I had an iRiver player before getting my iPod, and although it got rave reviews I was generally dissatisfied with it. I am much happier with my iPod than I ever was with the iRiver. You could always wait for the Next Big Thing from Apple, but that's the central conundrum of the technology consumer, ain't it? If I were you, I would go ahead and by the current model 30 gig iPod.

If you get into the "wait for the upgrade" trap, you'll be waiting forever, as it's a continually escalating staircase. If you feel the need and can afford it, get what's available now.

I still think the iPod's the best MP3 player out there, although there are many who may disagree.

I [heart] homophones.

What's the next thing in the chute going to be? A slightly-bigger screen? Minimally better battery life? .ogg support? Built-in wireless? I don't know about you, but none of these things are a very big deal to me, because they're not particularly relevant to the way I use my mp3 player.

I used to be a charter member of the iPod-is-overrated crowd, but I have gradually come around, to the point where I now think that the iPod is the best, though not the best for the money, mp3 player, at least for most people who only want to listen to mp3s and don't have any special requirements (e.g., mass storage compliance, recording, file format compatibility, audiophilia, water resistance, low budget, etc.).

If not an iPod, then, from what I understand of your needs and usage habits, the Cowon hard-disk players are probably the best other choice. Do you have any of those special requirements I mentioned? Are you a big cheapskate? Are you a big contrarian? Do you proudly self-identify as a geek? Were you madly in love with your iPod, or frustrated with its limitations? If you answer those questions no, no, no, no, madly in love, get an iPod. If you answer them yes, yes, yes, yes, frustrated, get the Cowon (or a used iRiver IHP-140).

I love my iPod and wouldn't want anything else. If you can wait a couple of weeks, there's the Macworld Expo coming up on the 8th of January. No one can tell, but it's probably unlikely that they'll announce new iPods at that as the last revisions are only a few months old.

i still like my 4gb mini quite a bit. i was thinking about upgrading to one with a larger capacity, but since my car recently died, and tuition for next semester due next week along with all of the other bills (now including a car payment - grrrr...) i'm thinking i'm better off waiting until my new car is paid off before getting a new one.

can you live with a refurbished model?

i like the idea of that open-source media player kit that make magazine has, but it involves soldering... which isn't a dealbreaker for me, but then soldering isn't for everyone.

can you live with a refurbished model?

Well yes. The two Dells I have are refurbs and they work fine.

But if I get an education discount at the Apple Store, as I did with my other iPod (have to show that you are a student or employed by a school district), it makes it only slightly more expensive than ordering a refurbished one, plus once I make the purchase, I get to get it in my grubby little hands immediately.

The Cowon looks like it would give me some geek cred, but I did not even get close to any limitations to the iPod when I had it.

Interestingly enough, someone in my office was admiring it, a bit too much, so instead of leaving it in my desk, I put it in my daypack when I went out to a site, then the daypack got ripped off. Have to laugh (albeit ruefully) about that.

How about a Zune? It's brown and it squirts! What could be more disgusting better?

How about a Zune?

Has anyone seen one in person? Known anyone who has one?

They may be fine players, but for the life of me, I would never even consider getting one. Call me a snob, I guess.

Get one of these, yo.

Educational discount at apple? *clocks self in head*

I was drooling over the new Bose earbuds recently, after my apple ones died, but they cost $100. (I only paid $150 for my nano). I settled for the $13 Kross, which work fine. (Still wonder about those Bose, though.)

Educational discount at apple? *clocks self in head*

Well I was surprised they gave me the discount on a iPod. Our school district Apple coordinator had told me that iPods are not part of the program, but then the store gave me one anyway.

I am sure that you could get some sort of deal, being a teacher.

Thanks, danf... good to know, for future apple itches.

yeah, educational discount is fine if you're a teacher or a student. I've been doing a couple of uni courses over the past few years and that's qualified me for discounts on my iPods, MacBook and, IIRC, software. You can get discount in store on Apple-branded goods only.

happy cowon owner here, but the model i have (a tiny - and oh so sexy smooth black rectangle - t2) isn't hard-disk.

anyway, have you considered getting a cheaper player and better headphones? i ended up spending more on headphones than on the player itself before i found a solution that really rocked (for the record i have sennhesier hd25s, but in-ear etymotics or similar might be better for you). with good isolating headphones you can hear music without turning the volume up to crazy levels and annoying your co-workers/travellers.

Pips, TheDonF, I just went by the apple store, in prep for friday (payday) and Apple has eliminated the educational discounts for iPods.

Pity.

Really? Bummer. Luckily I got my 80gig one a couple of months back so qualified. I wonder why? Maybe they're so desirable there was no benefit in offering the discount.

