Me smart! Yes, true.

*hits those who disagree with club*

::favorited::

Can people "cheat", seeming more intelligent than they really are, or "cheat" to make you underestimate their intelligence?

I have done both. Although ultimately, I find that whether or not someone comes off smart (or not so smart) is in the eye of the beholder, and what the beholder thinks of his own intelligence in comparison to the person in question. The people who I've found think I'm scary smart tend to not think so highly of their own smarts, and the people who think I lean a little more towards average often have extremely high opinions of their own intellect. I guess what I'm trying to say is, the person either trying to impress you with his smartness or play it down has to take his audience into account.

I guess I should clarify: it's harder to cheat people who think they're smart (but aren't necessarily as smart as they think) into thinking you're smart.

I never understood what "smart" is and what "intelligence" is. I can pretty much tell if someone is educated, but not if they're smart. In fact, I've come to the conclusion that people are all pretty much as smart as each other. Everyone has gaps and there are minor variations across mental skill-sets, but that's it.

Of course, this may just mean I'm dumber than everyone else. Which is a worrying thought.

I tend to spend the most energy and time at doing things I can appear smart at, and at getting better at these things.

Oooh, hold on to your hats kids. Big issue for me.

Smart does not equal educated. Smart is all in the eyes.

Stand back, rainbaby is going to say something politically incorrect. I have encountered women whom I have been thrown into close proximity with, who, through their good looks and good study habits, have achieved a level of education that should classify them as smart, but they aren't. They run around with a panicked look in their eyes and have a nervous disposition, like over bread small dogs. I cannot tolerate these people.

My circle of intimates is fairly small, because I can't let anyone in who isn't at a certain level of smart.

I have a very close girlfriend who is smart but thinks she's not. She is blonde and big busted, and probably has gotten away with shit in her life by playing the dumb card. And yeah, of my inner sanctum, she probably is slightly behind in the IQ department. But she is very socially adept, high emotional IQ (which I lack), and I simply bust her on playing dumb. Every time she says "I'm such a dink" or something, I make a habit to correct her. Sometimes she says dumb stuff, but it's all in an effort to smooth social transactions - better for her to say something off the cuff and be wrong than for nobody to say anything or her not to speak to ease whatever social transaction is occurring. And she is "dumb" about men, but it's due to her warm and trusting nature. I love her, but she is not dumb.

I have never been intellectually intimidated by anyone, although I have met two or three people who made me think, dang, they are smarter than I am.

I am a bit smarter than my husband and my (male) best friend. They concede that, but the differences are small, and the whole emotional IQ thing comes into play big time. I need those people in my life, because that is not my strength.

People who read are smart. People who metachat are smart. Most people who metafilter are smart, if they aren't, they won't stick around long.

Un-PC-ly, again, I think women are generally smarter than men, but also are more head-fucked about being smart or not, and play more games and roles about their own intelligence. A less smart man has an easier way in the world, to a certain point. Free to be charming or useful, instead, and is comfortable with that.

I don't have time for dumb people. I have limited emotional resources, and I'm not going to waste them. Maybe I've missed out on some wisdom along the way for this habit, but it's the way I am.

Pile on with the responses to my controversial comments, please!

People who metachat are smart.

*picks nose, smears against wall*

I don't have time for dumb people.

Depends on what kinda dumb you mean. If you mean truly stupid, I'm with you. If you mean what I call 'stoopid,' meaning merely unrefined and silly, well, that can be a blast.

All I'm saying, jonmc, is that if you look in their eyes and see panic at your statements or conversation, I don't have time. It just leads to drama.

Also, yes I am aware of different kinds of smarts. Like I said, the husband can A: Talk to people better than I, and B: Make and fix things. Do plumbing. Spatial stuff that I am hopeless at. It's a good relationship. He fixes the house, I edit his written word and expound upon Big Concepts. (And he is Not Dumb, by any means.)

Pile on with the responses to my controversial comments, please!

Will the busty blonde be at the pile on?

