MetaChat - I've wasted too much of my life...

shit, and now I have a meeting...

posted by Hellbient 27 June | 13:00

Well, clearly it's because you are mistaken and by explaining that to you, perhaps people can help you see the light and thus live a more fulfilling life. Or because it makes them feel better for other, more atavistic reasons.

Also, I had no idea you were 36!

posted by dame 27 June | 13:02

I hear ya, brother. I can listen to someone else's opinions until I'm blue in the face, but it's the point where it turns to me, where they say, "Why don't YOU x, y and z, because I say so" that really makes me crazy.

posted by ThePinkSuperhero 27 June | 13:03

hey, i was wrong...no meeting!

yeah, 36. old man hellbient.

posted by Hellbient 27 June | 13:04

Old! Shit dog, that's not old!

posted by Specklet 27 June | 13:07

Did you just call hellbient a "shit dog," Specklet? If so, what ever does it mean?

posted by Hugh Janus 27 June | 13:10

sorry guys, i don't know what this thread is supposed to be. I'm just feeling particularly floundery lately. Fuckin' people man...and shitdogs.

posted by Hellbient 27 June | 13:12

A good reason for this, if only for the file name.

posted by tr33hggr 27 June | 13:14

36 is NOT old.

Of that I am certain, cos I, too, am 36, and I don't wanna be old. So fuck that, shit dogs.

posted by richat 27 June | 13:16

Not old at all. Although I take great pleasure in the fact that you're older than I am.

I'm so used to people telling me that the things I like suck that I actually kind of enjoy it. The first time my book club actually liked the book I picked, it made me think the book must be crap. And if my 17yo sister doesn't mock the music I'm listening to, well that's a bad, bad thing.

On preview: Now I'm singing "Shit Dog" in my head to the tune of Social Distortion's "Sick Boy." That band annoys my husband and therefore clearly ROCKS.

posted by jrossi4r 27 June | 13:17

36 is older than me, thus it is old.

posted by jonmc 27 June | 13:18

I've wasted too much of my time on taking people seriously....
When they only want to make a splash.

posted by carmina 27 June | 13:18

This is what I think. This is what I think.

Eh, I don't know. Opinions are like... garlic salt. You gotta make a little go a long way.

However, I stand by Maturin's arguement that question and answer is the lowest form of discourse.

One's internal reserves of patience are best kept topped up in this day and age...

I need a nap.

posted by Divine_Wino 27 June | 13:24

At some point it's good to sit back and wonder if "your" opinions are really your own. It's a bit like changing your mind on a subject -- a sign that if nothing else, you still do have a mind that's amenable to change and reason.

posted by clevershark 27 June | 13:25

≡ Click to see image ≡

posted by Hellbient 27 June | 13:25

Hmm. I wasn't calling hellbient shit dog. I should have typed it:

Old! Shitdog! That's not old!

Hey, how does everybody pronounce "hellbient" in their heads? I say it "hell-bee-ent".

Also, I like hellbient.

posted by Specklet 27 June | 13:27

I think lots of times I don't even really have an opinion, just thoughts and confusion and you know, it is what it is...but I always feel this unspoken thing that you have to have an opinion... whatdoyouthink whatdoyouthink...well, garlic salt.
Garlic Salt.

Also, I like Specklet. shux.
You just go ahead and say my name anyway you say it. Just say mah name.

posted by Hellbient 27 June | 13:34

So it's pronounced 'Ike Turner,' then?

posted by jonmc 27 June | 13:35

I'm always amused by use of the word "inflicting" in this kind of context. It's like people who hate cell phones because-- horrors!-- people might actually call. The solution to both is simple: don't respond unless you want to. I'd rather be flooded with opinions than be ignorant of them.

posted by eamondaly 27 June | 13:36

In my opinion, garlic salt is good on popcorn. But not as good as brewer's yeast.

posted by Specklet 27 June | 13:40

Lawry's Seasoned Salt is good on just about everything.

posted by jonmc 27 June | 13:40

I like eamondaly. Also, I like opinions (shockingly!). Finally, I don't think 36 is old, but it is older than I thought you were. I thought you were my age, which is abput ten years younger than that. Then again, I thought jrossi was older than that (wisdom, child &c.), so I clearly know nothing.

posted by dame 27 June | 13:41

I once snorted Mrs. Dash (salt substitute) it was like someone pounded a roofing nail through my cheek bone and into my sinuses. Never do that, that is what my 30 years on this earth have taught me. DO NOT SNORT MRS. FUCKING CRAZY BITCH TRIED TO KILL ME DASH.

posted by Divine_Wino 27 June | 13:46

"It is what it is" is a great opinion. That's exactly the opinion I have about most things. If I like or dislike something, I just think that this is how it strikes me, and other people are prefectly free to have an opposite response to it. It is what it is.

