I am completely oblivious to the advances of women.

Most men are. This is because women are generally way too subtle.

Yeah, now that I think about it, the majority of the girlfriends I've had basically beat me over the head with I want you.

Although, I knew my first girlfriend was into me before even she realized it, so who the hell knows?

If you were oblivious, you wouldn't have noticed her looking at you.

Women have made a great many advances in the past century. They can vote, hold a job (outside of the home), and be licensed to operate a vehicle. Some of them can even drive!

They have thumbs now too, I hear.

Yeah, now that I think about it, the majority of the girlfriends I've had basically beat me over the head with I want you.

The confusion arises because the subtle female signal for 'I find you attractive' is perilously similar to the signal for 'you are a dork and your fly is open.'

amro's point - take it! The problemhere is not that you were oblivious, but that you didn't up the ante.

I have heard that 'beat me over the head' line from a lot of men. Could it be that men are taking themselves out of the game before it begins, by not having the confidence to think 'maybe she likes me?'

This, I posit, is often at the root of the 'women don't like nice guys' thing. What's attractive isn't niceness or non-niceness, just confidence. But often the nice men don't seem to have the simple confidence to think that maybe the girl is looking at them. And the jerks are often quite oversupplied with confidence.

Because nice guys respect women's personal space and privacy enough not to hit on them on the train. Another victory for righteousness.

That would the crux of the issue, I suppose. I'm not the kind of guy that chats up random people - in fact, usually I find it pretty off-putting when someone randomly starts talking to me. So, to try to do it to someone else is, well... weird.

Up the ante¿ How about a howdy¿

Now you'll have to search Missed Connections at the craiger. If you'll 'up the ante'...or will that be a getting her bat out.

"Up the ante' can mean just smile! It's nothing more than a game of catch and you don't have to be all swaggery or smooth. Just smile. Maybe she'll smile back. Maybe she'll say something. Maybe she'll look away, pull a book from her bag, and studiously avoid eye contact until her stop. Either way, you did your part, and you learned somethng.

SOmetimes you just have those little interactions and then walk away without anything much proceeding from them, but feeling a little boost all day. That's nice too.

Respect is very important to me, but it's not disrespectful to quietly smile at someone.

When you're looking, you're looking. Don't forget, women also usually have some ways to discourage interest they don't want. It's when that discouragement is ignored that things get disrespectful.

But often the nice men don't seem to have the simple confidence to think that maybe the girl is looking at them.

I completely missed my chance at a relationship with a smart, funny, talented and dead sexy Australian girl because of this when I was in high school. And th' wife and I were essentially procured for each other by a mutual friend because neither of us was capable of making a move on anybody.

Yes, it's tough to be shy. It only looks easy in retrospect - when you realize objectively how easy it is to make connections with other people.

I recently read some study or other where men were assigned to get a certain number of women's signatures on something, or some similar proof of contact. Predictably, some guys got very few and some got a lot. The ones who got a lot weren't better looking on average, or any other differentiating outward feature -- the difference was that the men who made more successful contacts simply talked to a far greater number of women than the others. They got shot down more often, too! But in the end, they averaged much higher simply because they made more tries, increasing the likelihood of a good reception.

Not that I think the onus should always fall on men. It's a two-way street. But you both have to be on the street with your heads up, looking forward.

I really don't think this is a gender issue thing, I think it's the human condition.

Do you like me? Check yes or no. It's a constant stressor for everyone, isn't it? Unless people have some sort of disordered thinking that Everybody/Nobody wants me, right?

If you're not the kind of person to strike up a conversation with a stranger, that doesn't make you a bad or unattractive or cluesles person.

Appreciate the little boost the experience gave you and take away some confidence from it, please don't kick yourself.

what rainbaby said.

Oh, I wouldn't say I'm kicking myself over it. I guess the fact that I actually noticed something this time made me realize how little I do notice things.

I suppose I should learn a lesson from all this...

Dittoing rainbaby, because I am also oblivious to the advances of the opposite sex. I've chalked it up to a low confidence thing, that little voice inside listing the hundreds of reasons men wouldn't be interested in me. The funny guy in line for coffee? At the grocery store? Thought he was just being nice rather than flirting, as my friend so adamantly insists.

Just don't miss the message if a woman walks up, kisses you, and tells you she loves you.

Could it be that men are taking themselves out of the game before it begins, by not having the confidence to think 'maybe she likes me?' it's rude and/or sexist to stare at or hit on her right here on this train?

That's always been the killer for me. Having been raised and educated by good feminists, I always assume any flirting is treating the woman like a sex object. Whether she's a stranger on a train or not, I'm afraid of coming off like some ass-pinching jock cassanova douchebag. That's not 100% of it, but add that to general male idiocy and fear of rejection, etc, and it always used to put me over the top. That's why I took to online dating so well. You always know, right up front, that everybody's there because they're single and looking.

oops, that was supposed to say "...by thinking it's rude and/or sexist..."

rhapsodie says it all for me, I couldn't have said it better.

Miko speaks the truth.

Just don't miss the message if a woman walks up, kisses you, and tells you she loves you.

I was in Versailles and a French girl walked up to me and her opening gambit was to ask me for my phone number (in English). I just stared at her, stunned, and she said "because I love you." I laughed it off.

Could it be that men are taking themselves out of the game before it begins, by thinking it's rude and/or sexist to stare at or hit on her right here on this train?

This makes me sad, because I think Miko's right, it's only rude if you (1) aren't polite in your approach and (2) ignore her refusals to talk to you.

In other words, if you approach someone with respect, actual respect of that person as a human being with her own valid needs and wants, then it can't really be rude.

*She* could be rude back to you, or think that you're being rude, but that means that she's rude, not you. It also means that you probably didn't want to date her, anyway. :)

Part of me feels like the "I can't talk to women now because of feminism!" thing is just the flipside of being overprotective patriarchs -- now you realize you may be part of the group of people who's a problem (which is progress, and I don't mean to minimize that, and I think it's a good stance to start from), but you still feel the need to protect women (from yourselves!) rather than engage them.

That is, of course, rather overstating the case, and I don't mean that you, scarabic, are necessarily thinking that way. But I do think that some forms of "chivalry" are not much more than keeping women up on pedestals so that they can't really be full human beings.

Though I do understand the impulse. Interacting with full human beings, regardless of gender, is scary; they're unpredictable and they can reject you. It's a hell of a lot harder to put yourself out there and interact without being propped up by traditional gender roles that automatically give each party something to do, and rules for how to respond. But I think, too, that it's ultimately more rewarding.

Yes, women sometimes do the same thing to men. Your mileage may vary. Offer not valid in certain states. Coverage limited to the first 100,000 miles or five years, whichever comes first. See your dealer for details.