Apartment 1: The absolute perfect lay-out; really, if I were designing my dream apartment, this would be it. The problem is the neighborhood; it's not bad, just totally blah. We basically would not be able to do anything social without driving to it, which really bothers me. And public transportation, while available, is all bus-based (not near the streetcars or BART), which also bothers me. It is, however, located in an area really convenient for work/school commuting. Also, though, in foggy part of town, so it's kind of cold and cloudy a great deal of the time. But, the apartment itself is pretty sunny, and it's just... shiny. The floors are all polished and pretty, the windows are clean, it's huge... it seems like it would be a lovely place to come home to.

Apartment 2: The absolute perfect neighborhood; whenever I've walked through it, I've thought, "I want to live here!" Easy walking distance to cafes, cool restaurants, organic shops, etc, but in the nice residential part of the neighborhood, so it's pretty quiet as well. The problem is the apartment itself; it's ok, but it's both smaller and older than the other place. I suspect we'll end up getting in each other's hair a lot more here -- though it'd be easier to leave this apartment and go do something, because there's stuff nearby to go do.

It's not a definite that we'll get either place, so to some extent I'm stressing a slight bit before I need to, but the woman in charge of Apt. 1 does seem on the verge of offering it... help???

Apartment 2 sounds like the better deal overall to me, but it's important to me to live in a neighborhood that has lots of good stuff within walking distance and that is easily accessible by public transit. Are there other apartments available in apartment 2's neighborhood? Do you have time to look some more? I would go absolutely nuts living in the first neighborhood.

Right now, I'm living in something similar to Apartment 1, so I'd say Apartment 2. Especially because it's cold and I'm sick of the long hike to get fruit at the market :-(

The first apartment definitely has necessities close by -- a decent supermarket, a Trader Joe's, etc. It's just not... funky or neighborhood-y.

And no, I doubt we'll find anything else in the Apartment 2 neighborhood. It's mostly single-family homes, or long-term tenants. I almost never see listings for rentals over there.

Wait for a better apartment in Neighborhood #2. Where's #1? Richmond? Sunset? #2 I'm guessing Cole Valley.

I'm living in Apartment #1 (closets everywhere! OMG!) so from here the grass looks greener in from of Apartment #2.

#1 is ... I don't even know what the neighborhood is called. Up above the panhandle, right across the street from USF (where I go to school). Kinda sorta near the Richmond.

#2 is Dolores, just south of the park, up in Liberty Heights or Guerrero Heights or whatever they call that area. "Pretty victorians on hills, walk to the Mission and the Castro and Noe Valley" area.

Also, did I mention we need garage parking, and have a cat? When I say "I don't think we'll find another apartment, I'm pretty serious on that one... :)

Also, when I say "perfect layout," I do mean that it's the perfect layout for two introverts who are about to move in together and don't quite know how that's going to work.... so I guess I'm kinda worried we'll kill each other in the first place because we won't want to leave the apartment (but it's big enough we could totally hide from each other!), while I'm worried that we'll kill each other in the second place because we won't be able to get out of each other's hair (but it's close enough to other stuff that we'll be able to get out).

Sigh. Relationship fun with occhiblu: Where will we be least likely to kill each other?

Apartment 1 sounds gorgeous. There's something to be said about living in a lovely environment. It's good for the soul. If I were working from home or entertained a lot, I would choose Apartment 1.

I can see the appeal of apartment 2. I suppose it boils down to what's important to you. If you're used to be in walking distance to shops and cafes and such, you may miss the lifestyle.

Are you homebody introverts? Then I would say #1.

With the fears you mentioned, having a comfortable living space is SO important.

Will you feel trapped in by your four walls...

Or will you feel trapped by your neighborhood?

I've almost always opted for neighborhood over layout, and regretted it when I didn't.

Having to go out of your way for leisure activities can be a big pain... that goes double if a grocery store or shopping center is not within a reasonable distance. I rented a brand new loft in a fairly desolate downtown area for a year and it was an absolute PITA to drive a minimum 30 minutes just to fill up the fridge or get some refreshments somewhere that wasn't a gas station. I would weigh those options against your potential enjoyment of the living space... after all, it is only temporary and you might get spoiled by all the shiny new surfaces.

I'd lean #2, but it sort of sounds like you lean #1 and are trying to talk yourself out of it.

Yeah, dano, I was deadset against it yesterday afternoon, then had a mini breakdown about the whole process, and now I'm leaning that way... in part because SF is so freakin' small that it's not like I'd be moving to the middle of nowhere, even though I keep acting as if I were.

I think part of it is that I have this conception of myself as someone who's really out and about in the city, which is true to some extent, but I also spend a lot of time in my apartment. And when I do go out, a lot of time I'm on the bus anyway... I guess it's more that the first apartment doesn't fit the image I *like* to have of myself, though it quite likely does fit my actual lifestyle in a lot of ways, if that makes any sense. I mean, I'm looking at working two jobs, one of which may very well stay as telecommuting from home, and going to school full-time... I'm not sure where all this freetime I think I'll be spending at cafes is coming from, really.

