MetaChat - This thread makes me sad.

I can swim. Not competitively. I learned at the Y when I was a kid. I like swimming, but I haven't done it in years, mainly since I used to be embarassed about going bare chested cause of my skinniness.

But as a swimmer you should know that the water (ocean water especially) can be dangerous, especially if you don't know what you're doing, so maybe fear isn't that ridiculous.

posted by jonmc 23 June | 08:26

I nearly drowned twice as a child. The first time I was around four and tripped over a lawn chair by the pool. When I fell into the pool, the chair fell on top of me. Didn't know how to swim at the time.

The second time I was taking swimming lessons at the YMCA and tried to get across the pool in only five strokes. I had misinterpreted something the instructor said. Anyway, they had to fish me out with that loopy thing on a pole they have at pools.

I love the water, even after that.

posted by Captaintripps 23 June | 08:32

I learned to swim at school. I don't know if it applies now, but when I was a kid, we were taken swimming once a week, and earned various achievement certificates.

I enjoy pool swimming, but not so much open water swimming, unless the water is very clear. I only have to have a bit of seaweed touch my leg and I think it's a giant octopus about to drag me under.

yes I know I am suggestible

I began scuba diving lessons a couple of years ago but had to stop because I needed some major abdominal surgery. I keep meaning to take it up again (in England it's mostly pool training with a few icy cold open water places, old reservoirs, etc.), maybe on a dive holiday to the Med.

I love being in the water, but am self-conscious at the pool because of my low body confidence.

posted by essexjan 23 June | 08:33

I had trust issues with the water at an early age, which I attribute to the fact that my mom sent me to take swimming lessons from a person that was a stranger to me [although not my mom]. I was supposed to trust this stranger to not let me drown. I went through the swimming lessons and all that, but my lack of trust ensured I didn't hold on to the knowledge. Then, when I was seven or so and could actually touch bottom in the shallow end, I was able to get comfortable swimming and now I love it. I think you just have to be introduced to it in the right way at your own pace.

posted by sciurus 23 June | 08:38

I like swimming and it's my main form of exercise - I try to do 1km most days at the local pool. I'm very short-sighted so I can't see the other swimmers very well. I can see well enough to tell there's someone there and get out of the way, but not well enough to distinguish characteristics such as fat/thin, male/female (I must have been rude to friends who saw me in there, but I wouldn't know) and now that I know the pool and the route to/from the changing rooms I like being blind because I'm not comparing my body to anyone else's.

I'm not a good swimmer though - I can do 1km with not too much trouble, but I'm sure I could be far more efficient about it. I am not good about doing the whole timed breathing thing so I tend to keep my head out of the water. My mum was a competition swimmer in the 60s and says that that was normal then (for breast-stroke at least), which makes me feel a bit better...

posted by altolinguistic 23 June | 08:41

Also, my Uncle Mike was a competitive swimmer, but he drowned in a lake when I was 3, but he had been drinking, so he might have cramped up or something.

posted by jonmc 23 June | 08:42

But as a swimmer you should know that the water (ocean water especially) can be dangerous, especially if you don't know what you're doing, so maybe fear isn't that ridiculous.

Well, yes and no. I took from that thread that part of the reason people can't swim is because they are so very freaked out by water that they almost refuse to learn or are incapable of learning what to do. That the freaked-out-ed-ness comes first. Like the idea that water is scary because "it isn't solid." It is solid, just in a different way. Or the "I can't see" comments. Even good swimmers can't see well without goggles. Yet it never really seemed to matter.

But yeah, basically I'd never seen such an outpouring if deiscomfort about water. And I wanted to talk about it because it makes me sad.

Also, a pointer for all the water-up-the-nose people: blow out.

posted by dame 23 June | 08:43

My father was thrown into the Mediterranean Sea from a 40 foot high cliff when he was 4, by some moronic uncle who knew he didn't know how to swim, but thought it would be funny. To this day my father is still afraid of any water.

My 16 year old son just got hired to teach kids how to swim at the local school pool, so hopefully in a few weeks there will be a few more swimmers out there.

posted by iconomy 23 June | 08:48

So many people are scared of water, which I have to admit I don't really get.

fear of drowning is a classic, uncontrollable fear. you can't breath, you can't see, you're cold. it's almost like being dead. as a competetive swimmer, you just cannot understand. me, I'm kinda scared -- creeped out is more precise -- by guns. why? because I can't shoot them, and I'm afraid they'll just go off or explode or something. experienced shooters are not afraid of guns, just like experienced swimmers are not afraid of water. having said that, every once in a while an experienced shooter dies in a gun accident, and an experienced swimmer drowns. but the rule still makes sense -- you fear what you cannot control.

also, I blame Steven Spielberg

posted by matteo 23 June | 08:50

I loved swimming, but I have become very uncomfortable with people seeing my body, so I haven't in, wow, over a decade now.

posted by PinkStainlessTail 23 June | 08:51

What's so unfortunate about fear of water is that by indulging it, people actually make themselves much less safe around water, and much more likely to get into trouble.

