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27 June 2007

speaking of therapists Are there outdoor therapists? →[More:]because one of the main things that's kept me away from therapy (besides some hilariously bad therapists in college) is having to sit in a chair and discuss things.

I hate sitting in chairs at work, where I get paid to do it and anyway it's SO much easier to discuss things when your body is occupied!

Is there such thing as a therapist that will go hiking with you? (I don't think a stroll around the hallways would do it- too public.)
post by: small_ruminant at: 16:46 | 40 comments
I'm waiting for underwater therapists myself.
posted by jonmc 27 June | 16:57
That sounds like a nice idea, but for the type of therapy I'm just starting to practice, I need to be able to clearly see the person's body language, posture, coloring, breathing, etc. Walking around would make most of that difficult to guage. I wouldn't mind, however, sitting casually outdoors.
posted by Specklet 27 June | 16:59
Yeah- that kind of laser focus is something that makes me bolt for the door. Or I spend so much energy worrying about my body language that I sit there like a deer in the headlights. Other people are better at taking it, I guess.
posted by small_ruminant 27 June | 17:03
Ugh and there is NOTHING worse than a therapist who tells you what your body's doing! I HATE that! Yes, thank you, I'm aware of it and already suitibly mortified. Jeez.
posted by small_ruminant 27 June | 17:04
It seems like being out for a walk would be the therapy itself? Reconnecting with nature is definitely one of the recommended ways to work through depression or anxiety.

It feels to me like the therapist would be redundant. On the other hand, googling "Nature Therapy" is turning up a handful of institutes that seem to do close to what you're talking about.

"Ecopsychology" also turns up some stuff; a list of practitioners in CA.

(And I *love* this idea, I'm just not sure how it would be put into practice.)
posted by occhiblu 27 June | 17:05
Sit up straight. You're stunting your ruminant.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson 27 June | 17:05
Yeah, a walk outdoors is indeed therapy in and of itself...

I'm happy to say I have learned not to point thaout folks' body language, but to simply observe. And it's really not obvious that I'm watching for all those things, I swear! I'm just starting out, but so far ALL the people I've worked with have mentioned how casual and relaxing the whole thing is. (I can't take credit for that, though, it's the nature of the particular kind of therapy.)
posted by Specklet 27 June | 17:08
Article on ecotherapy, though the "being in nature" part doesn't seem to include a therapist. It does mention agricultural therapy, in which mental health patients can go work on a farm, which is awesome.

We're talking about various play therapies in one of my courses. I could kinda see some of this fitting in well with some of those theories -- the idea that giving people (especially kids) something to do, rather than just look at you and talk, is worthwhile. We've been talking about combining the play with talking, so, for example, draw a picture and then talk about it, or work with clay and then use the figure as a stand-in for the person you're mad at, etc.

Would you see using the setting itself for work? Or just as a more relaxed setting in which to talk?
posted by occhiblu 27 June | 17:10
Yeah, uh... just what type of "therapy" are you practicing these days, Spec?
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson 27 June | 17:12
'Cause I've got this... thing, I've been meaning to see somebody about...
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson 27 June | 17:13
Flo, for the last time, it's only 'art' if you do it in a museum. On the stret, it's indecent exposure.
posted by jonmc 27 June | 17:18
Hee hee!
posted by Specklet 27 June | 17:23
Oooh, this course looks cool.

s_r, you've inspired me! Now I have to track down some continuing education credit courses in this!!
posted by occhiblu 27 June | 17:25
haha. thanks IRFH.

occhiblu- well, I know a guy who does it for teenage boys. He's sensible enough not to make a 15 year old discuss emotions in a therapist office chair. The ecopsychology folks look a little woo-woo but I'll research- thanks for the link. I hadn't heard of them before.

I already use nature as a destresser but it's not great for figuring root causes out. It's activity I'm after though. Probably painting a house or digging ditches would be just as good.
posted by small_ruminant 27 June | 17:28
Does pouring out your troubles to a bartender count as a kind of hydrotherapy? I mean, if you have ice in your drink and everything...
posted by jonmc 27 June | 17:29
oo. must learn to preview.