I'm leaning towards #2. I had a huge and beautiful apartment (fireplace even) in a meh neighborhood, and last spring I moved into a teeny place with no counter space in the kitchen, but in my favorite neighborhood. Never regretted it.

But! I'll bet whatever happens will be Just Fine!

#2 sounds like much the better option! I can only go by my own experience, but beautiful places in boring locations have almost always failed to satisfy. In addition, it's much harder to motivate to get out and do cool things when you've got to organize yourself to drive some distance.

You two will have an adjustment either way, but being able to step outside your front door into an active pedestrian world of other people and things to do and see will always help you reset your outlook.

I'm highly biased; I've always worked really hard to find living arrangements that offered things to do within walking distance. There is no shortage of wonderful apartments in terrible locations, but there is a shortage of wonderful locations, and the hustle-bustle and color of daily life passing by is really important to me. As is the ability to get a coffee and a Times without too terribly much effort on a Sunday morning.

I would definitely go with #1. I bet there are plenty of great little out-of-the-way places in the neighborhood that you won't find until you live there.

If #1 is considerably closer to school/work, I'd go with that one. Aside from all the other things you like about it, it will give you time, which is a pretty precious commodity.

#1 is about a two-minute walk to class; #2 is a 10-15min. walk to a 30min. bus ride to a 5min. walk to class. Since I'm currently looking for jobs, I'm not sure where I'll end up for that, but it's probably a wash, with #1 being maybe a bit easier for getting downtown. #1 saves ikkyu a lot of time commuting.

#1 is basically near all the useful places, but not the fun places. #2 is near all the fun places, but not really anywhere near the useful places.

ARGH, I say!

I'm appreciating the comments, though. Even if y'all have had me vacillating even more today than I was yesterday!

...the perfect layout for two introverts who are about to move in together and don't quite know how that's going to work...

See, here's the deal. You're going to have the moving-in adjustment no matter where you move. It could be a 2,500 square-foot house; you'd still have to figure out the "OMG, he's always in my space" stuff.

Go for #2, if those are truly the only two options. No matter what kind of space you move into, you're going to make it "home," and you'll always be happy to come home to it. (Unless Ikkyu is being a butt -- in which case, let me know and I'll make fun of him publicly.)

Home is where you wake up in the morning. It's much better if that place is in a neighborhood that actually makes you want to go outside.

Unless Ikkyu is being a butt -- in which case, let me know and I'll make fun of him publicly.

Hee, no. He's being lovely. I think I'm being mostly lovely. We're just trying to talk all this through, and we both keep switching over to the other person's viewpoint and talking ourselves into and out of things, and I've lost track of whose objections are whose at this point.

No matter what kind of space you move into, you're going to make it "home," and you'll always be happy to come home to it.

Also, I guess this is kind of where I'm currently at, and I'm not finding it true -- I love my current neighborhood, and I'd stay here forever if I could. It's perfect and cute and friendly and I love the guy who runs the organic corner store and I love my dry cleaners and my favorite cafe is half a block away and there's public transportation everywhere and I love being in this neighborhood.

But I really hate my apartment. I like coming back here because I like being at home, but I hate the other people in my building, I hate that I'm on the ground floor, I hate that I feel like people can look in my windows whenever they want to, I hate the layout of this place because it makes it hard to entertain, I hate the noisy upstairs neighbors with a passion I can't even begin to describe. I hate that it doesn't get very much light. It's never really felt like home, and that's starting to wear on me.

So maybe I'm already in an apartment #2 equivalent... hmmm.

Well there's always the old "flip a coin and see which side you end up rooting for" trick.

I'm still pretty much secretly hoping that we get offered one and not the other, so that this decision is taken out of our hands entirely. But maybe I'll go dig up some quarters...

Let me take an opposite tack:

I used to live in a crappy rental house in the coolest neighborhood in my town. I now live in a good house that is NOT in a cool neighborhood but IS right down the street from my church, right around the corner from my gym, and five minutes from the mall.

You can always access the cool places, but life is lived in the necessary places. A good home layout, especially for an introvert, is a necessity.

I vote #1. If you turn out hating it, you can always move later. (Just your description of getting to class sealed the choice for me, btw.)

Move to North Beach and be done with it :)

Seriously, 2.

Heh. North Beach is the one neighborhood that I love that I'd never, ever, ever want to live in.

Really? How come?

Toooooo many tourists. Absolutely impossible to navigate by car -- narrow streets on ridiculous hills and no parking anywhere. Extremely limited public transportation options, and far enough away from every other area of the city that getting anywhere else would be a huge hassle.

I stayed in North Beach the first time I was looking for housing here. I completely adore walking around that neighborhood, and sitting with a glass of wine at Vesuvius and watching all the neon light up as the sun set and seeing all the people walking in and out of City Lights made me feel like I was 100% right in moving to San Francisco, because I couldn't imagine a more perfect place to be right then, but my word was getting around a bitch.

