MetaChat - This is an emotionally embarrassing AskMeCha.

You're not a bad person, dame. You have your faults, but so does everybody, but generally you're good to people that you consider friends. In the way of constructive criticism, I'd say that you can be a little vocally judgemental and a little attention hungry, and that can put some people off maybe, but as long as you're conscious of it, it can be worked on.

posted by jonmc 27 June | 09:56

I think it's one of those things that sort of happens to everyone. Like, I changed jobs in December, and I knew lots of people at the old office, and some of us sort of keep in touch, but some of that is dying a little ::shrugs:: Moving a lot as a child taught me that sometimes friendships end when people move (physically or emotionally, what have you) and that that can be OK- it's not necessarily a bad thing.

posted by ThePinkSuperhero 27 June | 10:03

You've posted some comments since you came back on that have been very judgmental and angry, and I felt rather put off by them (for instance, soccer). Other people have also privately mentioned that they were put off by the same comments (don't ask me who; I really can't remember). I know you're a really smart and well-rounded person, so I give you the benefit of the doubt, but I think putting yourself in the shoes of the person who is receiving your comments before you let them come out of your mouth/keyboard would serve you well.

You also tend to defend your verbal anger on the cultural grounds of being a New Yorker, but the internet is multicultural (including laid-back west-coasters), and also one-dimensional, so it's easy for people to see your comments in a very different light than the one in which you may have intended them.

posted by matildaben 27 June | 10:03

You're a good egg. We've all got things we are good at and things we are not so good at, the effort is what matters.

A fair subset of people I've known beyond the acquaintance stage, maybe say one in ten, seem to randomly stop talking to me after a few months of being friends.

One in ten seems like you actually have a high retention rate. I wouldn't want to have to talk to nine new people every few months. Geh, people.

Go have a spumoni and wink at someone, you'll be fine.

posted by Divine_Wino 27 June | 10:17

You're a good egg.

You call people eggs a lot. I blame some trauma during your hatching.

posted by jonmc 27 June | 10:19

My opinion about you changed when you claimed that any americans who claim to like soccer are faking it. I thought that was an extremely rude and ignorant thing to say. (Especially so, since I really do like soccer. Ghana/Brazil is on my office TV right now, and I rescheduled two meetings just to watch it uninterrupted.)

Prior to that, I just noticed you because of a few posts you made about swimming and such (something I also enjoy).

After that, I noticed a fair bit of semi-judgemental content, and to be perfectly honest... though you were (to use your words) an alienating jerk (though not a giant one).

posted by I Love Tacos 27 June | 10:21

Oh, and btw, the fact that you're asking this question helps swing my opinion back away from alienating jerk.

posted by I Love Tacos 27 June | 10:22

Don't know you very well but thanks for your help with swimming advice!

posted by grouse 27 June | 10:41

Listen to the people who know you in real life, it's a real life question.

Sure, On line, You seem opinionated and ornery, but you know what? So what, that's what. It's either who you are, or who you've decided to be. Not all women are nurturers or what have you. That's ok.

And yes, I think it happens to everyone.

posted by rainbaby 27 June | 10:43

I think you're cool, and I'd like to take you up on that beer after I get off work on Monday (July 3), if you're still interested, maybe in Queens, maybe Brooklyn again. I'll call you later. Chin up, sweetheart. You're less of a jerk than I am.

posted by Hugh Janus 27 June | 10:45

dame, I gotta agree with rainbaby. I do think this is more meatspace thing. Online is not the same as real life, and for all those who think you are harsh due to the mouthy soccer stuff, (which I also thought was a little mouthy, but have known you long enough to not worry about) there are others in the online world, like me, who don't take it too hard.

But, that's a terrible sentence, I am am pretty sure the editor in you won't be able to like me after see that piece of shit sentence.

And now, the piece de resistance, an emoticon:

:-D

posted by richat 27 June | 10:53

Hah @ richat. Or 2 richat? I loves me some emoticons, this being my favorite: 0_o

Dame said:

Many of you actually know me in real life, so I thought maybe you could help.

so I think she's trying to get rl friends to offer their opinions.

Dame, I think you should ask your ex-friends what happened. Everything else is just speculation, isn't it?

posted by iconomy 27 June | 11:02

dame, I had read your comments here and in MeFi before (for a very long time) and I got the impression that you like to come off as ...snobbish or tough or at least cynical. I do not know if you are like that, but you seem(ed) to want us to think that.
I mean come on, this is your MetaChat profile:

I live in bestest borough of the bestest city ever. I'm a hypocondriac with a swimming fixation and a bad attitude. I probably don't like you.

