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24 January 2007

Point and counterpoint I'd like to talk about extremes for a moment, if you don't mind.→[More:]

In the wake of the brouhaha (which is nothing like being in the wake of Magellan), I started to think about extremes. This has been bubbling up around my brain for a while, mostly thanks to politics.

My friend Ed* said to me once that there's no such thing as a good Republican. I repeated that "funny" statement to Mike*--a stalwart friend of mine from my high school days--adding that I didn't think that I had any good friends who could say they were a Republican. Mike turned to me and said, "Yes, you do." He then proceeded to destroy me verbally with his insight into modern politics and the Democratic Party's agenda. I couldn't fight back, mostly because I haven't had to defend my liberalism in a while.

I told that story to Ed who stubbornly expressed his original opinion, almost coming close to insulting Mike's character--without ever having met him. It took about two weeks, my ire, and a little bit of understanding on Ed's part before he was able to recant his statement and say that it was possible that my Republican friends were good people or that I had friends who were "good" Republicans (as opposed to the evil ones with the goatees and the shiny shirts).

One thing I came away with from this whole experience is the notion that one must always be able to back up his or her statements. The other thing I came away with is that you should always keep an open mind, mostly when it comes to your friends and the opinions they express. My Internet boyfriend Wil Wheaton is a flaming liberal, but he still has conservative friends and parents and I'm sure he's always open to what they have to say, while still remaining true to his ideals. The last thing I came away with is that extremes of any kind are dangerous.

Discuss?

*Names have been changed to protect their privacy. Fnord.

post by: TrishaLynn at: 20:07 | 14 comments

There are no good Libertarians.
Only good libertarians.

posted by mischief 24 January | 20:11

Trish, I had a similar experience with a friend who's actual name is Ed. I'm picturing him in this conversation. I'm going to swing back into this thread later though, as I'm starving and want to bolt out of the office right this instant.

posted by pieisexactlythree 24 January | 20:15

there are no good evil people.

posted by qvantamon 24 January | 21:01

I would lose half my friends if I shunned Republicans. I love my Republican friends and I love my Republican parents. My parents are liberal and they don't even know it. They are tree-huggers to the extreme. They oppose the death penalty and are pro-choice. They're atheists (not that it matters), and opposed going to Iraq.

My father switched parties during the Iran Hostage Crisis, he was pissed at Carter. One of my most vivid childhood memories is him sketching a human hand flipping the bird with the word 'Iran' beneath it. He then proceeded to place this drawing in our car's back window. We were too poor for bumper stickers. And since he doesn't like to be "taxed to death" he is a registered Republican.

I am a registered Republican also, but mostly vote Democrat. My father practically frogmarched me into the registration office the day I turned 18. I was coerced, brainwashed,and naive.

The other thing I came away with is that you should always keep an open mind, mostly when it comes to your friends and the opinions they express.

I couldn't agree more. I used to experience a lot of internal eye-rolling over my parent's political beliefs. And evangelicals. And even my ultra-liberal inlaws with their occasional pompous rhetoric. There are many brilliant physicians I admire that have deep religious faith. I love my parents and my in-laws too. I can't begrudge them for their beliefs. I realized that I needed to relax a little bit. I stopped being so judgemental.

posted by LoriFLA 24 January | 21:42

Lori: You can change your registration if you want, any time.

one must always be able to back up his or her statements.

That's true. People with more information will always be able to tear apart the arguments of people with less information, regardless of the moral superiority or inferiority of the person's position. Also, the more you learn about your chosen philosophical positions, the easier it is to take down the opposition's arguments. A lot of times, people can deliver a manufactured rant in defense of their political position - but it essentially comes down to philosophy - human nature, and the responsibilities and purposes of government.

Though knowing your information is important in argument and debate framing, when it comes to election time, actual information plays a small part. At that point, popular whim reigns.

posted by Miko 24 January | 22:02

Yes Miko. I have been a bit of a slacker. I keep saying I need to change it.

posted by LoriFLA 24 January | 22:19

Read up on Muzafer Sharif and the Robber's Cave study. Really frightening stuff and a big part of why I think we need to dismantle the two-party system in American politics.

posted by Eideteker 24 January | 22:29

The last thing I came away with is that extremes of any kind are dangerous.

Funny you should mention that. For much of my twenties, I was a Communist. I was also preachy and dogmatic and narrow-minded and boring.

I got older and started to notice that people really didn't give a rusty fuck about my little sermons, that the revolution wasn't going to happen anywhere, anytime during my own life and started to think that maybe I should mellow the fuck out a little bit. Age helped too; I started seeing people the way they really were, not the way I wanted them to be.

I am more or less apolitical nowadays. Well . . if you had to pin me down, I'm somewhere in the political Left. Sort of. Not 100% on all things. But I really hate, hate hate to hear that pompous, preachy political sermonizing tone from speakers of just about every political stripe. As soon as I start hearing the slogans, the sarcastic, nasty little laugh, the endless rounds of self-congratulation, I find myself rolling my eyes and saying to myself "Fuck. Not this shit again. I paid my dues. I don't feel like hollering about this stuff anymore."

And I'm much happier for it.

posted by jason's_planet 24 January | 22:31

I'm a Republican.

(Hey, with my last name what choice do I have?)

posted by bunnyfire 24 January | 23:38

fire?

posted by trondant 24 January | 23:57

Fanatic here. Just a note that you can feel strongly about politics and have friends with different beliefs than you. Real politics is actually about building common ground with those people, and that's what I try to do.

I get far angrier about defensive apathy from people who should know better than I get about people who disagree with me.

As regards happy, getting involved in politics has been the best thing for my self esteem, life skills, organisational and leadership skills.. it is one of the things that gives energy to the rest of my life. So everyone's experience is different! I take precautions to avoid getting burnt out, though.

posted by By the Grace of God 25 January | 03:57

I hear ya on the burnout thing, BtGoG (ButtGog?). I have a friend who was involved in some political action grouop for women's rights in Malaysia and she recently announced that she's quitting her job because she's so frustrated with those who would turn the country into an Islamic state and pervert that religion's ideals. Ever since she started living there and reporting about what some people think being Malay is, I've worried about her safety in that country. On the one hand, I'm glad that she's one of those who are fighting the good fight. On the other, I wish that she didn't have to do it and she could go back to living happily in Australia, going back to school.

posted by TrishaLynn 25 January | 08:08

There are no good people.

posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson 25 January | 11:39

Except dead injuns.

posted by danostuporstar 25 January | 11:45

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