I don't know how many time I've told those boys, never call chicks "broads."

'chick' is more of a slang term than a slur, at least to these ears.

'chick' is more of a slang term than a slur, at least to these ears.

Yeah, maybe you're right jonmc, I was thinking of asking about this. Is calling a woman a chick the equivalent of calling a man a dude?

For some reason I don't like the word chick, especially coming out of a kid's mouth. It's up there with women calling other women whores or sluts.

Is calling a woman a chick the equivalent of calling a man a dude?

Depends on the context. If you say "that LoriFLA is one cool chick," then it is more or less the female equivalent of 'dude.' 'Whore,' and 'slut' are pejoratives and not equivalent in my opinion.

Very true jonmc. Good example. :) It does depend on the context.

Maybe I am hearing it in a disrespectful way, when it isn't always intended to be.

I've never heard "chick" used in a negative way, even when only in the company of other males. It's the female version of "dude".

chick
c.1320, abbreviation of chicken (q.v.), extended to human offspring (often in alliterative pairing chick and child) and used as a term of endearment. As slang for "young woman" it is first recorded 1927 (in "Elmer Gantry"), supposedly from U.S. black slang, in British use by c.1940, popularized by Beatniks late 1950s.

My main experience with the word is from hearing my brother use it, exclusively, to refer to women. Honestly, I don't think I've ever heard him refer to a woman as 'a woman' -- it's always 'chick.' My brother admits to having problems with women, so I've always taken it in that context -- dismissive and somewhat condescending. I can't know how other people mean it, though, so I try not to apply his hangups to other people.

(And I don't think he means it negatively, necessarily, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't have that impact, given his baggage.)

I don't think it's anything like calling a woman a slut or a whore, LoriFLA.

There's a gap in the English language for a informal term for a woman. For males, we have "boy" (young male), guy (informal term for male), and man (formal term for grown male). For females, we just have girl and woman. There's no informal term for a grown woman that sounds as neutral as "guy". What do we have? Chick, broad, doll, and dame which all sound vaguely disrespectful. There is also "gal", but for some reason it sounds so dated and stupid.

Oh, there's also lass and lad. But though I often use the word "lad" with my male peers (friends, brothers, dates or exes), I don't like or use "lass".

There is also "gal", but for some reason it sounds so dated and stupid.

I actually kind of like 'gal,' but I'm a big fan of archaic slang, just for linguistic variety. I have to admit that being called a 'boy,' (aside from 'jonmc is one of the boys,' etc) would make me feel like I was wearing overalls and carrying a toy fire truck. 'Broad,' can be used positively: tough broad, sassy broad etc. but again it's very conext-specific.

I won't use 'lad,' because faux-euro affectations are a pet peeve of mine.

I don't think it's anything like calling a woman a slut or a whore, LoriFLA.

You're right. Referring to women as chicks ranks wau lower than calling a woman or a slut. I guess I'm referring to the level of cringe that overcomes me when I hear a woman labeling another woman a slut. When a disgruntled female calls her old boyfriend's new girlfriend a whore or a slut, it's obnoxious and offensive. Sort of like when I hear a man refer to a woman as a chick. Such as, "that chick is nuts." It rings as rude and crass.

as for linguistic inequality, I'll quote the great scribe Anka Radokovich: "Men will say 'Let's go get some pussy!' But I have never heard a woman say 'Let's go get some dick 'n' balls!'"

She's got a point.

Chicks Are So Goddam Touchy: An Insider's Guide To Jokes That Make Themselves. Available in all fine bookstores.

Just because "chick" isn't offensive doesn't mean Zack and Cody aren't douchebags, however. I think Dan Savage did a This American Life (or similar) commentary on that show a little while ago. My daughter loves the show (though she's more into the London/Maddie dynamic), and when Z & C are being pre-pubescent asses I just point it out to her in some vaguely disapproving way and figure she's getting a little early exposure into the machinations of the boy mind. At least it's better than watching Billy Ray Cyrus valiantly try to act his way out of a paper bag on Hannah Montana.

/Disney rant

High School Musical 2 countdown: T-6 days

as for linguistic inequality, I'll quote the great scribe Anka Radokovich: "Men will say 'Let's go get some pussy!' But I have never heard a woman say 'Let's go get some dick 'n' balls!'"

