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04 August 2007

I'm thinking of buying a guitar today. →[More:]

I can't afford it, and I can't play it, but I want it. My mom bought a guitar years ago that I played (badly) for awhile, but it felt too big for me (it hurt under my arm), and the steel strings shredded my fingers. I never got past that awkward beginner stage. (How many times can a person play "500 Miles"?)

I'm thinking of a nylon string acoustic to start with, in the $200 range (cheap, I know, but it's all I can splurge right now). I don't mind used, if it's something better for less. I was checking out places online, and East Village Music seems to have what I'm looking for.

I plan to practice chords and scales up and down the frett board until I know them cold. I want callouses that will scare children. Then maybe I'll take some lessons, add nuance. Eventually write songs.

Silly ambition, I know. My little voice is shaking its head at me. You'll buy it, and it'll sit gathering dust like its predecessor, it says. Maybe so.

I play the clarinet, but I'd like something more versatile (it's hard to find an orchestra or concert band to play with). I read music well and know a lot about music theory, so maybe that'll help. Any advice or recommendations are welcome.

post by: Pips at: 09:03 | 38 comments

Keep the wind instrument and start your own band. Worked for Ian Anderson. ;)

If you've willing to save a hundred bucks, Jonmc might be able to help you find a nice Harmony acoustic from one of the NYC shops. In the 60's-70's, they released a number of models for Montgomery Ward under the Airline name, and of course, Sears via Silvertone. The 60's models had f-holes similar to what you'd find on higher-priced archtops.

posted by Smart Dalek 04 August | 09:24

It's not a silly ambition! I say go for it, girl.

posted by chewatadistance 04 August | 09:57

Get the guitar!

posted by fluffy battle kitten 04 August | 10:31

Yamaha makes decent student classicals, as do Takamine. Get something good, or you'll spend all your time tuning it (because the intonation will be shit). LOOK AT THE NECK before you buy. Make damned sure it's straight. Line your eye up with the nut and look down the neck, you can see if its out.

Get a footstool and sit properly. At this stage, developing good technique is paramount.

I would also strongly recommend that you find an experienced teacher.

posted by chuckdarwin 04 August | 11:04

Thanks for the encouragement and advice, folks. Very helpful.

chuckdarwin: Thanks to good ol' google, I see there's a Sam Ash on 48th St., and they seem to carry both Yamaha and Takamine. The Takamine look beautiful, but out of my price range, I think. Maybe I'll have a look there instead, today or sometime during the week.

I know a teacher would be good; I'd offer the same advice to anyone wanting to learn the clarinet (anyone in the NYC area want to trade lessons?). But I'm poor, alas. I've had some lessons in the past, so hopefully that'll carry me through for awhile. Appreciate the tips, though. Are 3/4 body not recommended? It was a full body Yamaha I struggled with before.

posted by Pips 04 August | 12:01

I'll be watching you with interest. When my mother sold her home and enlisted me in emptying the basement, I found my old acoustic guitar in the basement. It's sitting in my study now, its dusty case reproaching me.

I never got proficient with it, but I also didn't practice enough. I can't afford lessons, either, but I'm going to check the library for instructional videos.

posted by Elsa 04 August | 12:28

I would recommend against a classical unless you have your heart set on playing flamenco, classical, or finger style jazz. Nylon strings just don't have the same attack and sustain that steel strings do, and are not as versatile for playing blues, country, jazz, rock, etc.

As for callouses, I'm afraid you'll just have to suck it up and soldier on through it like all of us did. When I started playing (egads, 32 years ago, I was 8), it was uncomfortable, and painful at first. But it's that way for everyone. You develop the proper technique, and before long it will start feeling like and extension of your body. (btw, you'll get callouses with nylon strings as well). It only takes a week or two of playing every day to build them up.

posted by psmealey 04 August | 12:33

Another vote to go for it! Take a weekly lesson if you can swing it.

posted by LoriFLA 04 August | 13:39

One thing to watch for, especially in less expensive guitars, is the action. Many (most) less expensive guitars have really high action (string far off the fretboard) which make them harder to play and tend to discourage people from learning.

Shop around and you should be able to find something workable in your price range. Try several guitars out before you settle on one. As long as you have the willpower to not go nuts and spend way more than you intend, try out a couple higher priced guitars, it might give you an idea what to look for in your starter.

posted by jjb 04 August | 13:58

If you know somebody who plays, even marginally, take them with you when you buy.

posted by mischief 04 August | 14:15

Have fun! I know nothing about guitars, but I think you should do it and have fun.

posted by crush-onastick 04 August | 14:20

I really, really loathe those 48th St stores with a deep and abiding passion. Matt Umanov is closer to home for you, isn't it? It's definitely an all around better store.

posted by ikkyu2 04 August | 15:50

My little voice is shaking its head at me. You'll buy it, and it'll sit gathering dust like its predecessor, it says.