Maybe (many) people spend a lot of time defending or promoting their personal preferences because they are insecure that someone else who feels differently may consider them "wrong".

posted by taz 27 June | 13:47

Yeah, "inflicting" is a giveaway word there, eamondaly. I do realize it's up to me. I think I'm just having a moment of weakness. I could have let it pass, but I was enjoying ya'lls company today. I've certainly had my share of "fuckems" in my life, but I admit sometimes I let opinionated people get the better of me.

And I don't really have an opinion on opinions. But drinking bongwater will give you a headache.

Randy Gofax.

posted by Hellbient 27 June | 13:48

Except snorting Mrs. Dash. That really is just wrong.

posted by taz 27 June | 13:48

I'm almost that old, dame. 34. And what you have mistaken for wisdom is just straight up know-it-all-ism.

Now lets start a street gang called the Shit Dogs and go rough up Old Lady Dash.

posted by jrossi4r 27 June | 13:49

Yes Taz, that is how I feel as well, but in a secure, autonomous way that I arrived at myself.

posted by Divine_Wino 27 June | 13:49

In my opinion, hellbient is not old. I am also pro-hellbient, which I say "hell-bee-ent."

I was also under the impression that jrossi4r was older, because of the kid and being so wise and all.

I just assume people with kids are older than they are, just as I assume tall people are older and small people are younger.

posted by rainbaby 27 June | 13:50

And stop telling me what to do, D-WINE!

*snorts nearest thing*

posted by Hellbient 27 June | 13:51

and thanks, sometimes others are more pro-hellbient than myself.

posted by Hellbient 27 June | 13:54

You shoulda listened to ole D-Wine, now you gonna have to claw open your face with the back of a hammer. Shit ain't easy.

posted by Divine_Wino 27 June | 13:57

Yo, snorting crushed Advil may give you a nosebleed that lasts for an hour or so. Freebasing it makes you see red for a little bit and then you get diarrhea.

posted by Hugh Janus 27 June | 13:58

Hey! Don't snort me!

-is what I would say if I was near to you.

Where are you, anyway, hellbient?

On preview: Hugh, how do you know this? And does Advil make you high?

posted by Specklet 27 June | 13:59

36?! You young whippersnapper! Get offa my lawn!

I don't mind opinions - you're either an idiot or believe the same things I do. I keed, I keed!

Semi-derail: what was hard for me was being told to live my life the way someone else dictated (hi mum!). I didn't do it, for the most part, but the guilt was difficult to deal with. I was finally able to break free of it and our relationship is so much better for it.

I say it hell-bee-ent, too.

posted by deborah 27 June | 13:59

I couldn't disagree more with "it is what it is". It's important to examine why you like the things you like and why you hate the things you hate: those emotions are excellent touchstones for learning more about yourself as a person and your place in the communities around you. To float through life without ever thinking about such things is a lost opportunity at best and misanthropy at worst.

I spend a lot of time defending and promoting my personal preferences because a) I like widgets and so I like talking about widgets and b) I suspect many of my friends and family might also like widgets, so I enjoy sharing the magic of widgets with them and c) I'm always hoping someone who doesn't like widgets can explain to me what they think is wrong with widgets, thereby giving me an opportunity to reevaluate my love of widgets. That's normal, healthy interaction, and it's how people learn and grow.