I have heard women say that they "need some cock," and not just in porn...

I wouldn't consider myself touchy at all. I think it's pretty obvious that the term chick is often used in a derogatory way.

Again, it all depends on the context.

I was peeved as a waitress if a person called me "darlin'" or "good girl". I never heard a person, other than a grandmotherly types in movies, call a male server a "good boy".

I got over it fairly quickly. I realized for the most part that I'm living in the south with a bunch of hicks and people are going to call you darlin'. It's a term of endearment. Calling a woman a good girl on the other hand is a little creepy.

I was peeved as a waitress if a person called me "darlin'" or "good girl".

That's odd because if a waitress said 'hi, honey/sugar/darlin'/handsome' I automatically upped her tip 10%. Working in retail for years (and now again) I got called 'young man,' or 'young fella,' a lot. I still get it now and I'm 36 with visible gray in my hair.

Is it ok to call a woman a chick
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if she's riding a ChickWagon?
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I was peeved as a waitress if a person called me "darlin'" or "good girl". I never heard a person, other than a grandmotherly types in movies, call a male server a "good boy".

For some freaky reason I get "Honey" from waitresses[1] a lot. Always have.

[1] [NOT SEXIST] I never get Honey from a waiter.

"chick" is the same as "baby" to me. That's just the way I hear it. For me, hearing a guy referring to a woman he is or wishes to be romantic with as "baby" is just creepy.

When I was a server, customers would refer to me, the server, as a "good girl". Waitresses have referred to me as honey, darlin', sweetheart, etc. also. It's not as offensive for some reason. When you serve someone a beer or a coffee and they in turn, say, "good girl", it's somewhat annoying and disrespectful. I'm not your good girl. Your dog Ginger is a good girl.

But back to the term chick. Who wants their school-aged child to refer to females as chicks? That's why I mentioned this show. Maybe I'm just sensitive and touchy, but I'd rather my kids refer to their peers and classmates by their names.

In New Orleans, the waitresses call everybody "sugar," male or female, so it's both charming and gender neutral.

This is completely OT, but everytime I hear the term "broad" now, I think of this pic that mike9322 took of matildaben near the French Broad River in Asheville last summer:

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Who wants their school-aged child to refer to females as chicks?

Kids like using slang. It's harmless.

Slang is okay for adults, but I have to agree with Lori, I don't want to hear a nine-year-old referring to girls as "chicks" or "baby" or any of that kind of slang. Not age-appropriate, even though it may be appropriate sometimes between adults.

Likewise, the middle school set should not refer to each other as "studmuffin." (I soooo got in trouble for that!)

I don't really like chick, gal or broad. I'm also not fond of hearing adult females referred to as girls (and certainly don't want to be called a boy, I'm over 40). Age is nothing to be ashamed of. I don't mind being called dude, but I grew up in California in the 70's, everybody was dude (not "a dude"), as in "dude, pass that thing over here" or "dude, you fucked that shit up!". Hon or similar from elderly women, waitresses or otherwise, is fine. If somebody wants to try and be nice, I'll just take it at face value.

Adding to the chorus of replies:

Chick is to girls as dude is to guys, I suppose. I actually think "chicks" is more equivalent to "guys" but that's just me. You would sound silly trying to use "chicks" in an offensive manner.

Zach and Cody are still douches.

Who wants their school-aged child to refer to females as chicks? That's why I mentioned this show. Maybe I'm just sensitive and touchy, but I'd rather my kids refer to their peers and classmates by their names.

I don't want to hear them using the terms either. Weird. Probably for the same unknown reason my mother never liked it when I said "duh" as a child. Get off my lawn?

When a disgruntled female calls her old boyfriend's new girlfriend a whore or a slut, it's obnoxious and offensive.

And immature. Years ago an ex of my then boyfriend referred to me as "Wonderslut". Uh, he was my first.

I've never been one to deride women my boyfriends dated before or after me, unless of course they decide to act like douchebags to me, as above. They just don't enter my radar at all.

"Chick" never bothers me if a woman is saying it. I say it occasionally, and when I do it's neutral. If a guy is saying it, I listen for context. But I agree it'd sound all wrong coming from a kid.

"Gal" makes me shudder. Can't explain why.

"Broad" -- well, it goes with "tough broad." Is there any other kind?

