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It's about raising consciousness about our culture's sexualization of the breast.
I have no problem with women breastfeeding their kids wherever they want, but 'desexualizing the breast,' I dunno if that's possible, or even desireable.
Oh god, jon, don't start. You're making a mountain out of a molehill D cup out of an A cup with the whole "desexualization" thing (improperly in quotes, I might add).
But, you know, how 'bout I just go back to talking about junk food and music instead of having opinions and ideas of my own. I'll be everybody's lovable retard again. That'll be fun!
... the article said nothing about desexualizing the breast. It said "It's about raising consciousness about our culture's sexualization of the breast. Breast-feeding needs to be supported wherever and whenever it happens."
A: jonmc, everyone doesn't love you (but I do) and you are NOT A RETARD.
B: I know this isn't what the article was about, per se, but some of those Lactivists scare me. When the kid is old enough to say "Mother, I'm ready for my lunch now, please." - it's time to stop. (IANAM)
How is asking that a blanket be placed over the baby's head being unsupportive? I understand how throwing the mother off the plane is unsupportive, but not why she chose to make an issue of it in the first place.
Yeah, uh, let's just say I fall somewhere in between "We should never see an unclothed fem-boobie ever" (making this distinction because man-boobies are apparantly completely 'desexualized') and "we should breast-feed our kids until they move out."
If I were more of an asshole, on my next flight I would point to a guy and ask the stewardess, "That man's trouser tent is offending me. Could you please ask him to cover it with a pillow?" What sort of response do you think I'd get, hm?
If, in fact, the mother was sitting between the window and her husband in the second-to-last row of the plane, I can't see how there's any other side to the story.
Could you please ask him to cover it with a pillow?" What sort of response do you think I'd get, hm?
Given the 'customer is always right,' society we live in, she'd probably have a quick consult with her supervisor over which of you would be more likely to sue the airline.
There are a couple of issues here. My question (relating to one of them) is whether the flight attendent was offended because the child was not a newborn. Are people suggesting that there are levels of offensiveness relating to the child's age?
If the passengers were complaining, it was probably about the three-hour delay. If it were me - either as attendant or passenger - I would just be delighted the baby wasn't screaming her lungs out with such a long wait and disruption of her schedule. A little supper, a little nap - what's not to love?
hehehe...you try keeping a blanket over the head of a one year old...
fat chance..
it's the most ridiculous argument. those who choose not to breastfeed can whip out a bottle of formula & people smile (myself included) if you whip out a breast for the purpose of feeding your child the whole world falls apart. the same people who have cleavage hanging out of their blouses were the first to give me dirty looks while i discreetly nursed an infant. give me a break...are you Really offended? it's a boob.
there are the breastfeeding nazi's out there that annoy me...but what do i care? fine...nurse your 3 year old. i really don't care. nurse them in applebee's, boobs lolling out all of the place. won't shock me...i don't care. has no bearing on my life. it's the ones in restaurants giving their 3 year olds coke that i want to tsk-tsk. it's the mothers impatiently dragging their toddlers around, yelling at them in a verbally abusive way, expecting them to be acting like little adults in the middle of walmart that offend me (ooh, i'm so judgemental!) but what can you do? if a mother was beating her 1 year old in an airplane, would anyone have said anything?? i wonder...
Are people suggesting that there are levels of offensiveness relating to the child's age?
Well, if the kid was like, seven, I admit I'd be a bit freaked and probably say 'look, the airline provides sandwiches and beverages..'
(Then again, when I was around 10, my cousin from Italy visited and his mom came in and dressed him in pajamas every night and in his regular clothes the next day. (No, he wasn't handicapped) Watching from the next bed, I was mildly astonished. When I mentioned it to my mom, she mentioned how 'well-behaved' he was. Compared to me, i guess. So age-appropraite varies wildly I guess)
An airline staff person, in my opinion, should not have any issue with telling someone complaining about a breast feeding mother to look the other way. That's pretty simple. If something offends your childish, tiresome moral bullshit code, look away.
Argh. I have met many lactivists that I found over the top but at the end of the day, I can't get over how so much of western society doesn't realize that, within reason, breastfeeding should be the goal. It's not some weird, granola-eating, patchouli-smelling habit.
Again, argh.
/edited to remove unfair and unneeded angry generalizations
right Specklet... it's tempting to infer that it may have played a role though (rainbaby and muddgirl both mention it without it being mentioned in the article.)
I personally get completely squicked out by children old enough to ask for breast milk, but that's just me. I definitely wouldn't ask a mother to cover up anything.
(And a 22-month old child is not old enough to be outside American "norms" for breastfed kids.)
Like richat, I've refrained from making angry generalizations...
I'm afraid that when I'm a mom, there may be an airline attendant who's going to get a lot more than a tearful compliance from me, should the situation arise.
Don't some airlines keep a supply of those blindfolds some people wear to help them sleep?
A scene I'd like to see:
Passenger complains about having to see a woman breastfeeding. Attendant says sympathetically, "I'll take care of it." Goes away, comes back and hands the passenger a blindfold.
right Specklet... it's tempting to infer that it may have played a role though (rainbaby and muddgirl both mention it without it being mentioned in the article.)