Well, the price listed in this document is the same as ordinary retail.

What in the hell do you do with 80 gigs, Don?

I still think the iPod's the best MP3 player out there, although there are many who may disagree.

I think ipods are totally the worst players on the market, except for all the others.

I believe I have expressed my feelings on the portable mp3 player market in this space before, and at length, so I'll leave it at that.

I think ipods are totally the worst players on the market, except for all the others.

I believe I have expressed my feelings on the portable mp3 player market in this space before, and at length, so I'll leave it at that.

deadcowdan, I hope you'll reconsider. I think I must've missed your opinions the first time around, and I couldn't find it in your comment history (admittedly, I didn't look for very long).

Thanks for the heads-up, danf, for future reference. The nano's all I need for now, but Jon could use an 80 gig. His 60 gig, I think it is, is just about full. (Course, I get to dip into his reserves whenever I like... why does that sound dirty?)

box: I looked it up, and it's not as long as I remember: here

To add more specific gripes: Why does no player on the planet that I've seen (and this includes the ipod) have a quick and easy way to toggle the random/shuffle mode for music? Most of the time I like randomness, but there are some albums that need to be played sequentially, and having to navigate through the menu system to turn it on and off is annoying, particularly if you're driving.

Ipod-specific: why can I not get an overview of the playlist/album/whatever I'm currently playing? With my Karma, I could not only see the current playlist (in actual playing order, even if it was on shuffle), but I could add, delete, and move tracks on the fly. It did not have the most intuitive system for doing so, but it beat the ipod's complete inability to do this at all.

Why does a video podcast show up in the audio podcast list, without any notification that said podcast has pretty moving pictures?

The wheel is maddeningly inaccurate, and I keep skipping past the thing I'm trying to select.

The headphones are shit. Although to be fair, my experience and anecdotal evidence obtained on the web lead me to believe that most brands of players give you shit headphones.

The audio quality is certainly nothing to brag about.

And of course it's overpriced. I resisted buying one on that fact alone until Apple introduced the newest versions, and i found a 30GB video model for $250, which was roughly comparable to other brands with similar capabilities. And as much as I've slammed the ipod in the space above, I haven't seen anything else on the market that is even as good. (The Zune does not count, since it's a first-gen Microsoft product, which means it sucks, and it is in my mind very likely to just wither and disappear in about a year.)

Ipod-specific: why can I not get an overview of the playlist/album/whatever I'm currently playing? With my Karma, I could not only see the current playlist (in actual playing order, even if it was on shuffle), but I could add, delete, and move tracks on the fly. It did not have the most intuitive system for doing so, but it beat the ipod's complete inability to do this at all.

Because you are supposed to Think Different by thinking exactly the way Apple wants you to.

iPods sound like crap. No, really, they do. They're way overpriced, too, and don't do nearly as much as the competition. Unless you're totally, madly in love with the iTunes store or something, there's no real good reason to get an iPod these days.

There are hundreds and thousands of flash and HD players now, many or most with more features.

I recently picked up a "cheap" Truly Pic'n Roll MP313x on sale for about $79 USD. It has 1GB on board, and it has a SD expansion slot as well, which currently supports up to a 2GB card. (Which is what I put in there.)

The device is firmware upgradeable. The most recent firmware upgrade added a game and the ability to play mpg movies as well as a few more options. I look forward to more games and updates.

The thing is an amazing little box of fun. Color screen, good design, tiny, well constructed, light, decent battery life.

It plays MP3s and WMA, mpg video, FM radio, txt files, jpegs and has a few simple (but extremely difficult) logic-puzzle games. It has an actual, user-adjustable EQ function. I've been reading ebooks on it quite a bit.

It records audio from the built in mic, from FM broadcast or *line in*, which is a feature I had to have because I plan on using this as a portable solid-state recorder/sampler. It simply acts as a host/drive. I just drag/drop files to or from it.

The sound quality is great, even with the included cheapie earbuds. The player drives my giant fullsized over the ear headphones just fine without mushing out or distorting.

All in all, for the price I paid it's a hell of a lot of bang for my buck in a tiny little package. It even came with a bunch of goodies like a case, armband, USB power adapter for computer-free charging and more.

The major drawbacks? The support sucks. Their site is an affront to humanity. The software interface on the device is often clumsy, but it's tolerable. I'd rather deal with the clunky interface than deal with the iPod's painful and annoying clickwheel. I've had to reset the device a couple of times trying to correct some kind of file-type corruption or something, but the reset button is easy to get at and well designed, and I haven't had any other problems hardware or software-wise.

Anyway, there's lots and lots of competition for the iPod, with many more features per dollar.