"Lass" only works for me in particular contexts. I sometimes use it to apply an adjective to someone, as in "She's a sensible lass".

I knew someone once who always used "dame" as a casual term for a woman. She argued that it came out of a time-honored film noir tradition. Since then I've always rather liked it.

Of course, the definitive catalog of such terms is this song, though the original cast recording is about a million times better.

I know I'm in the minority, and maybe a bit hypersensitive, but I hate being addressed as "Ladies" when I'm part of a group. (I couldn't get those clauses in the right order, but you know what I mean.) It totally irks me. Partly because it's exclusionary, and partly because it just don't fit.

I hate being addressed as "Ladies" when I'm part of a group.

Oh, me too.

Though "Hey, lady!" (singular) cracks me up. Go figure.

"Hey Lady" in a Jerry Lewis voice is fine.

"Hey, lady" -- where 'lady' is used in place of my name -- bugs me. (Strangely, lesbians are especially bad about this. Not that I know any.)

LoriFLA, kids generally refer to women who are elder to them over here as "auntie" which I've always found sweet.

Of course, it always sucks when someone who is not that much younger to you uses the word.

Nope, don't like it, never say it. To my ears "Chick" sounds like part of a bulk quantity: one of those items with breasts.

"Chick" doesn't particularly bother me, especially if it's a woman saying it, but I know a fair number of men who can get away with it as well (though it can depend on context and tone). "Broad" and "dame" are only used, in my experience, in a sort of ironic, noir-ish tone. Which renders them totally acceptable, of course. "Ladies" only works if you are asking for the restroom, imitating Jerry Lewis, or singing a Beastie Boys song.

I may stand alone in finding "gal" perfectly acceptable and even affectionate. But then, I grew up in Wyoming.

I casually know the mom of the boys who play Zack and Cody. Saying "chick" is the least of their problems, believe me.

There's a few things you can do when you create a new word meaning woman.

a) You can sexualise it. Refer to women in terms of their sexual markers or the sex act. Call a woman a whore or a nice piece of ass, etc. This allows males to think as women purely in sexual terms.
b) You can infantalise it. Baby is your purest form here, but Gal fits too. Infantalising women helps highlight the fact that they need looking after.
c) You can refer to women in terms of animal or plant life. Bitch, Cow, Hen, Flower, etc. Women must also realise that they're lesser to men.

If you're really clever, you can merge two of these requirements into the one word. Chick is great because it both animalises and infantalises.

Also, Here's me on AskMeFi Looking for different words for women.

Of course, I'm as guilty as anyone. Flower & Pet are two words I use all the time.

This is why we watch Nick Jr or Cartoon Network instead of Disney when I babysit, lol. (Not really... I just don't like the Disney Channel.)

So you're one of those "Don't call me a chick" chicks.

I used to use the word "chick" a lot when I was a teenager. But thinking about it, it seems to have waned in the last 10 years for me. I don't really care for the word now.

As a side note, I've always interpreted the phrase "good girl" as a woman who was a virgin when she married. But this might be a southern thing.

For me chick = dude/guy, not derogatory. But, as other people have said, context is everything.

The mister occasionally calls me baby. I like it. /stands by her man

Funny, I never heard 'chick' much, but in our all girl's high school, we'd say "hey guys!" all the time. It cracked the male teachers up every time.

One thing I'm tired of is douchebaggery The word, period. heh, yeah. If you're gonna insult someone, can you do it without calling him a girl? Or girl product? That's unnecessary to begin with?

Now tool - tool is good. No gender, indicates that said person is a puppet or useful idiot for someone else.

Otherwise, I say dunce is the right word.

on preview - what, no underline tag?

Now tool - tool is good. No gender, indicates that said person is a puppet or useful idiot for someone else.

Actually, 'tool' derives from a slang term for the penis.

(attempts to santise language either for church-lady purposes or PC purpose, will always fail)

I don't find chick at all offensive, but I admit that I wouldn't want to hear a young boy using it. I'm not quite sure why.

I don't find "bitch" offensive when it's used in the "don't be such a bitch" way. Yet, when Gordon Ramsey would berate the women on Hell's Kitchen as "bitches," I screamed at my television that he was a sexist ass.

I don't like being dismissed with a "sweetheart" or a "hon," but find it charming when older gentlemen says it.

