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05 February 2007

My Zen weekend [More:]My experience this past weekend was immensely instructive and valuable. It’s really difficult to explain what I learned, as it was really more of an experiential phenomenon than an intellectual one. I’ll begin with a brief description of what went on.

I arrived and checked in around 5:00 on Friday. The building was a former elementary school, built in 1970, on a hillside in rural Oregon. The place itself was quite beautiful, and very quiet. Everyone there for the retreat had a meal together, and we were then instructed on what would happen. The rest of the weekend was spent in silence, with the exception of chants, including formal meals. We got up at 5:00 am and spent a couple hours in meditation in the hall. Then, work duty, then more meditation, then lunch. After a break, more meditation, dinner, meditation, dharma talk then bed. Sunday repeated for the most part he pattern. The meditation sessions were in the main hall, and were told basically how to focus our minds on the present experience and remove all else.

I realized that Zen Buddhism is fundamentally about practice, and to a lesser extent about substantive concepts. The idea is to be completely ‘present’ at all times, and not distracted by the past, by fantasy, or by thoughts of the future. These are fine in daily life, but it is important to take time periodically to banish these things and look inward at the part of you which observes these things. The idea is that there is a precognizant self which sees everything we experience.

Focusing on the experience if the body and perception was very difficult for me. This is because of the way I am accustomed to viewing the relationship between myself and my body. I have a very dualistic view of this relationship: I have tended to view my body as the neighborhood in which I live, but not at all a part of myself. I am generally not fond of it, and resent being stuck inside it. One of the techniques we learned was to focus on breathing and feel the breath in the body. I hadn’t a clue how to do this, and still don’t really get it.

While some aspects of the experience were frustrating to me, I think it was extremely productive, and I intend to pursue this further. I met one of the people who supervises the Dharma Rain center here in Portland, (which incidentally, is a block east of Specklet’s house!) and spoke a bit about what they do there. I think I’ll visit soon. I’ve been traumatized by existential angst for almost as long as I can remember, and I think I’ve encountered something that can help with that. Most importantly, it does so without asking me to swallow anything that is contradictory to reason. According to wikipedia, Buddhism is a ‘non-theistic religion.’ There is no leap of faith required at all. Rather the idea is to work hard and find everything you need inside yourself. It’s already there.
That's really lovely, pie. I'm so glad it was a positive experience (and I love that it's helping reconcile the body/mind split for you -- I've never been fond of that concept!).
posted by occhiblu 05 February | 14:15
Great description of your weekend, buddy. Sounds like quite the quest.

the idea is to work hard and find everything you need inside yourself. It’s already there.

then why (and I swear to you I'm not just being contrarian) why do we have such a deep-seated need for contact with other people?
posted by jonmc 05 February | 14:32
The two are not contradictory at all jon. I think that the idea is that through meditation, one can free oneself of baggage and judgement and really see other people, not just reflections of ones self. Silence is for meditation and retreats, not daily life. In fact, regular practice is supposed to make interaction with others better.
posted by pieisexactlythree 05 February | 14:36
Oh yeah, one more thing: They had coffee there!
posted by pieisexactlythree 05 February | 14:38
Thanks for the report.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero 05 February | 14:41
Wow, that's really cool, pie. I'm glad you got a lot out of it, and it's interesting to hear about. What's your ultimate goal? Do you have one, or are you just kind of going with the flow?
posted by gaspode 05 February | 14:48
Bravo, pie! Sounds absolutely wonderful.
posted by Specklet 05 February | 14:49
That sounds lovely. I almost went on a Buddhist retreat once. But my head was so fucked that I couldn't choose between the retreat or the Hedonism swingers' resort in Jamaica. So I didn't go to either.
posted by essexjan 05 February | 14:52
I couldn't choose between the retreat or the Hedonism swingers' resort in Jamaica. So I didn't go to either.
Were you still on the sauce?