Finally, "wrong" is just a temporary state of being. It worries me about as much as, say, rain. Or dropped ice creams. Fix it, endure it, or accept it.

posted by eamondaly 27 June | 14:01

Sometimes you get opinions the hard way. Snorting napkins ain't as bad as it sounds.
As for drugs, I'll stick to snorthing the purple pill. It's like seeing what Prince sees, but only for 10-15 minutes at a time. I just wrote a song called "Hollandaise Seahorse".

posted by Hellbient 27 June | 14:04

Eamondaly, will you marry me?

posted by dame 27 June | 14:07

It's important to examine why you like the things you like and why you hate the things you hate

I disagree. I don't need to spend a lot of time contemplating why I like cold beer, songs with a funky horn section and people who hug me for no good reason. I DO need to spend more time hugging my friends while drinking a lager and listening to Jungle Boogie. It is a wiser use of my time.

posted by jrossi4r 27 June | 14:12

I also agree with that (if that's possible), eamondaly...but sometimes it is what it is. It's why god invented the word "meh".

woah, Dame, marraige is for suckers, ya know!

speckles, I'm at work, emptyin' tha cayache...

posted by Hellbient 27 June | 14:13

widgets suck!

posted by mullacc 27 June | 14:16

Lester Bangs said, "Never be ashamed to admit what you like."

I thought that was good advice.

To me, life is about what is possible. Each of us is a unique invidual, our perception of the world and each other is different. And it's beautiful that way.

Although I don't know you personally...what I have seen of your writings here shows that you have a pretty open mind and a curiousity about things. What else d'ya need really?

Open up the freak flag and let it fly, brah!

posted by black8 27 June | 14:17

I'm older than any of you whippersnappers... and hey, get that whip away from me, you prevert... and I've learned a few things:

Opinions are like noses, everybody's got one, and you don't want to come near somebody when theirs is running.

It no longer matters if Lynyrd Skynyrd sucks or not, nobody wants to hear "Sweet Home Alabama" on the KFC commercials.

Nobody seriously considers snorting Mrs. Dash until somebody has declared how gawdawful it is.

Lawry's Seasoned Salt is NOT good on pudding.
≡ Click to see image ≡

Hellbient's last name is NOT Forleather.

Everybody has at least one deeply and devoutly held opinion on something that, if expressed, will result in shunning and possibly arrest.

Anybody who claims to have all the answers has most of the wrong answers.

Widgets suck. But only if you use them correctly.

Any medication taken nasally will do one of two things: empty the snot from your sinuses or empty the cash from your assets.

I could go on like this for hours. Stop me.

posted by wendell 27 June | 14:21

wow, uh, is it possible to agree with everything?

My freak flag will fly soon, and ya'll 'll be the sorrier for it...Gotta get it up the damn pole first! I spend more time making the flag than letting it fly! sup black8!

also, i feel much better now. this shit works. huh. thanks again.

posted by Hellbient 27 June | 14:22

jrossi: well, do you like beer because it's tasty, or because it's accessible, or because it gets you drunk, or because it's the only way you can get through the day? The answer to that is clearly quite important to your liver and your ability to spend tomorrow hugging and boogie-ing.

I'm not suggesting people throw on a hairshirt every time they eat a candy bar, but it's important to ask these questions of yourself every once in a while.

posted by eamondaly 27 June | 14:24

Nobody seriously considers snorting Mrs. Dash until somebody has declared how gawdawful it is.

I am the revolutionary vanguard of doing stupid shit. I lead from the front.

posted by Divine_Wino 27 June | 14:25

I know, hellbient. *That's* how much I liked what eamondaly said. It totally messed with my reall reasoned and totally correct abhorrence of marriage.

posted by dame 27 June | 14:27

I love what jrossi just said. But then again, I started reading this half an hour ago, so she might have said something else since then. You'll just have to wonder what I mean.

posted by mudpuppie 27 June | 14:32

Oh, also: thanks, dame!

posted by eamondaly 27 June | 14:34

sup hellbient! I'm playing Sammy Hagar's "3 Lock Box" in your honor right now!

posted by black8 27 June | 14:43

Hobo lady: Can any of y'all help me? I need some food!
Rider lady: Would you like this?
Hobo lady: What the hell is that?
Rider lady: It's a kiwi.
Hobo lady: Bitch! I said I need some food!

--1 train

posted by Divine_Wino 27 June | 14:43

Ha ha ha ha ha.

posted by dame 27 June | 14:46

haha, DW. that's hilarious.