Specklet I swear I wasn't accusing you of any such thing!

It was an unprovoked rant inspired by hanging out in Berkeley, where everyone is an armchair therapist and does that sort of thing.
posted by small_ruminant 27 June | 17:30
but it's not great for figuring root causes out

Yes, that requires digging.

I'm joking but I'm not.... I think it would be so totally awesome to physically enact some of these metaphors.

Root causes, digging down, flowering, shadows, planting seeds of thought, and on and on.

I do think that any physical activity can be therapeutic, but I think combining the physical activity with actual explicit work in nature would be really awesome.

I'm seriously bouncing in my chair right now about how cool some of this stuff would be to add to a therapist's toolbox....

Though the coffee I just had might be at least part of the cause of the bouncing...

(And I hadn't heard of any of this until digging around after seeing your question.)
posted by occhiblu 27 June | 17:32
Probably painting a house or digging ditches would be just as good.


Hey - I run a Chore Therapy center at my house. I would only charge you 50 bucks an hour to whitewash my fence.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson 27 June | 17:33
HA!
posted by occhiblu 27 June | 17:42
Yes, that requires digging.

I'm joking but I'm not.... I think it would be so totally awesome to physically enact some of these metaphors.

Root causes, digging down, flowering, shadows, planting seeds of thought, and on and on.


That would be awesome! As long as you didn't mention it. Or mentioned it like it was a joke (like you just did). I could see some over-earnest people with no humor turning it into something weighty and dreadful.

Again, I'm probably only visualizing this because I live in Berkeley, where having a sense of humor -esp. about self-help- is a frivolous and shameful condition.

On an unrelated note, has anyone else noticed that their spelling is getting worse as they get older? anyone?
posted by small_ruminant 27 June | 17:46
Occhiblu please please become the first therapist to use manual labor in your therapy sessions!

If you do, you'll be the mother of modern therapy. You'll start a trend, I swear!
posted by small_ruminant 27 June | 17:48
Also, any types of therapy that can be done entirely through sarcasm and cheap shots- I'd probably be up for trying that one, too. Gotta stick with what you're comfortable with, I figure. Why should you have to learn a whole new language just for therapy?
posted by small_ruminant 27 June | 17:50
Would save me a lot in office costs. "Today we will be meeting at the Bootjack trailhead of Mt. Tam. Bring hiking boots and a chainsaw."
posted by occhiblu 27 June | 17:50
"Today we will be meeting at the Bootjack trailhead of Mt. Tam. Bring hiking boots and a chainsaw."

Depending on just how disturbed your clients are that could end really badly.
posted by jonmc 27 June | 17:52
any types of therapy that can be done entirely through sarcasm and cheap shots

Hee. Stay away from Freudians, or anyone who focuses on cutting through defense mechanisms. :-)

Slightly related: I was so happy recently to find a therapist who laughs -- like, full on laughs -- in my sessions. I was worried that once I got professional, I was gonna have to get all serious and earnest and weighty and dreadful. I really worried it would be unavoidable.

On preview: I actually was just reading a book by a children's therapist who had a great deal of success doing woodworking (including big table saws and things) with disturbed kids. She said no one ever trusted them with that sort of stuff, so they were both super-careful with the privilege and super-delighted with the process.
posted by occhiblu 27 June | 17:54
any types of therapy that can be done entirely through sarcasm and cheap shots


I would be a God.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson 27 June | 17:57
occhiblu, it would be a relief to have a therapist who laughs! And the woodworking thing makes total sense to me.

Chainsaw use does not facilitate discussion though.
posted by small_ruminant 27 June | 18:00
Chainsaw use does not facilitate discussion though.