What's your ultimate goal? Do you have one, or are you just kind of going with the flow?
That's the beauty of it! There aren't any goals - practice is an end in itself. I know that sounds really cryptic, but I don't know how else to explain it. I guess the goal is to work on overcoming inner strife, and thereby enhance the value of my interaction with everything else around me.
posted by pieisexactlythree 05 February | 14:57
Yeah, I guess I worded that wrongly. I meant what are you hoping to ultimately get out of it? But I guess you answered that anyways :)
posted by gaspode 05 February | 14:59
I should really do that sometime. I've been thinking about it for years, and I really need it. Maybe once my Thursday class is over I'll start going to the Thursday vipassana thingy in Wallingford.
posted by matildaben 05 February | 15:27
That's the beauty of it! There aren't any goals - practice is an end in itself. I know that sounds really cryptic, but I don't know how else to explain it. I guess the goal is to work on overcoming inner strife, and thereby enhance the value of my interaction with everything else around me.

Schools of Buddhism have different ideas about goals. Some say you practice in order to attain enlightenment, and within those some think enlightenment is a different place (Nirvana or the Pure Land), while others think enlightenment is a different understanding of where you are (which is here). In Buddhist mythology some people reject enlightenment in order to help people who are unenlightened.

Whatever you think you will get, it is good to be careful about why you practice. Two of the four truths of Buddhism are that you suffer when you're attached to your desires, and that this suffering stops when you stop being attached to your desires. So people need to be careful that they don't practice Buddhism because they want enlightenment, want to stop their own suffering, want to escape disappointment, and so on. As long as you don't have a thing you want you're unhappy by definition. You're attached to a desire.
posted by halonine 05 February | 16:04
As long as you don't have a thing you want you're unhappy by definition.

I have to admit, this always gave me trouble. Isn't desire (for whatever) part of being human? whether it makes us happy or not, it gets our juices flowing which is healthy, right?
posted by jonmc 05 February | 16:12
Isn't desire (for whatever) part of being human?
Many things can be a part of being a human. It is possibly not universally necessary though.

whether it makes us happy or not, it gets our juices flowing which is healthy, right?
I don't know if this is a priori a true statement either. There's no way to verify either way.

I'm not an expert on this though...
posted by pieisexactlythree 05 February | 16:19
Here's another thing I forgot to mention earlier:

During the morning services, one of the monks recited names of those suffering for sickness, followed by names of "those in the transition of death." The latter list included James Brown, Robert Anton Wilson, Gerald Ford and Saddam Hussein.
posted by pieisexactlythree 05 February | 16:26
Sounds intense.
posted by chewatadistance 05 February | 18:04
pi, your retreat sounds wonderful. What a lovely opportunity and gift.

Thanks for sharing.
posted by LoriFLA 05 February | 18:45
Thank you for sharing that with us.
posted by Eideteker 05 February | 18:46
So great to read your update, pie! The more I explore buddhism myself, the more I feel drawn to the idea of a retreat, too. Thanks for sharing your experience - it sounds wonderful.
posted by scody 05 February | 18:52
pie, thanks for sharing this with us.
posted by safetyfork 05 February | 19:16
Isn't desire (for whatever) part of being human? whether it makes us happy or not, it gets our juices flowing which is healthy, right?

From what I understand and interpret, the idea is that if you're in tune with your true nature, you'll recognize the path to take for fulfill your dreams, and you'll fight for the things that will allow others to do so as well, but it won't be based on the idea of lack, but of what's right.

I'm not sure if that's totally incomprehensible... an example might be that I want to become a therapist, and I want to do so because I've looked into my heart and realized that, to lead an authentic open compassionate life, I need to actively work to help others, and that, given my strengths, this is the best way of doing so. That is a decision based on what's right, and the sacrifices that I make to achieve that goal fall into that "rightness" as well.

If, however, I decided that I lacked people who followed or adored me, that I needed people to depend on me, that would fall under "desire." I would desire to be wanted, and I might fill that desire by being a therapist, but by doing so, I'd be setting up my clients for failure, because I'd be trying fulfill my own needs without recognizing how they'd (negatively) affect others.

Basically, by looking deep inside yourself, and following what you find there, you'll be fine, as long as you keep doing that work. But if you're distracted by idle wants, and lacking self-awareness, and not doing the work to get that self-awareness, you're likely to be acting from ego rather than because you're following a path that will lead to good.
posted by occhiblu 05 February | 22:13
Things that make me sleepy. || THIS IS A SHOUTING THREAD!

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