Oh, that little voice? Ignore him. He just loves to get in the way and he never contributes anything positive.

Rock on!

posted by jason's_planet 04 August | 15:54

I read the post as "I'm thinking of buying air guitar today." and I thought I might sell you a bridge or two as well then.

posted by dabitch 04 August | 16:13

I don't own a lighter, but I'll buy one to rock out to Pips in Concert. Yahoo!

posted by ThePinkSuperhero 04 August | 16:33

The Umanov store is a beauty, ikkyu2. More a museum than a store, though, for my lint-filled pockets (I can pick up a 1928 Martin for a cool $100,000). Nary an acoustic listed for less than $3000. Course that's used/vintage. No prices on the new stuff on the website, which I fear is a bad sign. Might be worth a look anyway.

I'm feeling discouraged. I know there is quite a difference between Bundy and Buffet clarinets (I own a Buffet). I only know one person who ever got a decent tone out of a Bundy.

Thanks again for all the advice and good cheer, though. I'm considering steel strings after all. I'm after nice thick callouses anyway. And I didn't realize that about the high action, jjb; maybe that was part of the problem before. With that first guitar, I didn't think my hand could ever be strong enough. Maybe I'll take your advice, mischief, and drag HJ along, if he's willing. If I get something less expensive now, I could always invest in something better down the road, when I actually learn to play. (I never was good at waiting.)

Well, air guitar is free.

(Thanks, TPS... my first groupie : )

posted by Pips 04 August | 16:45

Matt Umanov is closer to home for you, isn't it? It's definitely an all around better store.

Ugh... really? I fucking hate that store. I have dealt with them for decades, mostly because of their techs. The guys in the repair shop upstairs are sweethearts, generous with their time and very good at what they do. But the assholes in the sales room are complete turds. You could be bleeding about the head and neck before they even noticed you.

I had one sales guy that I kind of liked in there in the early 90s and as a result, I dropped several thousand dollars there, but over the years, they have gotten nothing but poseur wannabe rock stars in there who are more interested in chatting up each other than in providing a little customer service.

The sales people at Manny's and Sam Ash might not know shit, but at least they are friendly and try to be helpful.

If you're looking for a good guitar store downtown, go to Ludlow Guitars (where they are super nice), don't go to Umanov's.

posted by psmealey 04 August | 17:24

The guys in the repair shop upstairs are sweethearts
But the assholes in the sales room

Isn't this the usual?

posted by ethylene 04 August | 18:02

i got my friend a kid's guitar online from some meglomart for her daughter when was born. It was kid sized but tuned like a real guitar. i played with that thing until she was three and she finally was big enough to do whatever she did with it. It played well enough to noodle on just fine, stayed in tune, the high end sounded crappesque but it still, fine overall for noodling and getting use to frets and notes and the neck is not that much smaller then normal. So for around $20 you could get something to play and practice on, download tabs and get started to see how much you like it, then no matter what, give it to a kid or use it in class.
Since you can read music and such, you can get use to the note and chord placements and as it's smaller in alll regards, you're neighbors might hate you less.

posted by ethylene 04 August | 18:14

your (hey i didn't nap, i ate ribs instead)
and you know, acoustics can make a hell of a racket but i bet you have NY solid pre war construction or something, but still there is the porch--

posted by ethylene 04 August | 18:18

I wouldn't get a 3/4 scale unless you're a very small type of person. I had a teacher in college who was 5'2" and she played a full scale Ramirez.

posted by chuckdarwin 04 August | 18:37

Well, she could find some decent usable dealie from any manner of places (ebay, craigslist, moving students, local rags, etc.) before she decided to lay money down on something lasting. This way it's less then a round for just her and jon instead of his whole nights tab.
Me, i got itty bitty little hands that hold all funny on a five string bass it's so thick and barely grasped a classical right. She already reads music.
It's the difference between getting something to figure and fiddle on or get a guitar. What's the priority, price, new toy, actual instrument--
i'd be surprised if some bunny or mefite didn't have an old acoustic unused in a corner they'd get rid of that is roughly in the area.

posted by ethylene 04 August | 18:49

Might have a little trouble with this one.
≡ Click to see image ≡

posted by Pips 04 August | 20:06

That one would be really easy actually. Only a few notes an chord variations.

posted by ethylene 04 August | 20:44

Hey, that's a great idea, Pips.

