They needed to edit out all Nicholson's scenes, the lame, cartoonish therapist girlfriend, snip here and there, and then they'd have a banal but watchable gangster film.

Marthin Sheen plays Marthin Sheen, Alec Baldwin plays Alec Baldwin, Marky Mark plays Marky Mark only even more assholish. Damon is still wooden. DiCaprio still hasn't a full fucking beard and he's 40.

Shallow, shallow, shallow film. Not worthy two minutes of Goodfellas.

And the final shot of the rat? It's supposed to be a Hawks hommage, but shit, it's called a hommage not a baseball bat -- you don't use them to bash people's skulls in.


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but it was nice to see that DiCaprio apparently has brains -- not just bone scraps -- in his skull

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I liked it for the most part, but I am not a huge Scorcese fan. (I thought the last half hour was gratuitous and unfocused.) And I did hate Nicholson; he's such a greaseball.

I liked the therapist, though. Not a great part, but I thought the actress did a good job.

I liked it very much, but then again, I don't have impeccable European tastes like matteo.

Baldwin has been playing that same Glengarry Glen Ross character for years. And I like it. If I were to ever get married, I want to hire him to harass my guests.

Goodfellas, on the other hand, I find unwatchable nowadays. I used to love it. And Bringing Out the Dead was the worst Scorsese flick I've seen. The Aviator and Gangs of New York also had big problems, but mostly those problems eminated from Leo. The Departed was the first time I actually liked Leo playing an adult character.

Mullacc you just reminded me that I actually saw Bringing Out the Dead. It really was horrible. The Departed has got to be better.

DiCaprio still hasn't a full fucking beard and he's 40.

40 months maybe.

Divine_Wino was raving about it to me the other day and he is a man of great intellect, impeccable taste, and superior dancing ability.

So we'll call it a split vote.

What, worse than Gangs of New York?

It's less stylish than Goodfellas for the simple reason that the contemporary Irish, Boston gangsters (and cops) are less stylish than 60s and 70s Italian, NY gangsters. The film's still beautifully shot (and edited of course), the performances are uniformly the best these actors have produced in a while, and it's a riviting film.

There are plenty of filmic references, as you'd expect from Marty, but the plot held my attention so well that I stopped looking for them and allowed myself to be caught up in the story. I plan to see it again soon so I can look around a bit more at what else Scorsese's doing.

Nicholson is finally acting instead of characaturing himself, though the acting is still over the top as you'd expect. The other characters do play more or less their stereotypical roles (except Wahlberg who delivers a portrayal of impressive depth given the lack of lines or screen time). But really, is this meant to be a criticism? DeNiro always plays DeNiro (in Scorsese films anyway). Joe Pesci is the same character in Goodfellas as in Casino. Matt Damon always works better when he's a bad guy.

Anyway, I knew I'd like it. I'm totally unsurprised that matteo didn't like it. What will be interesting is what jonmc thinks of it. (I also expected to like Gangs, but it was the worst Scorsese film ever).

BTW, I thought the accents were all over the place. Is that fair? Or do I just not have the ear for it? It seemed every now and again the actors would remember they were supposed to be Bostonians. The newly arrived Irish thug had a Glasgow accent, and Ray Winstone was all over the place.

What will be interesting is what jonmc thinks of it.

You'll have to wait awhile. I haven't seen a movie in a theatre in almost a decade.

Actually, DeNiro is very different in King of Comedy (though Pupkin is very much like Bickle) and he's unique and brilliant in Raging Bull. I still think it's unfair to say the cast of Departed are just playing themselves though. They're giving Scorsese the performances he wants. The fact that he can get a decent performance out of Nicholson shows what a great director he is.

On preview. I'm sure Divine Wino would happily see it again, jon. And this is easily Scorsese's best in over a decade. You won't regret it.

I liked the therapist, though. Not a great part, but I thought the actress did a good job.

she was indeed good, but the part is embarrassing, almost as much as a puppet as the black guy whom you just KNOW he's


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to me, the girlfriend was just there to show us how fucked up these guys are, if all the Catholic guilt thing and dying chemo old mother and the fucked up relatives and the crying madonnas didn't hammer that point home already. and her pregnancy? wtf? lamest plot point evar. I was almost hoping it would all get to a soap opera, stopping the movie in its tracks to find out who's the father. instead Scorsese stops everything to show us Nicholson impersonating a rat, covered in obviously fake blood for no reason, spreading coke all over his apartment (cleaning ladies rejoice!) while sodomizing a black hooker (the white girlfriend was for the blow jobs apparently).


impeccable European tastes

heh. I unironically love David Caruso, Jerry Lewis, Chuck Norris, Liza Minnelli, Magnum PI. and only half ironically, Barry Manilow. talk about impeccable.

ymmv, etc

:)



And Bringing Out the Dead was the worst Scorsese flick I've seen.

bad, redeemed (for me) by some attempt to be at least interesting then. but Cage makes everything unwatchable. Gangs of NY? third-best Scorsese movie after Mean Streets and Goodfellas, even better than Alice. a masterpiece, really (speaking about endings, THAT'S a genius ending).

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and in The Departed Scorsese didn't even had the balls to give us an actual all-out evil unhappy ending, he just HAD to use again Marky Mark (who had disappeared 25 minutes earlier) for Chrissakes. he had to.

