and another...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdVucvo-kDU

I sent imrational (creator of the FPP video) this response:

Point by point comments about "Why do Atheists care about Religion":

1. Atheist Boy Scouts: An excellent point. As a Christian, I find it appalling that atheist Eagle Scouts have been stripped of their rank and removed from membership and adult leadership positions in Boy Scouts. There are various religious badges that may be earned by Boy Scouts. One of them is for Buddhism, which is an atheistic philosophy. But because they do not generally self-identify as atheists, most Christians are too ignorant to know this and they are accepted. I believe an atheist can "do his duty to God" by honoring, above all, the human intellect as the highest form of intelligence in the known universe. He can follow the Scout Law of Reverence by being thoughtful of other's beliefs (something BSA leadership does NOT do when it bars atheist scouts).

2. Cannot hold public office/testify in 7 states: Another excellent point. There is no reason why atheists should be prevented from these activities based on their atheism alone. Despite what George Sr. says, atheists should be accorded full participation as U.S. citizens.

3. Blue Laws: A valid, but increasingly irrelevant point, since Blue Laws are being overturned and are often not enforced.

4. Pledge of Allegiance: I agree; "Under God" should be removed an the pledge restored to its original wording.

5. In God We Trust on money: So what? How does this injure an atheist?

6. Christian nation: True, but... many provisions of the U.S. Constitution come from the Presbyterian Church, whose polity is based on the notion that humans are not perfect in governance and no one person should be given absolute power because after all, we're only human. One name given by the British to the uprising that led to American independence, incidentally, was "The Presbyterian Revolt".

7. Treaty of Tripoli: "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion..." I have heard this cited by atheists previously. I would be interested in learning more about the treaty and the context in which it was written. There may have been a valid diplomatic reason for making this assertion in the treaty, even it weren't believed to be true by those who wrote it. Diplomacy is funny that way. This is one instance of an official document denying a connection with Christianity. However, other documents refer to God, the Creator, etc. So there is a dichotomy here. Many of the founding fathers were Christian but were careful to make this country's government religion-neutral. But I'm not sure the intent was to ban all religious language from official public life. This is a matter of opinion, though, that is viewed differently depending on one's philosophical background.

8. Founding fathers that were not Christian and did not want one religion favored over others. Agreed. However, many of founding fathers cited as non-Christian in the video did, in fact, belong to Christian sects. Thomas Jefferson is a good example, as he was an active Anglican. I, as a Presbyterian, question many commonly held tenets of the Christian faith, including miracles, the concept of the Trinity, and even the divinity of Christ. I do this with an honest conscious, seeking the truth. Some people might look at things I say and do as antagonistic toward Christian beliefs, yet I am still a Christian. So it was, I believe, with many of the founding fathers.

9. Teaching creationism/intelligent design in public schools: I agree with you 100% there, pal.

10. National policy set by "religious fervor": Again, I agree with you.

11. Religious fanatics committing violent acts: I think religion, in cases like that, is a tool, misused and manipulated for political gain. Without religion, disaffected people would still lash out against institutions they feel are persecuting them.

12. Distrust of atheists: I agree with you there, also. In my experience, Christians are far less trustworthy than atheists; the more devout they are, the more easily they feel they feel they can bend the rules for their own (religious) ends.

Second video was not as good as the first, imo.

Amazingly generous reaction, Doohickie. I applaud you.

I've talked about the currency "In God We Trust" thing with my cousin as well. She shares your "what's the big deal?" point of view. It's not really a big deal. It's just one of those details. It's hard to be atheist and be a patriot when your country's "official" stuff has religious trappings on it. Makes you feel excluded, etc. Move to a theocracy for a while and it might make more sense. We're supposed to be a melting pot, an open society with a separation of church & state. The currency is pretty important on a symbolic way. A few "meaningless" symbols can set the tone and open the door for more meaningful changes.

I think it's kind of overstating it to say that the US was not founded on the Christian religion. In fact, a lot of what we consider "separation of church and state" flowed from the intra-christian persecution that plagued England and the rest of Europe. In a way, separation of church and state was brought about to protect christian people and their right to belong to their denomination/church. Now that Christians are a little more unified/monolithic in the US, some of them see separation of church and state as oppressive or silly. Just funny how things change.

Don't let this asstheist tell our kids they're not allowed to pray in school whenever they want.

Why's he want to outlaw Christmas anyway, is it just because he hates it unless everyone else is miserable like him?

Why can't he just let Christians alone?

In his new book, Letters to a Christian Nation author Sam Harris follows up on correspondence he had with readers of his 2005 book, The End of Faith and makes additional compelling arguments for limiting the role of religion in public life. Interviewed on NPR's Talk of the Nation on Monday and Tuesday, the programs are worth a listen.

Blue Laws: A valid, but increasingly irrelevant point, since Blue Laws are being overturned and are often not enforced.

Try to buy liquor on a Sunday in MA. Try to go shopping in Bergen County, NJ, on a Sunday.

In God We Trust on money: So what? How does this injure an atheist?

Because we don't trust in God. We don't even believe in him. I'd prefer the currency went back to its original motto: Mind Your Business.

In God We Trust on money: So what? How does this injure an atheist?

Would you be OK with "God is an Imaginary Sky-Wizard" or "And on the third day, Jesus rotted" printed on currency?

If not, why not? How would that injure a Christian?

Why do Atheists care about Religion? I don't consider myself an atheist but I find them terribly agreeable people

Depends on the type of athiest. The ones who are real annoying about it, I could do without, but that's an aesthetic objection not a moral one.

Why do Atheists care about Religion?

One other reason is strong atheism is just as much of a religion as Christianity or Buddism. So they suffer from all the unreasoned faith and zealotism that goes along with it.

atheism is just as much of a religion

Perhaps not the phrasing I'd choose, but I agree it IS a system of beliefs. People always argue that it's not, because atheists resort to science, and science isn't a belief system. I still think that in practice, science is a belief system because very few folks have a background of the testing and direct observation required for it to be more than that. You go into a building and some men tell you how the world works. You believe them. What they tell you is remarkably consistent with the world outside. That's science. It's also pretty much how religion works.

Agnostics are the only ones I would say don't have a belief system.

Agnostics are the only ones I would say don't have a belief system.

Huh???

That wasn't an insult to Agnostics. My understanding (and I could be wrong) is that they forestall any decision on what belief system is correct, and operate without one, relying on personal principles of right and wrong, etc, without trying to put everything in a big framework. They choose not to subscribe to a belief system.

Now that Christians are a little more unified/monolithic in the US,

Say what? I, as a Christian, have almost nothing in common philosophically with the whole Bible thumpin' crowd. Additionally, as groups, there is no love lost between Catholics and Baptists. Most KKK identify as Protestant Christians and Catholics were frequently lynching victims. Doesn't happen so much any more, but the enmity is still present.

Would you be OK with "God is an Imaginary Sky-Wizard" or "And on the third day, Jesus rotted" printed on currency?

If not, why not? How would that injure a Christian?

Hey, if some state wants to put that on their state quarter, I'll still spend it. It really doesn't matter to me. Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and all that.

Doesn't happen so much any more

That's all I meant. Intra-christian fueding seems to be at a relatively low historical level, and there are some major coalitions among them that have traction and are getting shit done. Wasn't always that way.