MetaChat - LT is Gainfully Employed and Helping People Die

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24 October 2006

LT is Gainfully Employed and Helping People Die →[More:]I have been working for a gigantor weapons builder north of where Meeks and I live for the past week. Ever wonder what the M-I Complex looks like?

Well, it's a huge warehouse about four football fields long, four football fields wide, with a cafeteria in the middle. There are four white towers in the corners of the building, each with it's own ginormous American flag out front.

Every other parcel of space is taken up with men making machine guns, grenade launchers and those big scary missile launchers that fire in circular rounds from the underside of planes.

What I Do: input data about each part as it moves through the system, so they can keep track of things. Why? Because the software they bought for 11 million dollars doesn't interface automatically with the workers efforts on the floor, so the company had to hire temps to manually input the status of each piece of weaponry as it moved from station to station.

Ever wonder where those enormous gun turrets on the front of tanks come from? They come from a huge warehouse filled with swearing blue-collar workers toiling away in a shit town in Maine.

The really sad part? The people who work there are the nicest damn folks on the planet and working for the Weapons Builder Plant is pretty much their major business option in town. The guy who trained me has been with the company since he graduated high school. Over 29 years.

Your thoughts?

post by: Lipstick Thespian at: 16:21 | 38 comments

Not one more peep from you about Starbucks!

posted by pieisexactlythree 24 October | 16:24

LT, sometimes it's just not possible to keep all the icky stuff about our culture out of your own life. Sometimes you have to focus on you, and not on whatever tiny contribution you're making to that one aspect of a really fucked up world -- because chances are that if you weren't contributing to it, you wouldn't be able to change it anyway.

Of course the people who work there are nice. They are people who care about their families and have to feed them, just like everyone else.

And working for any employer, anywhere, doing anything, has some sort of negative impact on someone. I dont' care how holy the business is. Even if it's the greenest, most conscientious, smiley-happy unicorn-friendly business, it's having some sort of negative impact -- maybe it has an asphalt parking lot, or it put its competitor out of business.

Don't worry about it. Just be a good guy and be good to your girl and take GD's money so y'all can do fun things. That's the only way you'll ever stick it to them.

And by the way, the Stealth Bomber put me through college. I feel uneasy about that, but I'm happy not to have student loans to pay back.

posted by mudpuppie 24 October | 16:25

Modern life is a series of more or less grotesque compromises. I trust you will take the king's shilling just exactly as long as you need to and then move on, the whole while being good to your co-workers and making the best of the experience.

posted by Divine_Wino 24 October | 16:27

Thanks for listening you guys. This really squicks me out. I won't get into a big thing about it ala My Patented Starbucks Rant(tm), but man, it's creeeeeeeeeeeepy.

posted by Lipstick Thespian 24 October | 16:36

LT, my dear, what pup said is exactly what I was thinkin'. I'm glad you're employed. You're great.

Now, I want to know how a stealth bomber put you through college, pup.

Also, Tom texted me yesterday (after completing his second move in a month) to say thank you to you guys for helping with the first move. It was far beyond what any house guest should have to do. And thank you, from me too.

posted by Specklet 24 October | 16:37

Not that interesting of a story, speck. My dad worked on the B-2 project for most of my teenage years. He actually helped design the thing, which I'm not really proud to admit. He never could tell us what he was working on, be we went to the big unveiling -- the one in TX, not the one in the desert -- upon which he could finally tell us why he had been working 80 hours a week for the past umpteen years. Upshot is, his salary from working on that evil beast was the source of my college fund.

So my point to LT is, you're entitled to have a problem with what GD does -- and you'd be less of a person if you didn't. But it's still okay to focus on yourself in this situation. Most jobs are only good for the paycheck, anyway.

posted by mudpuppie 24 October | 16:47

Might I suggest a holloween costume... ; )

≡ Click to see image ≡

posted by Pips 24 October | 16:49

If you've got a problem with it, quit. No one's holding a gun to your head and making you work there.

posted by matildaben 24 October | 16:52

LT, as a college graduate I was recruited pretty heavily by the industrial side of the military-industrial complex; I can totally empathize. Most engineers rationalize: They're just trying to make the weapons more efficient, and thus much safer for civilians!

I took a job at an R&D firm that, although it does contract work for the military, focuses on personnel support systems, which help keep soldiers alive instead of helping to make other people dead. I feel a lot better about this choice than I would have felt working for Raytheon.

