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07 July 2006
How come rivers and oceans are referred to with a definite article (the Mississippi, the Pacific), while lakes skip the article and go straight for the descriptor "Lake" (Lake Michigan)?
I think it's because they are saying "The Mississippi River" or "The Pacific Ocean". The word "Lake" comes first in most lakes. You don't say "The River Ohio" but you do say "The River Styx." On the other hand, you do say "The Great Salt Lake".
As far as I can tell, Canadians say "in hospital" where USAians say "in the hospital". And Canadians say "at university" where USAians say "in college." This may be regional, though, I don't have a large enough sample to tell.
The "in the hospital" thing is American; "in hospital" is British; I have no idea which one Canadians use, but I'm willing to believe matildaben, cuz she's trustworthy like that.
But I don't think the lake thing is just because "Lake" comes first. As you pointed out, "river" can kinda go on either side of the name (the River Seine, the Seine River).
And an internet search turns up no good reasons, but this interesting list:
Some examples of definite artical usage:
geographical features: the Equator, the North Pole...
oceans and seas: the Atlantic, the Pacific, the Mediterranean...
rivers: the Thames, the Seine, the Rhine...
regions: the south, the north west, the Lake District...
celestial bodies: the Sun, the Moon, the Earth, the Milky Way... (but NOT the other planets, eg NOT the Mars, the Mecrury...)
most newspapers: the Sun, the Mirror, the Times, the New York Post...
hotels: the Ritz, the Savoy...
Articles are NOT used with:
continents;
cities;
most countries (some exceptions are the US, the UK, the Republic of Ireland...)
Maybe there is a size thing. . .Waldo Lake, Crater Lake, Clear Lake, Donner Lake, etc. are smaller than Lake Michigan, Lake Erie, Lake Baikal, Glacial Lake Missoula.
Or maybe it's just how it rolls off the tongue. . .
occhiblu - don't trust me on the Canadian thing. The first person I noticed saying that actually had British parents, so it could be a Britishism that I just thought was Canadian.
I love The Nickel Creek too, rainbaby. Yeah, seen 'em live, and they're awesome.
Okay, so there's another point -- creeks. Most creek names are followed by "creek," just like rivers. Some near me: Cache Creek, Putah Creek (yes, really), Walnut Creek. But you don't say "I'm going fishing on the Cache."
This may well have something to do with Romance language word gender. For example, in French, you say la riviere but le lac. English tends to reverse some French-derived word order -- e.g. the ____ Woods vs. le Bois du ____. That may influence whether articles are used.
bean, you're right about the hospital thing. It was probably picked up from the Brits. You'll also hear "shedule" just about as often as "skedule" (schedule). At least Canucks know how to pronounce aluminum. But they lose points with "ashfalt". It's asphalt, people!
mullac, I've had lots of people tease me about saying "the 101" or "the 5" or "the Ventura Freeway". I think it's a SoCal thing.
I think it's a waterway thing. Most lakes are not travel routes, but especially historically, a lot of rivers have been used for transport, as have oceans, seas, and larger lakes (The Caspian Sea is often said to actually be a very large lake). So while that doesn't answer the question as to why various transportation routes receive a definite article (the definite article, really, since there's only the one), it does explain the difference between the two, particularly in historically English-speaking countries. I don't know enough about other countries to know how much they apply definite articles to their bodies of water, but would be interested to know, if anyone does.
It's definitely a SoCal thing to use an article before a freeway (not highway or expressway) number and I suspect that it's because SoCalians place so much emphasis on driving to get places that we give them that much "respect". Or cred. Or whatever.
I was thinking also about numerality, but failed to connect it to transportation. Specifically, I was thinking of the number accessible to overland travellers, but though some lakes are accessible from others via creeks, streams, and rivers; your average "large pond" lake is not joined by major water arteries. So while you may have many rivers and many lakes in an area, if you travelled via river, you're going to encounter more than one. Usually, if you go to a lake, that's the lake you're going to; no definite article needed. You don't go from lake to lake to lake (not without going on a river), but you do go from river to river to river. So in Pittsburgh, you wouldn't say you're going up river, because someone would ask you which river. It's indefinite, and is resolved with a definite article: The Allegheny or The Monongahela. If you're on a lake, and you're going across the lake, people don't ask you which lake.
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