All I'm saying, jonmc, is that if you look in their eyes and see panic at your statements or conversation, I don't have time.

I think all of us have a point where our eyes glaze over and we yearn to go play with our rubber ball. I know it happens to me on MeFi a lot. But I guess a smart person's level for that is higher than others. (And if given the choice between hanging out with a genius-IQ raging asshole and a not-too-bright decent guy, I'd take the dumb one, but in the best of all combos, there's smarts and likability)

Someone in that thread made a comment about being smart including having a good memory. I'm pretty smart (I think), but I don't think I have a good memory. The good part of that is that I can enjoy whodunits over and over and over again. But I do kind of worry about it, especially since I imagine it would get worse as I get older. Maybe I should lay off smoking that, um, what do you call it?

matildaben is totally smart.

The good part of that is that I can enjoy whodunits over and over and over again.

Hee. Me too.

Also "me too" on the memory failing more recently, though mine used to be extremely good. I've decided to decide that I simply have a good mind for the "big picture" and other people need to do things like remember the details, because that attitude seems to get people to the top surprisingly often.

And I'm going to the top, baby!

Also, I care less about people looking panicky when I talk and more about people looking confused. At which point I don't necessarily assume they're dumb, but I do start to downshift how much of my thoughts I'm willing to share. Which is no fun.

Actually, at that point I do totally assume they're dumb. Because I am a total intellectual snob, and I'm getting less embarassed about admitting that.

well, occhi, sometimes it might just be unfamiliarity with the subject matter. I'm occaionally lost in some of the more advanced scientific or philosophical posts at MeFi, and I'm not dumb by any stretch, it's just the jargon and concepts are unfamiliar to me. I'm sure some of my posts or comments about music might baffle some, which is why I always try to do a little exposition and be willing to clarify things.

seanyboy: In fact, I've come to the conclusion that people are all pretty much as smart as each other.

I totally just said this in the thread! Also I've known a lot of economically disadvantaged people who treat their intellectual activity as a personal one and not anything relevant to their role in the workforce or their interactions with people with more money or better status than they.

There's too many kinds of smart: Jeopardy Smart, Lawyer Smart, Analytical Smart, Tech Smart, Life Smart, Creative Smart, etc. ...and all sorts of combo-packs of smart. You would have to narrow it down pretty specifically, and then you could probably ask a question or set a task that would give you a fair idea if the person is smart enough in precisely the way you're looking for.

But otherwise, I would say "no".

Oh - and as to cheating... Sure, people can cheat at seeming smart. The question is, how long can they keep it up? If they can keep it up indefinitely, then their kind of smart works as a pretty good substitute - at least for their purposes.

well, occhi, sometimes it might just be unfamiliarity with the subject matter.

Yes, of course. But there are smart (uninformed) people who can then ask smart questions, and there are smart (informed) people who can then intelligently explain what's going on. I find that if I'm speaking to someone who can't do one or the other, I'm probably going to downgrade them on what I'd call "intelligence." They may be well-informed, but if they're unable or unwilling to explain to someone they're engaged with, then they're either posing or too arrogant to matter. If they're lost and don't say, "Hey, I'm not quite following, back up," then they're not comfortable enough with their own intelligence to admit they don't know things.

Which is fine, but I just find that if you're not willing to explain well or ask well, then I'm unlikely to have a particularly deep intellectual connection with you.

And this doesn't apply so much to MeFi or online discussions, I'm talking face-to-face, one-on-one or small groups. Large group dynamics can make what I'm talking about unweildy.

On preview: But I also agree with what taz is saying, that my conditions don't mean someone's somehow "universally smart." This is just how I tend to figure out who I enjoy being around in my own social circle.

It actually occurs to me that this:

If they're lost and don't say, "Hey, I'm not quite following, back up," then they're not comfortable enough with their own intelligence to admit they don't know things.

might actually be more that I know someone's smart when he or she is able to understand that I'm explaining something badly, rather than assuming that the fault lies with the listener. People who just nod as if they do understand rather than challenging me when they don't tend to seem, at least to me, less intelligent.

