It may have been more Haley than Malcolm, but I loved reading that book when I was in school. Hope they're still assigning it.

Holy crap. The things people do to their hair...

I had to get my son-in-law to explain to me just what nappy hair was to begin with. I doubt Imus knows what it is, come to think of it.

I never heard of a conk, either. I just googled it and apparently it all started with Cab Calloway.

I love this book.

It is indeed a great book.

I'd noticed rappers (and Bodie from The Wire) wearing what I now know to be Do-rags, and often wondered what they were. Now I'm even more interested. Some might be wearing them to keep cornrows neat. But it could also be an ironic appropriation of the original use (protecting a conk or similar). I've noticed a lot of wearers have shaven heads, which suggests the latter.

What a bizarre world we live in that people attach such importance to hair, or appearance for that matter. I mean, I know that sexual attraction is the heart of survival of the species and all that, but it is ridiculous that people go through that kind of pain to appear more attractive.

What a bizarre world we live in that people attach such importance to hair, or appearance for that matter. I mean, I know that sexual attraction is the heart of survival of the species and all that, but it is ridiculous that people go through that kind of pain to appear more attractive.

You can say THAT again.

Come on, dg. It's not about hair, or looking attractive, it's about looking white. It's about seeking "respect" (I put that in scare quotes because I doubt it even leads to genuine approval) from a class that rules you. This is why Malcolm X regards the episode as significant. Looking attractive has nothing to do with it. "The ironic thing is that I have never heard any woman, white or black, express any admiration for a conk."

I'm sure this is why Wedge posted it, the reference to "nappy headed hos" is a clue. It's not just any old random insult, it's saying "how dare these women look black! Successful people should at least try to look white".

The fact that neither you nor bunnyfire seems to get it is quite depressing.

On preview, heh, you won't be able to delete the extra one now.

Yeah, true, GeckoDundee - that is really what I (more or less) meant, but wrote it badly - I wasn't meaning to suggest that this is something people do only to attract the opposite sex (although that's pretty much what I wrote, I know), but that they do it to make themselves better fit their perception of what society says they should look like. Society says that, in order to fit in and be attractive, you should resemble this *holds up picture of WASP* as closely as you can. This ignores the fact that people of all shapes, sizes and colours are attractive as they are and that, even though it doesn't attract any more positive attention, people will persist in trying to make themselves over in what they are told is the right way to look.

Hmm, that doesn't really help, does it?

Yeah, I could delete the double comment, but I would have to delete bunnyfire's as well, to avoid misunderstandings, and I try and avoid deleting them when they have been referenced. Not sure why it keeps happening lately.

I'm sure this is why Wedge posted it, the reference to "nappy headed hos" is a clue.... The fact that neither you nor bunnyfire seems to get it is quite depressing.

Count me among those who didn't get it. I thought he was just trolling.

On the contrary, dg, I see exactly what you meant now, and am consequently much less depressed.

If Wedge was trolling, the joke's on him as that link is a brilliant way of helping people who don't understand the "fuss" to get into other people's shoes for a moment. I didn't think he was though: I seem to have a higher opinion of Wedge than some, but then I don't frequent #tapes or #bunnies. Whether that makes me more or less accurate in my opinion of him I don't know.

The real message, which still applies today:
they will even violate and mutilate their God-created bodies to try to look "pretty"


It really has nothing to do with black vs. white. I liked this read.

To clarify what I said earlier, I think it was an interesting read that is both timely and of historical significance, and I think there was probably an interesting discussion to be had about the whole notion of "you must look white in order to succeed."

I also think it could have been presented in some way that made it sound like an interesting and timely read that invited discussion.

The "nappy-headed fro" reference set my bullshit siren off, especially given that Wedge likes to stir things up, and especially given the conversations we've already had about Don Imus.

I'm of two minds on this kind of thing. As someone who's been accused of looking weird, I'm 100% in favor of people doing anything to their bodies they want if it's what they truly desire. On the other hand I cant deny that the fried hair thing is an obvious manifestation of wanting to look whiter. And wedge does have a history of trolling.

Isn't that three minds?

(i may or may not be a Known Troll, but why would you let that spoil your enjoyment of an otherwise entertaining and insightful essay? rather than moderate the thread, i thought it better to let the discussion take its own organic course and for folks to sorta riff on that or whatever.)

and jonmc, i dont see your two or three minds as necessarily being dialectically opposed. "to thine own self be true", and all of that. but to what extent do the "media" play in constructing, and/or creating a demand for, these social norms? are we placing too much value in the perceived "beauty" of our furry meatbags to begin with?

and what's up with white people? are they awesome or wack?