Hmm, that is true. But I have a whole "How do you overcome obstacles in your path?" spiel ready to go! Sigh.
posted by occhiblu 27 June | 18:07
you'll have to convey it through interpretive dance
posted by small_ruminant 27 June | 18:08
I'm not sure I'd want to be making any unpredictable flailing-of-limb movements around someone with a chainsaw....
posted by occhiblu 27 June | 18:16
with the right costume I'm sure you'd come off as unthreatening.
posted by small_ruminant 27 June | 18:18
Also, any types of therapy that can be done entirely through sarcasm and cheap shots- I'd probably be up for trying that one, too. Gotta stick with what you're comfortable with, I figure.


You might like Albert Ellis.

I attended a few of his Friday night open therapy sessions at his institute here in NYC when he was in good health.

They were a trip and a half. I paid five bucks to see a nonagenarian up on the stage, ripping peoples' defenses to shreds, making sexual references and using the verb FUCK as loudly and as often as the conversation permitted.

It's a shame he's almost dead. I think he'd be exactly what you're looking for.
posted by jason's_planet 27 June | 18:53
I would only go to therapy if it was conducted by House.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson 27 June | 18:56
Also, any types of therapy that can be done entirely through sarcasm and cheap shots- I'd probably be up for trying that one, too. Gotta stick with what you're comfortable with, I figure.


You might like Albert Ellis.

I attended a few of his Friday night open therapy sessions at his institute here in NYC when he was in good health.

They were a trip and a half. I paid five bucks to see a nonagenarian up on the stage, ripping peoples' defenses to shreds, making sexual references and using the verb FUCK as loudly and as often as the conversation permitted.

It's a shame he's almost dead. I think he'd be exactly what you're looking for.
posted by jason's_planet 27 June | 18:57
It seems like being out for a walk would be the therapy itself? Reconnecting with nature is definitely one of the recommended ways to work through depression or anxiety.

I completely agree with this. My mental health is better when I'm exercising.

Occhi, do you think walking outside can replace traditional talk therapy as an effective treatment?
posted by LoriFLA 27 June | 19:50
do you think walking outside can replace traditional talk therapy as an effective treatment?

there's something to this. half (sometimes it feels like more) of what i do as cycling coach to collegiate racers could probably be filed somehow under 'therapy'.

i mean what else is there to do on a two or three hour ride than have them unload about what's on their mind with school / homework / relationships / life?

i'm just a rolling bartender, basically, tho the shots i pull involve physical exhaustion, not booze.
posted by lonefrontranger 27 June | 22:24
moonbird (lapsed (?) metachatter/counselor/grad student (?)) does this. Walks or plays ball with his charges. It sounds like a great idea to me, because, some of us think with our guts or bodies or emotions or whatever we name it and not with our brains.

I think the point is to distract the body-brain enough to let the brain-brain say what it needs to say. Which mine can't really do sitting on a couch and talking. Walking around? Maybe. s_r, I bet you can find someone, depending on where you are, how hard you look, etc.
posted by rainbaby 27 June | 22:27
Huh. Albert Ellis is interesting. I'd never heard of him. I don't think he'd work for me- I already have a pretty good idea when I'm being irrational.
posted by small_ruminant 27 June | 22:28
Lori, I'm not claiming any special therapist knowledge (and I'm not yet licensed), so I wouldn't take what I say as gospel, but... I'm not sure walking in nature could replace therapy, just because they kind of serve different needs, but it seems like it sure could supplement it, or ameliorate depression for people who weren't in therapy. I mean, I think therapy treats certain aspects of depression, and I'm guessing being out in nature treats other aspects of depression; together, it seems like it'd be awesome, and either one singly would certainly help.

Is that CYA enough? :-)

Some of the articles I linked above talk about petitioning the British healthcare system to recognize walking in nature as an effective treatment for depression. I would certainly support such a measure. I think there have also been studies showing exercise to be as effective as therapy in treating depression?

I was reading an interesting essay today that disdained the Western scientific need to know how something works, rather than just accepting the fact that it does work. I think these sorts of things may fall into that category just now.
posted by occhiblu 28 June | 00:48
I'll volunteer, next time I'm in your area.
posted by Eideteker 30 June | 10:21
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