MetaChat - Um, I think I've had it with 'um.'

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29 January 2007

Um, I think I've had it with 'um.' →[More:] I almost posted this to MetaTalk today, but it might be just me and not worth getting everyone all up in arms.

It's just driving me nuts how on forums like MeFi, when some people want to correct you, they'll phrase their rebuttal in the form "Um, [rebuttal]."

It would be enough just to address the point at issue and write the rebuttal. The addition of "Um," is so disingenuously snarky that it makes me grimace with embarrassment for the user. It's almost as though we're in fifth grade again playing the one-upmanship game. It adds nothing to the content other than an attempt at an arch tone.

I want to respond to the "Um"mers with "Well, for your inforMAYshun, since you so smart, [rebuttal]. So there."

But I'm afraid that then they might say "So here's a dime, call somebody who cares. Why don't you shut up before I shut you up."

And then I might have to say "You and what army?"

And from there it really degenerates.

Really, my basic point is that beginning a comment with "Um," does not make you smarter or more likely to be right.

Okay. Now you can go ahead and sing 'crybaby, crybaby, cry cry cry.'

post by: Miko at: 00:02 | 43 comments

Like, you are so right.

please don't hit me...

posted by arse_hat 29 January | 00:06

Um, we're making up for not having the intarnets when we WERE in the fifth grade. ;-P

You can hit me; I like it.

posted by mischief 29 January | 00:08

My Dad is bigger than your Dad.

posted by PlanetKyoto 29 January | 00:09

Yeah, the snark store called. They're out of you.

posted by Miko 29 January | 00:12

I totally agree. I actually love that Television Without Pity completely banned the use of "um," even though apparently their moderation has become synonymous with jack-booted-thuggery.

"Um" is disrepect, couched in disingenuousness. It's the wolf in lamb's clothing of idiotic snark.

I may have had too much bourbon and OH MY GOD SO GOOD red wine this evening, and therefore might be less emphatic on this subject in the morning...

posted by occhiblu 29 January | 00:30

Er, I don't see what the big deal is.

:P

posted by CitrusFreak12 29 January | 00:39

*sticks tongue out at Miko*

posted by hadjiboy 29 January | 00:56

Interesting. I always thought that "um" is circumspect-ive and certainly modest. I tend to use it while thinking that I do not really want to disagree, I am not sure, I want to be gentle etc. Especially here on MetaChat which is a nice place and/or when disagreeing with people I like. I am surprised to find out it can be perceived as snark...

thanks for bringing it up.

posted by carmina 29 January | 01:30

Erm. WTF?

posted by loquacious 29 January | 01:37

It never bothers me. It is expressive, a written cue to denote a tone of voice... either introspective, or falsely so and therefore sarcastic. But in this typed world where you can't see faces, I like the ums, ers, and... elipses.

posted by Doohickie 29 January | 01:37

Now I have a whole new thing to be self-conscious about.

posted by mudpuppie 29 January | 01:52

What carmina said

posted by TheDonF 29 January | 02:00

but it might be just me and not worth getting everyone all up in arms.

I will take up arms on your behalf, Miko.

posted by mlis 29 January | 02:16

I am surprised to find out it can be perceived as snark...

Uhh, yeah!

posted by knave 29 January | 02:38

What if we started with, "Ahem!"

posted by King of Prontopia 29 January | 03:31

Let's get rid of fuckin' "meh" while we're slaughtering "um"!

posted by By the Grace of God 29 January | 03:39

ppppppppppppptttttttttttttttthhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...............

posted by mischief 29 January | 03:39

no hate for *yawn*? How about ~~the ever-popular "sand in your vagina"~~ strikeouts?

posted by taz 29 January | 03:58

Oh, plenty of hate for those too, taz.

posted by By the Grace of God 29 January | 04:07

What I don't like is posts, especially at AskMe, that begin with "so," as in, "So, I was talking with my brother yesterday..."

But that is just the pedantic piker in me.

posted by PlanetKyoto 29 January | 04:16

I actually, LIKE "meh". I could see how it might not always be used in the manner that I like it though. It's just such a great monosylabbic expression of disinterest. Of course, in a web based comment, it might be easier to just not comment.

posted by richat 29 January | 06:15

The whole practice of writing out vocal tics like "um" is a weird one, when you stop and think about it, but "um" and "meh" are high on my annoyance list, too, because they tend to appear in more annoying statements.

posted by BoringPostcards 29 January | 07:50

I'm not a fan of "um" either, for exactly the reasons Miko mentions (and I also used to spend a lot of time on the TWoP forums, and completely understand why it's banned there). "Meh" on the other hand...aw, I love it. Maybe just for the clock, I don't know.

posted by gaspode 29 January | 08:16

I'll admit, I've used it, but only with malice aforethought, so I'm not sure what that means.

I've always had a particular hatred for "/shrug", which just seemed so blatantly a lie, since writing out /shrug indicates a level of caring that the act of shrugging is meant to disavow.

posted by omiewise 29 January | 08:44

So, what's Television Without Pity all about?

posted by danostuporstar 29 January | 09:03

I've actually used it in the past, as well. But it's been a long time, and through constant exposure I've come to find it more grating.