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the Hong Kong original, Infernal Affairs, shits on The Departed's head. and it was directed by a nobody, not by America's greatest working film director (I consider Gilliam to be British, he has given up citizenship).


contemporary Irish, Boston gangsters (and cops) are less stylish than 60s and 70s Italian, NY gangsters.

best Irish mafia film: State of Grace. nobody saw it, sadly, and it also put Orion out of business. rent it, if you haven't seen it guys, it's a masterpiece. Joanou's lame, but you only need one masterpiece in a career. best Sean Penn ever, too.



I'm totally unsurprised that matteo didn't like it.

Good catch. But Why?


BTW, I thought the accents were all over the place.

totally. the therapist going back and forth with her accent from NJ to Boston? wtf? yeah, the accents were almost as lame as Nixon-as-Welshman in Stone's film. they all left me horrified, and I'm not even American. a Boston accent (esp Southie) is just like the generic Southern accent -- all actors really think it's easy to do. they're wrong.

and here's my top ten of Scorsese's movies:


# Mean Streets

# Goodfellas

# Gangs of New York

# Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore

# King Of Comedy

# Taxi Driver

# The Age of Innocence

# New York, New York

# The Last Temptation of Christ

# New York Stories -- Life Lessons

I'm sure Divine Wino would happily see it again, jon.

Dude, I like the Wino a lot, but since were both married it would be appropriate for us to date.

# New York Stories -- Life Lessons

written by none other than Richard Price.

yeah, and he has a cameo too, giovanni!

he usually does. In the movie of The Wanderers, he plays the dude who bankrolls the ringers in the bowling scene.

You missed My Voyage to Italy off the list. Gangs was appalling. I only saw it once, in the cinema, and even though I've been meaning to get it on DVD to give it another chance, the thought that it could turn out to be as bad as I remember has always put me off.

I'm genuinely curious as to why people liked Gangs. I thought it was an attempt to make a film that would win Marty the Oscar® he deserved. The Aviator was, I thought, in a similar vein but a much, much better film. I'll go get Gangs at the weekend and give it another go.

Departed is finally a return to Scorsese making the films he wants to make and that's why it's so good.

I'm totally unsurprised that matteo didn't like it.

Good catch. But Why?

You're an Italian living in NY aren't you? Marty goes back to doing what he does best and it's not about "Italian" mobsters, and it's not set in NY. That would, I'd expect, set up some barriers for some of his fans. It's not set in NY (as with Woody Allen, Scorsese uses the city as another regular cast member). It doesn't have Marty's mum playing some gangster's mum and serving up big bowls of sugo or whatever. You get the idea. It's missing trademark Scorsese features that you care about.

I saw Internal Affairs at a film festival and really enjoyed it, but I don't remember it well enough to be able to compare the two. Another dvd to get out.

State of Grace was really good, but not as good as The Departed. It's around here somewhere on VHS, so I'll dig (and the VCR) out too. Or maybe I'll just get that out on dvd too.

Dude, I like the Wino a lot, but since were both married it would be appropriate for us to date.
Freudian slip? Wow. Does cinema entail sex in the US? Don't people go to the movies with friends? Actually I was thinking more along the lines of the NYNY cabal bunnies going en mass before, during or after one of your drinking and eating meet-ups. If DW isn't eloquent enough to persuade you, and persuade you to see this film, then cinema is doomed.

You're an Italian living in NY aren't you?

my paisano matteo is an Italian living in Italy. Italians living in America are reffered to as Eye-Talians.

If DW isn't eloquent enough to persuade you, and persuade you to see this film, then cinema is doomed.

Oh, I'll see it, but on DVD or cable. Theatres suck. Their expensive and you can't smoke and they frown on you watching the flick in your underwear.

(and matteo, did you nab the song I emailed you about?)

It was no mean streets but I enjoyed it quite a bit, although Nicholson was way too over the top, it had no point but I enjoyed it as I would a well cooked beef stew on a cold night, it satisfied me.


State of Grace is indeed a great film, Sean Penn is excellent and likeable and Gary Oldman is a consumate madman, "hands up!"

Dude, I like the Wino a lot, but since were both married it would be appropriate for us to date.
Au contraire! You're both married, you have so much in common!

(and I'm never ever going to use "au contraire" in a non-ironic way again. Promise.)

It was, indeed, the worst Scorsese movie ever. Felt like he was parodying himself or someone else was trying to make a Scorsese pic.

However, matteo, the best Scorsese movie ever was his first: Who's That Knocking On My Door.

It doesn't have Marty's mum playing some gangster's mum and serving up big bowls of sugo or whatever.

Probably because she's dead.

You get the idea. It's missing trademark Scorsese features that you care about.

I completely disagree. It was so full of Scorsese cliches that it was laughable. The only thing missing was the slow-mo/freeze-frame. The use of music was embarassing and just seemed like it was being done because, well, that's what he does..

I have not seen Departed yet. I doubt I will soon, given there are a few movies I want to catch before that one, and I can only see few these days... But with him (as with other directors too) the farther back I go the better I like his movies (taxi driver and good fellas are my favs). I disliked Gangs of New York, for everything (Di Caprio is not a good actor, whoever the director is behind him, IMHO) but one thing: I do love that part of NY history which admittedly Scorsese described very convincingly and beautifully.

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I knew Martin Sheen was going to get killed, so I went to pee---but he hadn't died yet by the time I came back.