Context is key.

(And I vastly prefer Drake and Josh to Zach and Cody. Especially the episodes when Josh was still fat.)

Actually, 'tool' derives from a slang term for the penis.

Well, damn.

Dunce it is, then.

(attempts to santise language either for church-lady purposes or PC purpose, will always fail)

Oh, dear. Not tonight. I have a headache.

[/derail]

I'm not a fan of "chick," but I also really wish there were a less dismissive-sounding female (or gender-neutral) equivalent for "guy." I keep reverting back to my Chicago roots and using "you guys" even when speaking to a group of women, and I don't really like it.

And I really *hate* "ladies." I work hard *not* to fit into that role, thanks.

Closer to relevant, though, I do think "chick" is pretty ridiculous coming from a nine-year-old. The girls he's hanging around with are still girls, so it seems like "girls" pretty much covers it without getting into that awkwardness that comes from insisting on "women" for grown women, since "woman," for stupid fucked-up reasons, tends to sound clinical and/or formal and/or sexual.

Running with the "context is everything" bit, I would only address a woman as "lady" in the same context I'd call a guy "buddy," and by that I mean in an unfriendly way. I usually use both terms to address people while driving.

i've used chick more than anyone else i know and i never thought of it as derogatory but i've used it like beatniky "hip chick". The only problem i know of people having with it is not being very hip or cool to them.
Douche i always think of a "pointless and ridiculous" because they are, but it does get used as a lot lately.

Is calling a woman a chick the equivalent of calling a man a dude?

For me, yes it is. But I don't use it myself - never really felt comfortable. I'm happy using "you guys" to refer to a group of people of either or both sexes, but the singular is problematic - girl doesn't sound right for a grown woman, woman sounds too formal and, as occhiblu says, somehow clinical.

I don't think it really matters what word you use - it's all in how you use it.

Just, please, don't call me/anyone "ma'am." That is all.

"Lady" is too often used condescendingly in the US. I'd rather be called ma'am by someone I don't know---and it infuriates me that the words "woman" and "bitch" have become synonyms. I was at Fanelli's a while ago and a guy at the next table was talking to his friend about a woman he supposedly loved--the only noun he used to refer to her was "bitch". I wanted to say something but I was by myself and afraid he would attack me.

Chick? Enh...peep, peep!

This discussion has come up before on MeCha, and I remember some interesting comments. I haven't the heart to try to wade through the search results...

I have been known to say the word "chick" as well as "dude". None of my female friends has ever complained. My Mom and 2 sisters say chick. I will use it until I die.

*Ducks a flying high-heel shoe*

As important as semiotics are towards understanding inequality on the larger scale, I'm not sure that it always scales down to the micro scale. Certainly when a total douche colonoscopy bag uses language as a weapon, that's significant and deplorable. And when a total tard clueless individual is using a hurtful word without considering, or knowing, the etymology of the word, that's significant but teachable.
When I was younger and more moldable, I acquired the language of the people I spent time with. When my friends swore, I swore. I picked it up. Words are like accents. Words are exactly like accents. When I hung out with friends who didn't swear, I eventually adapted to not swear.

I think of the n-word and the unwritten rule that people with a certain color of skin can use it and some can not. This really acutely serves the purposes (often by design) of self segregation. Like all teen slang, it keeps the adults out of the loop, but it also keeps other races away. And if you dare to associate with the group, there's the extra duty of either giving up aspects of your identity to be "one of us" or consciously fighting the subconscious osmosis process so you don't use the taboo word that everyone else can use.

Language acquisition is deeply subconscious. Mental osmosis. Furthermore, words that we each individually believe to have a commonly understood meaning often do not. I'm thinking of the watermelon discussion, in as much that, I think the insult is much more deeply ingrained and the shorthand is better understood in some US cultures than in other US cultures. I'm thinking also of the code language that Bush Co. uses to work up the base while flying over most everybody else's heads. So, it's important to understand the semiotics of language to understand when it's used as a tool to manipulate on a large scale, but language is so fuzzy that it's not really a fine tool that can be used to judge the intent of individuals.

That is to say, language is mutable and clumsy and unintentional in the microscale. Give people the benefit of a doubt and take language in the spirit it is given in. That being said, Zach and Cody are a couple of bags.