I should amend that to: "Absolutely impossible for me to navigate by car." I know lots of people like driving there, I just don't do very well with city driving in general, let alone city driving + insane crowds + really steep hills + double-parked delivery vans + narrow streets + diagonal cross streets + garlic wafting through the air.

It's the garlic that does me in, really.

You'll be telling me next you sit in the anti-cilantro crowd. You need some rollerblades.

While I was in SF I grabbed Fris for her first trip to Alcatraz (don't worry, i brought her back) and we stopped off in NB for some food. It was the first place in SF I thought would be a good place to live if I ever decided to relocate.

Like I said, I love the neighborhood, I'd just not want to live there. It feels like its own little city, only marginally connected to SF.

Which I kind of like, I guess. It always feels like I'm traveling to a foreign place when I go over there, and I guess I like to keep that feeling of discovery, of having a day-vacation spot in which I can spend all day wandering around and finding new cafes and people-watching. For me, I think, living there would actually ruin some of that; I think I'd start seeing all the crowds as annoying interlopers rather than energizing.

I don't know. Part of this is also coming from knowing someone who did live there, who just felt like it was dead there. Plus, all his friends lived elsewhere in the city, and no one was willing to go through the hassle of going to his place, so he was always having to haul himself around to meet up with us.

There's an extremely bad, but somehow still endearing, movie called "North Beach" that I think is available from NetFlix here. If you can find it over there, you might enjoy it.

(And I love cilantro!)

I think that's the beauty of SF is the neighbourhoody feel. Reminded me a little of Only Forward. I understand what you're saying about your friend thinking it dead. Im guessing a lot of yuppies, young couples live there, so it would feel quite lonely if you were on your own or flatsharing.

Occhiblu, I hope you both get the place you want. Don't forget the dark basement where Ikkyu2 (I'm assuming that's who you're moving in with) has a basement for all his under-the-counter electrical Frankenstein brain experiments.

*bzzzz-crackle. all the lights go out in SF, nary a sound except for the cackling of the white-coated madman downstairs.*

Oh no! We totally forgot to include "Basement space for mad science experiments" on our list of requirements!!! Now we'll have to start all over! Argh argh argh!

;)

I vote number 1. Truly, I could hear the longing in your voice. So to speak.

I'd go with #1 as well. Happy immediate surroundings trump happy non-immediate surroundings, especially if you spend lots of time at home.

But I'm probably biased because my family has outgrown our current house and we can't afford to sell and buy something bigger. Unless we want an even longer commute and I definitely do not!

Thanks for the advice, guys.

occhiblu said her bit; I didn't say much about mine, because I'm a very private person.

I'm such an introvert that it looks pathological to most people, I'm sure. Miko's comment: "being able to step outside your front door into an active pedestrian world of other people and things to do and see will always help you reset your outlook." made me laugh, because she's right - it resets me into a full on panic mode. I know that most people aren't that way and that occhiblu in particular is always out and about when I talk to her on the cell phone!

I do love to go out and meet people and have drinks and have fun times, but my energy comes from the time I spend in the Fortress of Solitude. On the other hand it's important that we both be happy. I'm hoping Eamon's right and that we can find a way to make this neighborhood work. The apartment is actually *on the campus* of Lisa's school so it makes sense that way too.

Mudpuppie! I reserve the right to be a butt at specified times and locations not to exceed 5% of net interaction times! Is this satisfactory to your chickens?!

You guys, I know moving is tres stressful, and a fucking bitch, and all the uncertainty while you are looking and trying to decide is very unsettling (because I'm going through all that right now, and have a glorious history of past moves), but let's remember the one certainly fabulous thing about renting - you can always move later.

#1 is sounding good because the combination of great physical space and less commute is pretty compelling for the situation you are in right now. In a couple of years, you may find that a juicier neighborhood is more of a draw for what you want at that point... or maybe not... but you're not locked in by mortgages and property values, etc., so let that freedom soothe your frazzled nerves a bit.

At least you have it narrowed down at this point, and I'm jealous! (Going to look at three, maybe four places today, me.)

taz wins, because she is using the exact same logic I just used when telling ikkyu to go ahead and take apartment #1. (Partly also because I am supposed to be in the midst of finding an internship for school, and I haven't even started that yet, and I just needed to stop looking at apartments and start looking at community mental health centers. Probably for myself as well as my work!)

jrossi also wins, because her idea to flip a coin and see what I was hoping for made me realize that every time someone in this thread told me to go for #2, I thought, "But but but, they don't understand why #1 is so great!" And every time someone voted for #1, I thought, "Yes, exactly!"

Also, everyone else wins many many many whuffles for helping, and putting up with my incessant indecisive nattering on this topic.

Lease on apartment #1 will be signed on Friday morning. None of yous do nothing to jinx us between now and then -- think shiny happy apartment thoughts! Whee!

Oh man, here I was ready to vote for #1 and you're already there! Yay!

For some reason I never "got" that ikkyu2 was an introvert. And hey, "pathologically shy" is my phrase; I invented it years ago!
:^P