I agree very much with psmealey about avoiding a classical/nylon string model. Martin and others are now making repro parlor guitars, which are a comfy size, but way outside your price range.

I can recommend the $100 Johnson acoustics. I use one of these for my 'beater' guitar (the cutaway, blue), to take camping and traveling, and it really plays like a better guitar and isn't limiting in any way. The action isn't too high, more on the too low end if anything (1st fret buzz) but you can have the action adjusted when you buy it and get it "set up," which you're usually entitled to with a purchase. They will put new strings on it and adjust the tension to your specifications - if you tell them you're learning and had trouble with high action in the past, they will know what to do.

Have fun!

posted by Miko 04 August | 20:45

Hey, those are nice, Miko. Thanks. I like the cutaway design. I feel reencouraged.

posted by Pips 04 August | 21:31

I didn't say I loved Matt Umanov; I said it's an all-around better store than the shitheaded shitholes on 48th St.

The only guitar store in NYC I'd lift a finger to stop from getting napalmed is Mandolin Bros, which is actually a fantastic guitar shop. When I posted, Pips, I was thinking that it was probably too far of a hike for you. But hell, I used to ride my bike there from 72nd and Riverside, so why should it be too far for you?

The ferry's wonderful this time of year.

posted by ikkyu2 05 August | 00:32

Oh, and I think that both Matt Umanov and Mando Bros are likely to have lower-priced used stuff in stock, Pips; they may just not bother to put that stuff on the website as it generally tends to move pretty quick.

If I were on a budget for an acoustic guitar (the laugh along with this sentence rings very hollow), I would probably be looking for a Seagull. Maybe this Seagull.

I don't think I'd go for a nylon-string. Your fingers will toughen up remarkably quickly.

posted by ikkyu2 05 August | 00:39

Also recommended: 30th Street Guitars. They usually have a pretty good range of used guitar and some diamonds in the rough. Also, check out the nav on the site. It's hysterical.

posted by psmealey 05 August | 07:49

I am not a dedicated player, it varies over different periods, I have a classical YAMAHA 100-CGA and another one (again classical) in Greece that I know I do not remember now what it is. The point I want to make is that when you start playing the tips of your fingers can get very sore, even calouses sometimes. Was it only me? You want very soft frets. I do not know how you can go about testing this, but for me it is very important...

posted by carmina 05 August | 09:34

Thanks ikkyu2 and psmealy... I have lots to check out. Much appreciated.

posted by Pips 05 August | 11:48

I do like that Seagull. I found it on the Umanov site (they were listed as a dealer on the Seagull site, which didn't have prices), and it's listed for $379; not bad, for such a quality instrument.

posted by Pips 05 August | 12:13

It sounds good and plays good, too, Pips, which is the main thing I like about it.

I'd been to 30th St guitars several times, but it's never actually been open when I've gone, despite posted hours saying it should be open and calling beforehand to confirm it was open. I finally gave up on squinting through the window and wrote it off.

posted by ikkyu2 05 August | 15:05

My wife got me a Johnson a few years ago, and I'd pick it up every now and then, but I never really got the hang of it. One problem was the heaviness of the strings--my fingertips would get sore so quickly that I'd never practice very long, or very consistently.

But then I put on some very light strings, and that made a huge difference--suddenly I could practice long enough to actually learn something.

So that's my advice, anyway--get a cheap guitar, but switch out the strings right away.

posted by mrmoonpie 06 August | 10:22

Seagulls are a great option; you get a lot more guitar for the price than just about anywhere else. Or you could try a 3/4-size Baby Taylor: small body, big sound; light strings; narrow, straight neck; relatively cheap. I'll sell you mine for $200 or less. Good to learn on, and a neck like an electric (though the upper bout comes to a lower fret). Fine construction. (Only, if you buy mine, you have to wait 'til next time I go to Maryland to visit my parents... maybe mid-September).

posted by Hugh Janus 06 August | 10:39

Also, if you're getting one online, try Lyon's Music in Louisiana; they don't sell just any guitar the factory sends them, but actually send back many of them, thus acting as a second and much more exact level of quality control than the manufacturer does. They have lots more guitars and makers than are on the website, so it's worth a call if you pick out something specific.

I don't know what their stock is on less expensive guitars, but my brother got a beautiful Gibson J-45 there a few years ago.

posted by Hugh Janus 06 August | 11:11

Thanks, hj. That's very generous of you. I'll give it some thought. (Does it come with lessons? ; )

posted by Pips 06 August | 15:30

Of course. I'd be happy to teach you on any guitar.

posted by Hugh Janus 07 August | 13:10

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