Because the software they bought for 11 million dollars doesn't interface automatically with the workers efforts on the floor
Heh. Completely typical.

posted by muddgirl 24 October | 17:12

LT I did a six month stint at Lockheed Martin a couple years ago. and yeah it was a temp job doing data entry.

the supervisor at that place was the coolest boss I've ever worked for. 72 year old retired master sergeant from rural Louisiana who looked like every caricaturist's idea of a 1950's military engineer, right down to the flattop and horn rimmed glasses. I don't even begin to understand how we got along but good lord could that guy kick ass, not to mention being one of the smartest and most motivated/ing individuals I've ever had the privilege to have as my boss.

sorry you've got the squicks from working there. perhaps you could view it as a covert ops philosophical / sociological research project? I do know I got a little tired of the endless conservative rhetoric at LM (and the military fratboy humour, too) however it *did* give me a far better understanding of 'how the other side thinks', so to speak.

posted by lonefrontranger 24 October | 17:13

No one's going to hold a gun to your head

You're right, Mats. They have to build them first. And I'm the one telling them when they're actually ready to be held.

Good point.

posted by Lipstick Thespian 24 October | 17:17

LT, can you pilfer some C-4, a detonator and a belt for me. I'm...uh..going duck hunting.

posted by jonmc 24 October | 17:18

No, Run-JMC, but I can get you a grenade launcher that fires 20 rounds a second.

posted by Lipstick Thespian 24 October | 17:32

does it have an upward accuracy of say...8 floors? I'm just curious.

posted by jonmc 24 October | 17:34

≡ Click to see image ≡

posted by essexjan 24 October | 17:34

I encountered this on the way home, too:

≡ Click to see image ≡
Meditations and Cremations. Two Great Tastes That Taste Great Together.

posted by jonmc 24 October | 17:40

I also love this:

≡ Click to see image ≡
It's outside a bar where you can pay to dance with a girl in a bikini. Woo-Woo. Wild & Crazy.

posted by jonmc 24 October | 17:42

Greek women?

posted by pieisexactlythree 24 October | 17:59

Due respect, jon, this thread was about LT's concerns about his job, not signs in your neighborhood.

posted by mudpuppie 24 October | 18:11

I'm just trying to cheer him up. (and this site isn't blue, I thought thread drift was OK.)

Greek women?

Greek neighboorhood.

posted by jonmc 24 October | 18:18

I know the feeling LT; I used to do DARPA contracting, and I know that software I write ends up being used by intelligence agencies as well as the military. It's an uncomfortable spot to be in, but you'll be able to quit before you know it.

posted by cmonkey 24 October | 18:27

Agreed. This is much more of an issue if you're a lifer at one of these firms. It's not like you had better alternatives at the moment, right? This is really only a problem once the opportunity cost begins to mount, and for that to happen, there need to be other options available.

posted by pieisexactlythree 24 October | 18:36

Yay job! If you're working where I think you're working, a lot of my friends' dads work there. It's a hell of a commute from my hometown in central NH, but you can't beat union wages working on the assembly line...anyway, rest assured that you are, indeed working with some very good peeps, even if the company itself is somewhat evil.

posted by SassHat 24 October | 18:53

Sorry to hear that you're uncomfortable with your current job.

If you weren't doing it, then someone else would be at your job.

Given that, is there any way you can make the lives of your coworkers better?

Since you're not in the position to relieve suffering/pain associated with your job (and those ills* are at least second or even third order outcomes) you, at least, have the ability to minimize suffering and increase wellbeing locally.

Yay utilitarianism!

*I won't play word games or get into debates, but... yes, weapons can cause suffering and death. Weapons, however, can also be used to prevent suffering and death. Alternatively, is there anything you can do to make sure the buyers of those weapons will use them for the later intention than the former?

posted by porpoise 24 October | 19:25

This is much more of an issue if you're a lifer at one of these firms. It's not like you had better alternatives at the moment, right?