If you want to appear toughie, you got to let to get toughed back and not mind about it. Otherwise you are inconsistent.

posted by carmina 27 June | 11:06

You're less of a jerk than I am.
posted by Hugh Janus 27 June | 10:45

You are also the best bob-sledder in Haiwaii.

Do you do anything to actively maintain contact with people? It was kind of a revelation for me a while ago that one can't just say "ok, you're my friend now" and that's it. You have to actually do things to maintain these relationships.

posted by Capn 27 June | 11:10

BTW, I want to say that I am one of the few who believe that people's online and offline personas are not far apart, as a rule --with exceptions of course. In other words if you are like that online I am imagining you act similarly offline.

posted by carmina 27 June | 11:19

I sit at home, and the thought to call a friend or two crosses my mind, but then I realize that I could be reading, and it turns out that I could be reading something like Musashi or Das Boot, and I look up a hundred pages later and realize that I've dropped all my social graces by the wayside, and that I don't have any friends anymore, but I've got Musashi, and he's slicing up angry students of the Yoshioka school, and three women are in love with him but he's blithely devoted to the Art of War, but I know he's eventually going to give up killing, and I wonder if maybe I should give up reading and go see what's going on outside, and I do, reluctantly, only I still sometimes wish I was reading about courtesans wiping blood from his sleeves and comparing it to the fallen petals of a peony until I'm actually in the company of my friends and I realize this is better, much better, than any book (that's not true; some books are better than all life on Earth).

Anyway, I have a long attention span, and I think we both like to go on about ourselves a bit; I really enjoy your company. If there's anything offputting about you, I haven't noticed it.

posted by Hugh Janus 27 June | 11:24

I don't have any answers for dame, but this seems a good place to ask:

What does 0_o mean??

posted by callmejay 27 June | 11:28

It means you're bewildered or befuddled. And you are!

(it also means surprise)

posted by iconomy 27 June | 11:32

Not everyone has to like you, I have discovered at much personal expense and wasted time. Also not everyone has to fear or respect you, which I am still learning slowly.

posted by Divine_Wino 27 June | 11:51

Books are generally better than people BUT books won't pull you out of a burning car or suckerpunch someone who is about to suckerpunch you or buy you a beer and wink at you.

posted by Divine_Wino 27 June | 11:52

Rest easy, wino, I like, fear and respect you.

posted by jonmc 27 June | 11:52

I like, like; and like, fear; and like, respect you, too. Like, totally awesome and tubular, dudes!

posted by Hugh Janus 27 June | 12:01

Hugh Janus as valley girl, everybody! ::golf claps::

posted by ThePinkSuperhero 27 June | 12:01

Thanks to everyone. I guess the question was a two-parter: (a) does this happen to everyone & am I being overly sensitive, and (b) if you actually know me (and I think I am nicer in person than on the Internets, but also think niceness is not the most important virtue), am I doing evil things.

I don't really need everyone to like me and I don't really even need to change the things that are driving people away--I just like to be aware of them. I mean, I'm always gonna be mouthy & judgmental, and I'm okay with some people not liking it. I don't like it when people are overly culturally sensitive mealy-mouthed pleasers, or whatever, you know?

Also, soccer: I apologized once and I will apologize again. That was a particularly bad reaction to people who weren't you. Essentially I am beyond annoyed at many people in real life who act like enjoying sports is a terrible thing who then go all Euro-soccer happy every four years. So you know, I'm sorry.

posted by dame 27 June | 12:06

Essentially I am beyond annoyed at many people in real life who act like enjoying sports is a terrible thing who then go all Euro-soccer happy every four years.

That I agree with. I put that kind of behavior up there with saying 'cheers,' and 'bloody hell' even though you're from New Jersey. Dosen't mean some Americans don't sincerely enjoy soccer. Plus, if you're in a bar full of people watching it, it's hard not to get in the spirit.

posted by jonmc 27 June | 12:10

Plus, if you're in a bar full of people watching it, it's hard not to get in the spirit.

I do not find that true for me. Than again, I love basketball above all sports (for watching) and soccer is pretty much the antithesis of basketball.

posted by dame 27 June | 12:11

Uh, it's okay when people are annoying like that, but also sexy and naked at the same time. Then they can say whatever they want; I'm more likely to be looking than listening.

Both soccer and basketball are improved by attending games, particularly when played at a high level. Hockey, too. Hell, it's probably so with all sports (except I much prefer gridiron football on TV -- there's too much downtime at the stadium; the networks thoughtfully fill that time up with commercials and other snacking or peeing cues).

posted by Hugh Janus 27 June | 12:19

(a) does this happen to everyone & am I being overly sensitive, and (b) if you actually know me (and I think I am nicer in person than on the Internets, but also think niceness is not the most important virtue), am I doing evil things.