I think what bothers me is the impression of disrespect it gives, as occhiblu says. Sometimes disrespect may be merited, as OmieWise said (malice aforethought). But to pop it out the first time someone disagrees with you (and be unable to back up your objection, moreover) just seems so playground-ish.

If someone has strong enough evidence that you've said something wrong enough to merit an 'um,' couldn't they couch it in more direct, confident language? If they're right, their rightness will prevail.

As to 'meh,' this one puzzles me. Does anyone really say 'meh,', or do we just write it? I'd never heard it in real life before I became active in these communities, and when I hear it now, it's only because people from these communities are speaking it. Is it a regionalism?

It's interesting that the written verbal tics and catchphrases do go in and out of fashion. I remember the anti "So..." campaign of a year or so ago, as well as the 'Google-Fu' wars, and now we're witnessing early skirmishes in the 'hive mind' battle.

posted by Miko 29 January | 09:09

What about comments that consist entirely of "Umm..."? Sometimes a little says a lot.

posted by danostuporstar 29 January | 09:31

You can have my "Umm" when I can have everyone else's "m'kay?". God, does that make me homicidal.

posted by deadcowdan 29 January | 09:36

um, like, yeah.

posted by Daniel Charms 29 January | 11:11

Not a fan of "um", myself.

The one that really steams my beans, however, is "Film at eleven." (As in: "Internet user hates internet expression. Film at eleven.") I mean, when was the last time a local TV news promo even used those words -- 1973?

posted by Atom Eyes 29 January | 11:28

Miko - I do actually say "Meh" out loud.

posted by richat 29 January | 11:35

"meh" is good ...
"um" is good
"er" is good
"film at eleven" is irritating as hell.

22 minutes until I finish work today. I am coasting

posted by TheDonF 29 January | 11:39

Info for dano: Television Without Pity (aka TwoP or TWoP) is a site where they post a full synopsis of what happens in certain TV shows, from start to finish, with snarky commentary added. I wouldn't have been able to keep up with half as many shows as I do without them.

I actually love that Television Without Pity completely banned the use of "um," even though apparently their moderation has become synonymous with jack-booted-thuggery.

Derail: Why is it that I can only read TwoP when the recapper loves the show as much as I do, or at least has respect for it, but I cannot stand it when they don't?

I don't know about the rest of you, but the way I write in forums is the way I speak. (Unless I'm writing as a representative for an organization. Then I "speak" like a marketing shill or corporate drone.) When I read forums, I also imagine that the person is talking directly to me and give that person whatever vocal inflections that are indicated by their punctuation, "verbal" tics or whatever.

So for me, an "Um, [rebuttal]" is also shorthand for "I think you're completely wrong and here's why, YOU DUMBASS" because that's how I found myself talking to my ex when he would claim something that I patently knew was not true.

Eliminating verbal and written tics is HARD, people.

posted by TrishaLynn 29 January | 12:53

Uh, okay. What mudpuppie said.

posted by deborah 29 January | 13:00

Um. [...] is the perfect response to someone posting something completely out of touch with reality:

OOTWR: "No SUV has ever been the subject of a police chase".
Me: Um, OJ?

posted by Mitheral 29 January | 13:33

TrishaLynn: I also read and write the way I talk, which is exactly why I can't stand 'um,'. It means exactly what you say, and I can't stand it in spoken language, either. That's why it bothers me when written -- I can hear the dismissive tone.

posted by Miko 29 January | 16:25

Mitheral: I know people think of it as a perfect response when they're very sure they're right; but when the commentor is wrong or hasn't got a good argument and begins with the 'um' anyway, boy, do they seem dumb.

posted by Miko 29 January | 16:27

And when they're right, they still seem priggish. :)

If you're right, there doesn't seem to be much reason to be sarcastic. (Unless the other person was sarcastic first, and then it's still not great to be sarcastic back, but I won't claim sainthood on that.)

posted by occhiblu 29 January | 17:07

Sarcasm is the last refuge of the desperately superior.

posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson 29 January | 17:10

As some others apparently do, I use the "umm, ..." thing when I feel some embarrasment about disagreeing with someone for whatever reason, not as a dismissive thing. It is often used that way, though, seemingly intended as something like "let me explain this to you like you're a two year-old, ..."

Sarcasm, used correctly, is an excellent way to bring down people who deserve it. It is, however, almost never used correctly. Generally, the saying "sarcasm is the lowest form of wit" is very true.

posted by dg 29 January | 18:19

I'm FOUR!

posted by Lipstick Thespian 29 January | 18:38

Heard a funny cross-cultural story about "um."

The American "um" closely resembles the Turkish word "ahm" which means "pussy."

So these American soldiers stationed in Turkey would go out to the markets with their little phrasebooks that looked a little something like this:

I would like some:

flowers
shish kebab
etc.

And they'd read out the first part in Turkish. But they usually had a hard time finding the second word and they'd wind up saying to these conservative shopkeepers:

"I would like some ahm-ahm-ahm-ahm-ahhhh-waitaminuit . .. . "

posted by jason's_planet 29 January | 21:10

Meh.

posted by Doohickie 01 February | 00:59

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