I'll comment. I'm not a mom (yet), and I would never presume to say "22 months is TOO OLD," or anything. My remark was more about some "extreme Lactivists" I know who still breastfeed their 7 year old children. Yeah, it's comforting for them, but there should be a line drawn. Are there "diaperists" who insist their children don't need to be potty trained "Until they're ready to be potty trained"? That's a kid that's gonna have a fun time in college.
Yeah - that wasn't meant to be a dig or anything, muddgirl (I was hoping I wouldn't have to pre-apologise, because I like to assume that people don't think I'm the sort of person that makes indirectly snarky comments), just that it is something that people zone in on. Given that it was mentioned without ever having been cited in the article, beyond stating the age of the kid. So how did it even get brought up in the first place when it wasn't germane to the article in question? Because subconsiously people still take note of that stuff - I mean, I do too. So I was wondering out loud if that might have played a role in any offense-taking (by the attendant).
sadly, mudgirl, there are those parents, too...3 year olds saying, "i need my diaper changed now"
yep, yep, yep
there are the natural baby foods freaks.
the cloth vs. disposable diaper debate.
anything child-rearing related, there's heavy emotional debating going on.
A comment that definitely isn't directed towards anyone here:
I for one am absolutely indifferent to how long a woman breastfeeds her kid outside of her tying them up and forcing them to feed. I couldn't possibly care less. Kids who aren't weaned decide they just don't want it anymore, and that's that. Of all the pain and cruelty and injustice in the world, breastfeeding just doesn't blip on my radar.
I think the "mother who nurses too long" scary bogeywoman is just a typical red herring thrown up by people who are uncomfortable with nursing for other reasons and feel like women shouldn't be doing this outside their home. They see breastfeeding mothers as radical and dangerous to the status quo ("Keep your tits in the porn where they belong, hippie bitch"). The implicit charge is that it's sick and sexual, and people who think like that are the ones who frighten me. Very much.
I think women have every right to breastfeed in public, but I don't think I'm saying anything too contentious when I say that men should likewise have the right to videotape it for research. That seems pretty fair to me.
Excuse me sir, why are you standing here? Does me breastfeeding my child offend you?
No mam, I'm just getting in line.
I wanted to stop at six months, but Perle had other plans as when she got her first tooth she decided that nothing but my milk would do. Choice: hungry thirsty miserable baby or nursed, happy and sleeping baby - yeah that wasn't even hard to pick. Soon after that I tried weening again. No luck.
Doesn't help matters that we've lived in a suitcase since she was born, in different places all the time - at this point I'm not even considering weening her until we're nice and settled because dammit I'm the only stable thing she has in her life. /guilttrip
Frankly, I'm a bit of a prude and don't want to whip my breast out just anywhere but that whole blanket tactic? Yeah that works on three months old, but not on thirteen months olds. She'll start screaming if I cover her - so if you want peace and quiet on the flight deal with the horrors of seeing my nipple. OR yaknow, look the hell away perv!
Oversharing - my girl does this (without the smirk - ps NSFW) when feeding. And she ain't the only one. ;) god I wish she'd stop that though.
Breastfeeding is an oddly emotional issue for me. My experiences with the pro-boob juice gestapo has been so incredibly negative. Those "lactivists" can be incredibly judgmental and nasty. If you're not completely STOKED to be a never-ending beverage dispenser, you're akin to a child abuser in (some of) their eyes.
When I had to stop breastfeeding my daughter for medical reasons (painful kidney stone requiring surgery), it was suggested that I stop taking painkillers so that I could continue to nurse. A month or so later when everything was taken care of, it was suggested that I continue to "try" to feed, even though my milk had long ago dried up because "it might come back!"
So, it's always hard for me to muster support for the militants. Many just aren't very nice.
Well, I agree with you too, jrossi. Anyone who tells *anybody* how to bring up their kid is obnoxious (obvious disclaimer for abuse and all).
Parenting seems to be particularly rife with this. Oh what joy I have to look forward to. Luckily I'm a big fat know-it-all with lots and lots of opinions!
I'm all for breastfeeding wherever and whenever, but I really hope these angry parents take this a step further and boycott airlines. A 12 hour long-haul without a single screaming child? Heaven.
Those "lactivists" can be incredibly judgmental and nasty.
That's just activists in general. An awful lot of them remind me of secular evangelists. They find something that works for them and that's great but get really upset when everybody else dosen't want to follow along.
i'm sorry jrossi4r, i can only imagine the "guilt-trip" tactics that were used on you when you simply wanted support....being supportive to me means respecting another person's right to make decisions for themselves, whether or not you agree or would make the same choice for yourself...
hm! I am weighing in on this too with my own experiences. I can't help a smile too at what I read. I come from a background (believe it or not) that looked down on me for breastfeeding. Me and my sister had to fight hordes of egg-eyed aunts and cousins who thought that breast milk is so old fashioned and totally unnecessary... Can you imagine how embarrassingly defensive I got in subjects like breastfeeding in public or breast pumps? Militants exist in all camps, on any side...
I agree with taz and jrossi. I was always awkward when nursing my own kids in public-seems like I always needed two hands. I always nursed in changing rooms or even bathrooms, or just out in my car. I have plenty of friends who nursed so well that they could latch their kids on and you'd never see anything. And yet I've seen mothers literally whip out their breasts in public and pop the kid on. I guess there's all kinds, all over. Not that this helps anyone or changes anything, but as it was previously stated, there are two sides to every story. As for the initial story, I think the flight attendant was out of line.
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