Before you categorize lifers as uncaring war-mongerers and profiteers, think about the areas these companies operate in. Many of these lifers have no other alternatives-no college options, limited job opportunities. Small towns are often limited as to what they can offer their inhabitants, and often once they land jobs with benefits, it becomes hard to leave. A steady job is a steady job-one that pays the bills and keeps a roof over your head. The company is supplying a demand, that's all. It would be nice not to need these weapons, wonderful in fact, but the world has never been peaceful and has always had war somewhere.

posted by redvixen 24 October | 19:32

LT, as far as I am concerned, a fella's gotta eat. If you can get paid well and do good karmic shit with your pay, and your life, because they are there so be it. If you can get paid as well, and do all the same cool shit working for someone who doesn't make stuff that is used for the kabooming of people on the other side of the world, all the better.

But, like matildaben said, we all have our limits, and if you can't sleep at night, you'll know it, and you'll quit. Of course, I think I'm paraphrasing, but you know what I mean.

posted by richat 24 October | 19:51

Before you categorize lifers as uncaring war-mongerers and profiteers...
Remind me where I said that. I recall no such thing.

posted by pieisexactlythree 24 October | 20:05

easy, pieisexactlythree, I think vixen was just trying to make sure nobody thought that is all.

posted by jonmc 24 October | 20:07

Yee-ha! : )

≡ Click to see image ≡

posted by Pips 24 October | 20:26

(truly happy for you and Miko, by the by... : )

posted by Pips 24 October | 20:31

Thanks Pips!

Yeah! Wacky sitcome plotline! Crunchy Quaker girl meets boy, boy gets employed by Merchant of Death. Hijinks ensue!

Anyway, as I've said, life is complex. This is exactly why the problems of militarism aren't easy to solve. Good people serve in the military out of good motives, and good people work at these plants out of good motives. What disturbs me most about the whole story is the $11 million contract for a computer system that doesn't work -- without doubt a remunerative deal at high levels, a boon to shareholders of both companies, but a failure on the factory floor.

All we can do is keep on keeping on, not altering our beliefs but doing what is necessary at the time with respect for one another. LT's short term at this place will be an experience to grow from, and will never outweigh the other cumulative effects of his life. Any more than my dad's two Viet Nam tours outweigh the rest of his life as a pacifist and Veteran for Peace. IT's just a window into the System -- much better to know what it's really about than to critique from a safe distance, anyway.

posted by Miko 24 October | 21:48

I started a degree five years ago with dreams of getting hired by any given Big Plane Builder, but in the back of my mind I always hated the fact that I'd end up involved with things that, while shiny and fast and powerful and neat, in the end were just very flashy ways to kill people. Also, as I went on, it became very clear that chances weren't so much that I'd end up designing fighter jets as that I'd end up running tests on a subsystem to run tests on a subsystem of a support plane. Which is where I started getting more involved with the space end of things, and wishing my department paid as much attention to space exploration and systems as it did on aircraft.

Why do they make fighter planes so pretty?

Not sure even now exactly why I stayed with my major to the end, but I'm still including the Big Plane Builders in my job search, because they're still the ones most likely to want someone with my degree, and if they do hire me for anything (before some smaller, cooler, politically/environmentally cleaner place does, and I really hope I find one that does) all I can do is swear to everyone I know not to create $11 million systems that don't work. And if I get hired as nothing higher than a weapons assembler, I can at least do my best to make sure whatever it is I'm building doesn't blow up in the wielder's face instead.

posted by casarkos 24 October | 22:38

In the future, all our wars will be fought by giant robots, which the Japanese call mecha.

posted by pieisexactlythree 25 October | 00:40

all I can do is swear to everyone I know not to create $11 million systems that ~~don't~~ work. ;)

posted by trondant 25 October | 01:40

Make of this what you will. In my experience, there's always been some sort of karmic payback, as it were, taking on jobs that I thought were (for me) morally questionable, but I figured that going into it... then, maybe that's just me.
You are consciencious, and smart. If Stanislav Petrov wasn't, we wouldn't be here. Period. It could be that a similar situation applies.

posted by Zack_Replica 25 October | 01:48

Hi LT

The traditional approach to assuaging such guilt is charitable donation. American Friends Service Committee, the War Resister's League, the ACLU, and many other groups could benefit from your donation.

posted by By the Grace of God 25 October | 06:33

All I can think of is Why We Fight.

posted by chewatadistance 25 October | 07:06

casarkos: Don't give up on your dream. Just last month, Lockheed Martin was awarded the contract to build this. If you want to work in Denver or Houston, get your resume in now!

posted by Doohickie 25 October | 11:01

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