A) Yes. B) No.

posted by Divine_Wino 27 June | 12:19

Being annoyed at people who act like enjoying sports is a terrible thing is as old as those people.
Fuck 'em and do yer thing. I'd say you waste too much energy on being annoyed/angry with petty, insignificant things. I do too (this advice is as much for me as for you).

Also, neighbeer soon...?

posted by Hellbient 27 June | 12:42

Soccer and basketball, along with tennis, are the only sports I enjoy. Oh, and rollerderby (in person). I am bored by baseball and dislike American football.

posted by matildaben 27 June | 12:55

The only sport I'll watch on TV and enjoy is American football. Attending any sport in person is fun and I will cheer and yell.

posted by ThePinkSuperhero 27 June | 13:00

It's true. I took pinky to a scrabble tournament and she wouldn't stop doing the wave.

posted by jonmc 27 June | 13:01

W A V E, gooooooooooooooooooooooooo SPELLLERS! WOOO! YEA! YAY!

posted by ThePinkSuperhero 27 June | 13:04

I also am not down with scrabble & scrabble-heads. They don't know or care what the words mean! I like to watch football, but only if they are playing in the snow. Baseball is much much better in person & is the perfect sport for beer-drinking: the pace just fits. Hockey I don't understand, so I can't really have an opinion.

posted by dame 27 June | 13:07

Scrabble-heads leave the door to the jacks open and stink up the whole joint.

posted by Hugh Janus 27 June | 13:12

It doesn't annoy me that they don't know what the words mean, but it turns it from something that I might care about into just another bout of memorizing things, seems like chess in that way.

Live sports are fun, except football. I cannot understand it at all, but I like their names and their endless low-class felonies.

posted by Divine_Wino 27 June | 13:19

I bet you'd like it better if there were more torso murderers playing.

posted by Hugh Janus 27 June | 13:22

Wow, I think what I'm getting from this thread is that we're all different and we all like and dislike different things.

posted by iconomy 27 June | 13:23

I seriously cannot stand the sound of basketball. Squeak, squeak, thump, thump, squeak, TWEEEET, squeak.... *shudder*

posted by jrossi4r 27 June | 13:24

Oh and I'm a scrabble head. And I know what the words mean. Like, for example, ask me what generalization means! I know that one real good.

posted by iconomy 27 June | 13:29

Iconomy left the door to the jacks open, and now the whole place stinks! What'd I tell youse! Sheesh.

posted by Hugh Janus 27 June | 13:34

ico,
I think it might be that we (certainly I) are saying that it is not about the meanings of the words and therefore no fun for us (me). Of course many scrabblers know what words mean, you have to be smart to play scrabble and so on and so fourth forever and ever amen.

I'm glad people like different things. I like torsomurders and spelunking.

posted by Divine_Wino 27 June | 13:35

Really? When you memorize all those two-letter words, you know what each and every one means? Always? Because then you are such an exception that it is amazing. Or are you not memorizing lists? Because then you are not what I would (and did) call a Scrabble-head. Boggle, on the other hand, we play you can't define it, you can't use it.

And jrossi: squeak, thud, sweaty boys, yum . . .

posted by dame 27 June | 13:37

Also, what I got from the bottom of this thread is that it's fun to discuss what we like & don't like. Or at least for me. And hey, as long as *I'm* happy.

posted by dame 27 June | 13:38

Boggle, on the other hand, we play you can't define it, you can't use it.

We call that Attica style, except when we play if you can't define it you got to get the fuckin' grape jelly.

You know what I decided the other day, by the way?

You can't be an adult without being a total hypocrite. You cannot function otherwise. That is what I think and I'm a good Yedo man so I know.

posted by Divine_Wino 27 June | 13:43

Yedo?

posted by dame 27 June | 13:44

My nickname in jr. high was Scrabble Queen.

I must now go murder a torso in a cave to win the love of the Wino...

posted by jrossi4r 27 June | 13:45

You can't be an adult without being a total hypocrite. You cannot function otherwise.

This quote would totally fit in hellbient's thread up the page, about opinions. I'm a hypocrite, I know it, and I love it. Suck on that, haters.

posted by ThePinkSuperhero 27 June | 13:47

Ask Hugh what I meant.

posted by Divine_Wino 27 June | 13:47

Even more important than realizing that people like and dislike different things, is realizing that people don't even share the same thought processes that lead to liking things most of the time; that is to say, very few people agree even on what "liking" or "disliking" is in the first place. To call someone out on their tastes is to presume that they think at all like you, which just isn't true. That's why people get annoyed at others' opinions: it's like you're saying, "Scrabble is for grinds," and they're saying, "Yeah, but it comes in a brown box, don't you see how cool that is?" And you have no idea what the other one is talking about, except neither of you likes being called stupid.