B8, I'll start now by saying I used to be quite the fan of The Red Rocker. How did you know?

posted by Hellbient 27 June | 14:48

Also, eamon, you're welcome. But I looked at your profile & I'm not really into meat or your missus. So we'll just have to be keyboard lovers instead.

posted by dame 27 June | 14:49

I'd have to say that's the craziest train line - the red. I don't get to ride it much anymore.

posted by Hellbient 27 June | 14:50

The first time I saw a kiwi I was sure that it had fallen off an elephant, sure of it.

posted by Divine_Wino 27 June | 14:51

*I just wrote a song called "Hollandaise Seahorse".*

"Hollandaise Seahorse"... that sounds like something one reads about on urbandictionary.com.

posted by clevershark 27 June | 14:53

I don't mind people's opinions—or their telling me about them—at all. I do mind hearing an excess of their contempt, though. ("Excess" being more than a very small amount.) Almost nothing anyone says to me feels like an "infliction"...but contempt does. And it's interesting how contempt is the difference between healthy dislike and the narcissistic attack on other people that characterizes this sort of opinion. It's also a sort of whining.

posted by kmellis 27 June | 15:00

that's what I thought when I first heard of a Kentucky Hot Brown, too, clevershark.

posted by Hellbient 27 June | 15:00

i think you nailed it for me, kmellis. Yes. Contempt. That's exactly what I meant in my original statement. Perfect. Thank you. Thank you.
How are you, if I may ask?

posted by Hellbient 27 June | 15:06

And it's interesting how contempt is the difference between healthy dislike and the narcissistic attack on other people that characterizes this sort of opinion.

For you. For me it's just a sign someone really cares.

posted by dame 27 June | 15:10

speckles, I'm at work, emptyin' tha cayache...

No, no, I meant more like where you are geographically. So, you know, I could stalk you. Or possibly date you.

posted by Specklet 27 June | 15:27

I'm 36 too! Reprazent.

Here's how I look at it. There are tastes, and there are opinions.

Anyone beyond the age of, oh, 20, who has the nerve to tell you that your tastes suck is profoundly immature. Tastes vary. "There's no accounting for taste" is one of my favorites sayings. What moves a person about a band, song, movie, author, destination, magazine, clothing style is as idiosyncratic as a fingerprint (or should be, if people are thinking at all independently). The assertion that somehow, my taste might be empirically better than yours is not supportable. There are some widely shared tastes, and some obscure tastes.

There are some artistic criteria that can be developed within groups, and applied thoughtfully, to create a hierarchy of achievement (e.g, Shakespeare was a better playwright than Neil Simon because he met a given set of critera better), but that is not the same thing as taste. One can recognize some validity in that statement, and still prefer to see a Neil Simon play on Friday night.

I'm glad to have reached the stage in life where people recognize that it's silly to demean someone else's tastes -- especially when the someone else has earnestly cultivated their own taste, often against cultural pressure. How often have I maligned someone's favorite band, only to have them explain their sincere reasons for liking whatever band and bring my point of view around? That has caused me to accept others' tastes with a much more open mind. I've learned to say "I don't care for action movies," or "That band has never interested me very much," rather than "That movie sucks," or "Only posers like that band."

Opinions, on the other hand, I think of as different from tastes. I think of opinions being important where matters of politics and policy are concerned. In my view, there is so much at stake when talking about our governance, social justice, and civil society that I do argue vehemently for my point of view in those arenas. I consider them less a matter of taste, since policy decisions affect everyone, not just the people who prefer them.

posted by Miko 27 June | 15:52

Part the first: I thought hellbient was about *my* age. (which is in between hellbient's real age and how old dame thought he was).

Part the second: another thing that is not good for snorting is gin.

Part the third: I ride the red line 2 or 3 days a week though. Oh yeah.

posted by gaspode 27 June | 16:04

tha 3 to tha 6! Thanks for your thoughts, Meex.
This thread made my day. And during it came the good news from my doctor that the mass I had removed last week from my right nut (who knew there was a religious ceremony going on in there) is benign. B-9! B-9! Bingo!

And wooo! *bites fist* thanks Speck, I'm totally flattered, and way spoken for. I'm in NY.

posted by Hellbient 27 June | 16:19

Congratulations on having a healthy package!

Ach, it's probably just as well you're all taken n'stuff; it would be hellish to fall for you and have you be 3000 miles away.

