangups our society has about sex generally. To you, being gay is a problem by definition. Your definition is inaccurate, at best.

Also, little help with "DID"?

Yeah, I've been trying to think of a way to say that, dano. Well put.

Same here, dano.

Just want to add that, again, it's not a gay thing. Yeah, being abused is very likely going to fuck with the whole intimacy thing later in life, regardless of your orientation or "what one believes about homosexuality."

It. Is. Not. A. Gay. Thing.

Thanks for saying that in a polite way danostuporstar. I could not find it.

DID seems to be Dissociative Identity Disorder- meaning he was a "multiple" as my friends have referred to it (Multiple personalities).

Yes, multiple personality disorder.

And as to the gay thing, here I am not talking about the person who has same sex attraction early on before they know there IS such a thing as sex. We are all grownups here.

Certainly you know that people can be confused about their sexuality for various reasons- I don't think we are talking here about someone who has a settled identity one way or the other. No one should have an identity forced on them.

And yes, I did indeed write that last sentence. I don't think someone with a gay identity should be or indeed can be forced to be "other." But they do have a right to change if it is what they wish. And a child has a right not to be touched or molested by anyone.

ANYONE.

Wow... an insinuation that gay people are the products of sexual abuse, and a joke about jailhouse rape, in the very same thread?

Now we just need an off-hand remark about gays "recruiting," and we'll hit the bullshit trifecta.

Certainly you know that people can be confused about their sexuality for various reasons- I don't think we are talking here about someone who has a settled identity one way or the other. No one should have an identity forced on them.

Oh, there are so many sides to this coin. Isn't it just as "forced" to say "You are confused because you were abused" as it is to say "You are confused because you're gay"?

Personally, I think that most people are naturally somewhere in the middle, sexually (I don't mean emotionally or romantically). It's amazing how much environment and upbringing ("socialization," if you like) affect our "innate tendencies".

BoPo, I picked the fliers up at Kinko's and I got a good bulk deal on coffee makers and toasters. Let's get together to finalize our strong-arm tactics before going downtown to bring more into the fold. How's 6:00 work for you?

Wait, I could get a coffee maker? Is it the French press that fits into a Nalgene bottle? Because if it is, where do I sign up?

If that's what it takes, box. If that's what it takes.