Oi, Kamiyopparai-san, onushi mo waru yo no! Did you read Botchan?

posted by Hugh Janus 27 June | 13:53

I'm not a hypocrite, but I'd certainly function better, especially professionally, if I was.

posted by rainbaby 27 June | 13:55

Hugh, I didn't read it brother. I fucking eye-devoured it. I brain-hoovered it. I hunkered down over it like it was an springbok haunch and I was the illest, hungriest cave man ever. I was reading it standing up on the subway and someone came up to me and asked me a question and I quite calmly said,

"Unless you want to spend the rest of time until the final trump and shout with your torso in a cave and your limbs in a variety of oil drums and car trunks you are going to need to not interrupt me while I am reading this book. Seriously you rude ass old lady, I have a hacksaw and contractors bags and a creepy fucking dark red van with tinted windows, so shove off."

posted by Divine_Wino 27 June | 14:03

Hypocrisy is part of the human condition. Unfortunately, that means denying our own hypocrisy while pointing out the hypocrisy of others is also part of the human condition.

And Divine_Wino, just wait 'til I lone you Warlock. Knife fights and back-shooting! Old West!

posted by Hugh Janus 27 June | 14:06

I guess by your definition I'm not a scrabble-head, dame, because I don't memorize those 2 letter words. I do play scrabble at least once a week, though. Love it. My husband and I play for sexual favors. It's very competitive.

posted by iconomy 27 June | 14:15

"Yeah, but it comes in a brown box, don't you see how cool that is?"

This is hilarious. I cut and pasted it and made a desktop wallpaper with it - huge text.

posted by iconomy 27 June | 14:23

Yeah, see iconomy, that I got no beef with. I just have massive issues with playing a word game so hardcore that you are memorizing totally arcane words, but don't bother to know them. It seems to me to defeat the purpose. But I'm happy you have found a much better use for the game.

posted by dame 27 June | 14:48

I always lose at Scrabble, but then I always lose at most games, because I am simply not competitive and I just play as a social way of interacting with people. I know a lot of words because I read a lot, but I'm not particularly interested in memorizing words just for the sake of memorizing them.

Hey cmonkey, wanna play scrabble online again sometime when your move is done?

posted by matildaben 27 June | 14:53

But I'm happy you have found a much better use for the game.

Brings new meaning to the term scrabble head, doesn't it, dame? At least it does if my husband wins.

posted by iconomy 27 June | 14:55

Yes, I would. I won't have the internet + free time until next week, though.

posted by cmonkey 27 June | 14:59

(a) does this happen to everyone & am I being overly sensitive, and (b) if you actually know me (and I think I am nicer in person than on the Internets, but also think niceness is not the most important virtue), am I doing evil things.

I'm kind of amazed and impressed that this thread has 50+ comments and only a couple attempts to answer the question. (And when you say it's emotionally embarrassing, dame, I say good for you for even posting it. Must have been a bit hard. So, yay.)

I think that yes, friendship attrition happens universally. It's easy to feel guilty about it, but before you do, ask yourself if you think you did anything to make a person drop you. You'll likely come up with a list. (And I don't mean because you're you -- I mean because you're human. We'd all come up with a list of things we maybe think we did wrong.) Examine that list, and ask yourself if any of those things would have made you run away screaming. And if yes, make the first contact and try to repair the friendship, if it seems worth it. (And maybe it's not worth it. That's okay too.)

More likely, you and unspecified friend just got busy with other things and lost contact for a while, and now both you and unspecified friend are wondering why you haven't heard from the other. So neither of you calls out of embarrassment or fear of being accused of being a jerk.

Yeah, it's universal. It's better just to stay in contact and not let it get to this point -- even if it means making the first move. Which is hard -- like someone said up-thread, friendship takes work. And work is hard. So we don't do it.

Don't sweat it. Seek out and maintain the friendships that are important to you. That's the best you can do.

posted by mudpuppie 27 June | 15:01

I'd say this thread has 50+ attempts to answer the question, but then, I choose board games by the color of the box.

posted by Hugh Janus 27 June | 15:13

Essentially I am beyond annoyed at many people in real life who act like enjoying sports is a terrible thing who then go all Euro-soccer happy every four years.

Don't underestimate the pleasure of being able to watch a sport of any sort without a million fucking commercial interruptions. If they'd televise more sports that way, I might actually watch more of them.

As to your question, no one's gonna get everyone to like them, so you have to expect some level of that. You might be better served by maintaining and deepening the friendships you do have than worrying about the ones you don't - my $0.02.

posted by trondant 27 June | 22:49

27 June 2006