Sigh.

posted by Specklet 27 June | 16:33

Hellbient! You funny, lovely man... would more photos of jon's ass cheer you up? Anything for you, my friend...

posted by Pips 27 June | 17:05

I still think there's a difference between tastes that are cultivated and tastes that appear to represent a complete lack of taste. I'm specifically referring to mass culture items that people consume not because they have a particular desire for them but because they're there. If someone expresses a taste preference for the films of Takashi Miike, I can understand that they have their reasons and that I do not share them, and I can still respect that person even while I am saying "That's not to my taste." On the other hand, if they like The Garfield Movie or other items of that ilk, it does cross my mind to wonder what on earth human motivation could spur them to like that kind of thing. But then, I know I'm an elitist intellectual snob.

posted by matildaben 27 June | 17:09

would more photos of jon's ass cheer you up?
ooo, that Mcdonkadonk!

posted by Hellbient 27 June | 17:31

Don't playa hate, my brother. Some of us gots junk in the trunk, and some don't.

posted by jonmc 27 June | 17:35

Mechonkachonk.

posted by Specklet 27 June | 17:54

haha!

If this thread gets any sweeter, I'm going to off myself with a chocolate revolver. It won't even be messy - my blood has already turned into rich chocolate syrup - just send in the dogs.
Oh wait, that would kill the dogs then, huh?

posted by Hellbient 27 June | 18:00

Mechonkachonk. That's fun to say, and write.

posted by Hellbient 27 June | 18:01

Must a been a great party. There's all this colorful shit on the floor, the cd player is skipping thru a 30 second break of "I got you Babe", what appears to be gobs of chocolate buttercream on the kitchen wall, a red sneaker with a half bottle of rolling rock set in it, it's snowed popcorn and these lines of orange powder next to a cut off straw....

posted by pointilist 28 June | 00:11

"Thank you.
How are you, if I may ask?"

Not any better. I'll probably see a doctor tomorrow or Friday. Thanks for asking.

Contrary to Miko, I do think some people have better taste than others. I also think that it can be learned, but also native. And I do think that in all things, including art, by some definition things are better and worse than other things.

Even so, I don't take other people's bad taste or bad opinions as a personal affront. There's something insidiously insecure about that—the only reason to be so personally insulted that other people don't agree with you is that you have a childish need for other people to agree with you.

Furthermore, there is something very shallow about investing so much in so little. The implication is that people with bad taste or bad opinions are somehow less worthy as people. But the variety of human experience and the complexity of human character is so vast that it seems absurd to me to qualify someone's entire character on the basis of their favorite band, film, or even their politics.

I raise an eyebrow at the equation of caring and contempt.

posted by kmellis 28 June | 09:06

in all things, including art, by some definition things are better and worse than other things.

Only if a set of mutually accepted criteria is taken as the starting point, which is exactly what I was saying (your 'by some definition'). Otherwise there's no basis for making an argument that something is better than something else; the only other resort is to rely on taste. And simple taste is completely idiosyncratic and is built by biographical and personality factors that have nothing to do with the inherent qualities of the thing itself ("I love the Garfield movie because my grandfather and I used to read Garfield over the kitchen table when I stayed at their house as a kid...").

This is why I love the Kingston Trio even though I can make and agree with a strong argument that they're absolutely terrible corny colonialist hacks who made a complete joke of traditional music and did more harm to the public impression of folk culture than perhaps anyone. But my Dad was into them and we made a project of collecting their entire discography, and we still sing their songs, and so I actually enjoy them. I agree with kmellis that judging on taste is really shallow.

But I stand by my guns where politics is concerned. There is little or no moral dimension to taste in arts, food, or entertainment. But there is a moral dimension to political views and actions, and because we are all governed by the outcomes of political decisions, opinions in this area have much greater power to impact the lives of others than opinions about the best type of sushi.

posted by Miko 28 June | 09:29

Well, I think there's a moral dimension to most everthing, particularly art. But certainly I will agree that this is most true in the case of politics.

Even so, what it means to be a good person or a bad person is something so expansive (or, contrarily, easily something so specific) that generalizations on the basis of political beliefs is unfair and simplistic.

posted by kmellis 28 June | 21:19

27 June 2006