(This is assuming that I'm not simply boring the pants off someone, who has retreated into glazed-eyed suicidal surrender in an attempt to get me to shut up.)

Rainbaby, that's quite a compliment coming from your smart little self. Thanks!

When I first read the question "who's smart", the first person that popped into my mind was occhiblu. Well, and ikkyu2 as well. If they ever have kids, watch out, world!

I actually consider myself a big-picture person as well. I'm pretty great at making connections between concepts in divergent areas. Sometimes I feel like I don't have any original ideas of my own, though. Maybe that's just because they seem perfectly obvious to me.

I grew up being the smartest one around, and then in high school there were maybe one or two people that I thought were significantly smarter than me, and then in college there were quite a bunch, and by grad school I thought I was perfectly average compared to the others. And now I work in high tech so I'm surrounded by smarties. I actually quite like being in the middle of the curve - learning something new every day is much preferable to looking around at a bunch of dummies and wondering why they don't get it.

They run around with a panicked look in their eyes and have a nervous disposition, like over bread small dogs. I cannot tolerate these people.


I totally know what you mean rainbaby. Although I don't think they're dumb, just a lot more socially pressured than me. I don't have the time to hold their hand as they freak over every little thing (I encountered girls and boys like this a lot in college - after a while I just had to say, "Look, I'm sorry you're having a nervous break down because you have a lot of stuff on your plate, but so do the rest of us, and I just don't have time for this.")

I know someone's smart when he or she is able to understand that I'm explaining something badly, rather than assuming that the fault lies with the listener.

This reminds me of something that happened when I was about twelve, reading an article in one of my grandfather's shelf of old Art In America magazines. For the first time ever it dawned on me that the article was unclear and badly written, and that it wasn't just me. I couldn't make sense of it because the article simply didn't make sense.

It was kind of a heady moment. I felt relieved, outraged, and very confident and excited to have been able to reach that conclusion.

To tell the truth, I'm still not sure whether I'm actually smart or I just have a good memory and a with words.

a way with words, dammit. Let's hear it for irony.

mats (and others, of course), you might really like the book An Intimate History of Humanity, by Theodore Zeldin. It's weird in the way that only the French can be, but he deals a lot (if I'm remembering correctly) with the idea of people as facilitators or liaisons, and how that role is going to become vitally important both psychologically and politically/economically.

I don't know that he's right, necessarily, about some of his conclusions about how this might play out in the real world, but I thought it was fascinating how he focuses on people who bring other people or ideas together -- whether socially or professionally -- as creators themselves. I think we do tend to think of that as "secretarial," in some sense, and he really points out that being able to see who or what should go together, and creating the environment in which people or ideas can relate to each other, is a creation itself. He also talks about how not recognizing the importance of this can make people (and especially women) feel psychologically incomplete.

It's looooooong and very French, but I loved it enough that it was vacation reading a few years back.

(Also, thanks for the compliment!)

Everybody owns a healthy but unique range of dumbfuckery.

Thanks, occhi. I kind of saw myself in that Malcolm Gladwell article about "6 Degrees of Lois Weisberg", about people who connect other people. Although Jessamyn's really that person extraordinaire in my community. But it's true that I am only one degree of separation away from her.

looking around at a bunch of dummies and wondering why they don't get it.

Yeah, that would suck.

it's been said before, there are different kinds of smart. i personally prefer the less-smart variety of person with class, then the book-smart type who isn't very good at conversation, who stand waiting for a skittish look...usually brought on by the bookish-smartish non conversationalist's lack of manners or interest in a conversation once it ceases to be one they can use to look Smart.
hehehe...of course, if i ever encounter those smarty, rude types that have no idea how to carry on a normal conversation & hope to get rid of them quick, i just bring up my children, talk about them ad nauseam until their eyes glass over or they grow skittish-eyed like an over bred small dog...eventually those types will just walk away.
i fake dumb better then anyone i know ;)