MetaChat - What does Michael Vick

And yes I'm a dog lover and my family had dogs for many years but this is kinda beside the point.

posted by matteo 20 July | 19:16

He needs to be charged with the inability to make people who make more money than he more money. Until then, the beatings will continue.

Not to make light of what he is and does--I'm a dog lover, too--I'm just feeling very cynical today. The love of money truly is the root of all evil, and I've seen far too many example of that just today for me to feel anything but deep and abiding cynicism.

posted by WolfDaddy 20 July | 19:22

Who says they have to fire him? I don't think he's going to get the axe. Kobe Bryant certainly didn't. And a ton of other athletes too, most likely. bah.

posted by sciurus 20 July | 19:24

Don't you think everybody ought to have the benefit of due process? As in being arraigned, tried, and then, and only if found guilty, should they suffer penalties? He's not yet pled or been found guilty of anything, AFAIK.

posted by paulsc 20 July | 19:25

it's sports, dude. If Charlie Manson could hit .300, some team would put a uniform on him. the NFL's no different.

posted by jonmc 20 July | 19:26

'As in being arraigned, tried, and then, and only if found guilty, should they suffer penalties?'

by your standard, had OJ Simpson still been in the NFL during his trial, he wouldn't have been fired and even better, he'd have come back to the game after the verdict. pretty cool!

'Kobe Bryant certainly didn't'

it was very lame, but it was determined he hadn't raped that woman, so, yes, firing him would have been possibly excessive.

and anyway, sadly, very often rape besomes a tragedy of he said she said. but Vick has been caught with his fingers in the dog blood, so to speak.

giovanni: I know, but that's very fucked up.

posted by matteo 20 July | 19:47

yeah, it is, I agree, but Vick can afford hot-shot lawyers who wouldn't be above playing the race card if they had to (however inappropriate it would be in this case) and that terrifies the NFL.

posted by jonmc 20 July | 19:49

What's race got to do with dogfighting?

posted by bmarkey 20 July | 19:55

"...by your standard, had OJ Simpson still been in the NFL during his trial, he wouldn't have been fired and even better, he'd have come back to the game after the verdict. ..."

That's due process. Inconvenient, but superior in most respects to lynch mobs, and trial by newspaper & blog.

posted by paulsc 20 July | 20:02

What's race got to do with dogfighting?

Not a damn thing, but out of desperation they'll claim he's being persecuted due to race. When all else fails lawyers go for the hot buttons.

posted by jonmc 20 July | 20:05

I'm pretty cynical myself, but even I can't see them stretching it that far. Then again I haven't been following the case too closely, so maybe I'm missing something. What I have seen wouldn't seem to leave them a whole lot of wiggle room, though.

posted by bmarkey 20 July | 20:15

If his team cuts him now and it turns out he's innocent, he'll file a grievance against them and get a payday. If he gets convicted and does time, they'll obviously have no choice in the matter. If he's convicted but doesn't do any time he can be suspended for detrimental conduct. If he ends up doing a couple years, his NFL career will probably be over since he's 27 and no one will want him after that. He could still play in canada though.

posted by puke & cry 20 July | 20:18

Also, I heard on the radio that 500 falcon season ticket holders signed a petition saying they were going to show up to training camp with their dogs as a protest. Talk about bad PR.

posted by puke & cry 20 July | 20:22

If his team cuts him now and it turns out he's innocent, he'll file a grievance against them and get a payday.

What I can't fathom is, why would a guy who has a 130 million dollar contract think it was worth the risk to do something like this? Obviously, it wasn't for money... if he did it, did he think he was helping out old hometown buddies? Did he get that big a thrill out of watching starving dogs rip each others' faces off? Or what?

posted by BoringPostcards 20 July | 20:26

I actually should have said "If the league suspends him now and it turns out he's innocent, he'll file a grievance against them". The league can't do anything until he's convicted but I think I heard where the Falcons will put him on a PAID leave so he can deal with this but I can't be sure of that.

What I can't fathom is, why would a guy who has a 130 million dollar contract think it was worth the risk to do something like this? Obviously, it wasn't for money... if he did it, did he think he was helping out old hometown buddies? Did he get that big a thrill out of watching starving dogs rip each others' faces off? Or what?

Just like all the rest of the athletes that are thugs, I don't think they ever think about the consequences of stuff like this of they think they can get away with it because they're star athletes. But who really knows?

posted by puke & cry 20 July | 20:37

Oh, they think about the consequences alright. It's just that every since they showed they were better than the rest of the kids in their school at throwing a football, they've been given a free pass in virtually all disciplinary matters. Why should they expect their world to change now?

posted by Doohickie 20 July | 20:51

What's race got to do with dogfighting?

Everything, if you're a stocky short-haired dog with a big head -- facing abuse not only from violent thugs but also from legislators pandering to media-inspired feeding frenzies.

≡ Click to see image ≡

Sorry. It's a hot-button issue around here.

posted by tangerine 20 July | 21:02

Every pit bull I've known personally, and I've known a few, has been an absolute sweetheart. It's assholes with inadequacy issues that make them into the creatures that get such bad press - dumb fucks who think, for whatever reason, that it's a good idea to train their dogs to be mean. Blame the owner, not the dog.

posted by bmarkey 20 July | 21:18

What I can't fathom is, why would a guy who has a 130 million dollar contract think it was worth the risk to do something like this?

Just chiming in to say that someone with millions of dollars in the bank, women throwing themselves at him and the adulation of just about every sentient human being in his city probably defines the word "risk" differently than you and I do.

posted by jason's_planet 20 July | 22:03

Hello from Virginia. It is my impression that:

A - These awful events happened at a property owned by Michael Vick, and not necessarily with his (proveable) knowledge and/or backing.

B - Dog Fighting is actually usually a White Thing.

C - Hi. . .Marcus? What have you been up to lately?

Impressions only. I could be wrong, but the local authorities are small time, have gotten in the way of the feds, and I'd be very surprised if Michael Vick got anything more than a fine.

And yes it is awful and yes Pit Bulls make fine pets.

posted by rainbaby 20 July | 22:31

A - These awful events happened at a property owned by Michael Vick, and not necessarily with his (proveable) knowledge and/or backing.

If you look at the indictment (it was in the mefi thread i think) you'll see that it's a lot more than just "stuff happened at a place he owns". He's personally linked over and over again, it's pretty damning if true. Like the fact that he held the breading license for the kennel that was responsible for the fighting and that he was mentioned by name by competitors during fights in front of witnesses. As for marcus, I lost track of him after he stomped on that guy or whatever it was he did. He seems to have more temper and less talent than his brother, unfortunately.

posted by puke & cry 20 July | 22:41

I know, puke & cry. I'm just reporting the local-ish zeitgeist.

posted by rainbaby 20 July | 22:49

ah, ok.

posted by puke & cry 20 July | 22:52

Tangerine:

Look at that guy, what a guy that guy is, who's that guy?

posted by Divine_Wino 21 July | 08:19

I agree, but Vick can afford hot-shot lawyers who wouldn't be above playing the race card if they had to (however inappropriate it would be in this case) and that terrifies the NFL.

You don't actually been watch the NFL do you jon. The NFL has had no problems suspending several NFL players who were black. Race has absolutely nothing to do with it. Vick being a star does.

I'd be very surprised if Michael Vick got anything more than a fine.

Maybe so, but the feds wouldn't have gone this far for the chance at a small fine. The odds are against him.

posted by justgary 21 July | 11:04

Strike the been.

posted by justgary 21 July | 11:05

Here's something I posted to my blog:

You know, honestly, as I read this story, I can't help seeing an irony here. Vick is under siege because he "trained dogs to be cruel and violent." Such dogs can't be adopted or integrated back into society because they are dangerous to children and other animals.

Have any of these sports writers ever watched an NFL game? The game is perhaps not cruel, but it is incredibly violent. Sprains, broken bones, broken necks, ruined knees are common from the vicious tackles. The men are trained to be as violent as possible and they are injected with testosterone and other steroids well before they arrive in the NFL as well as in the off-season; these medications, as well as bulking the muscles, cause an increase in behavioral aggression and violence.

Why is it OK to do this to men but not to dogs? Why does Vick take the heat? Dogfighting would seem to be the ideal hobby for an NFL athlete to engage in in his spare time. The guiding principles and values are exactly the same.

I'm annoyed on a selfish level, too. Vick was perhaps the best athlete in the NFL last year. He was certainly the most exciting player to watch, and I was looking forward to seeing his games this year.

I'm deeply divided about this. Training dogs to be vicious killers and then pitting them against each other isn't good and we should discourage it. But I can hardly blame Michael Vick of all people for engaging in it. It's what he knows.

And on a personal level I'm disappointed at the idea that I might not get to watch him play next season, because he truly is a superstar and I think if I had to pick a favorite NFL player to watch he'd top the list in a heartbeat. He's a magnificent athlete.

posted by ikkyu2 22 July | 14:07

20 July 2007