I grew up in the water. My earliest memories are about the beach and swimming. My mom taught me to freestyle and backstroke at a very young age.

But I still didn't know how to 'swim', that is, stroke mechanics and stuff. That, I learned at summer camp. Eventually I taught Red Cross swimming at camp, and though my own strokes weren't that great, I got much better at swimming by teaching.

When I started doing triathlon I had to increase my endurance a great deal -- a few sporadic pool lengths don't cut it as tri training. So for the last couple years it's been crawl up the pool, crawl down the pool for an hour or so.

In recent years I have learned the basic mechanics of the butterfly stroke. It's incredibly fun to do, though I probably look like a flailing hooked tarpon or something. I'm not saying I'm good at it.It's a lot easier in salt water than fresh.

But anyway; I think it's just irresponsible not to learn how to swim or at least tread water and get some basic water safety going on. If you don't, it's so likely that you'll be drowning one day and end up taking someone else with you because they have to go in and try to get you. Also, what if someone else is drowning and you're the only one around? Going in after them is always a very very last resort anyway, but shouldn't you know how to do it?

posted by Miko 23 June | 08:52

ALSO. Then there's fluid physics. Not only do people know how to swim, they need to know how to swim at an angle get out of fast currents in rivers, how to float feet first if they go get swept in, etc. They need to know the steps you go through when you see someone get into trouble in the water.

In the ocean, there's a lot to know about wave action, longshore current, and rip currents. A few years ago I was at the beach with a bunch of friends who've spent a lot of collective time at the shore. Two of them got caught in a rip current, and though they too had taught swimming and knew what to do intellectually, they didn't realize what was happening to them, got into a panic reaction, and fought the current for far too long, almost to the point of exhaustion, before extricating themselves. It scared them both pretty well. Seems like every summer, someone on the Jersey shore dies in a rip current. There's no need. It's something you can learn how to handle.

posted by Miko 23 June | 08:57

In recent years I have learned the basic mechanics of the butterfly stroke. . . . It's a lot easier in salt water than fresh.

That's because it's easier to keep your hips up in saltwater.

just like experienced swimmers are not afraid of water.

But it seems like the fear came first. So is it just that people who aren't afraid learned before they knew enough to be scared?

And I sort of understand the panic, I guess; I've definitely gotten a big wave of water right in the face when racing and you choke on it and whatnot. I suppose it's less scary though because I am pretty certain that I could just stop and float forever (unless the water temp took me out).

posted by dame 23 June | 09:04

I'm not sure it's an age thing neccesarily, but it does seem the be a class thing in the US. This was quite surprising to me because in Holland you can't even get through primary school without mandatory swimming instruction. Including how to swim out of currents and how to swim wearing winter clothes and boots.
I guess we all kind of take our own experiences to be universal. For example, until a few years ago I had just sort of assumed that every adult knew how to ride a bike.

posted by atrazine 23 June | 09:06

until a few years ago I had just sort of assumed that every adult knew how to ride a bike.

I can't ride a bike. I tried to learn recently, but was too scared of hurting myself.

*makes chicken noise*

posted by essexjan 23 June | 09:11

I'v been swimming since I can remember. I remember taking swim lessons at our city pool when I was about 6, but I'm pretty sure my parents had taught me to dog paddle even before that.

I never managed to learn much "technique," so I don't look good doing it, but I do love to swim.

posted by BoringPostcards 23 June | 09:18

Atrazine, it's even more a race thing than a class thing. My mom's family was working class/lower-middle-ish, but they were all beach rats. And some very wealthy blacks can't swim. Actually, there is are housing projects in New York right on the beach, which so many people would think is great, except for the race thing means most of the people in the projects don't. So sad: when I was little & we were poor, the beach was one of the cheapest things to do.

Also, I hereby offer any MeChazens who come to New York technique tips on demand. And I won't laugh at your body. (Look how silly even competitive swimmers look.)

posted by dame 23 June | 09:27

I think I learned to swim around the same time I learned to walk. Being in the water feels natural to me whether it's a pool, an ocean, a river, etc. But I realize I don't know exactly what to do in any of the situations Miko mentions, but I've experienced all of them and never had any trouble--I guess it's just a confidence thing.

posted by mullacc 23 June | 09:27

My father once turned down a lucrative job offer because he didn't want to be landlocked. We are a seafaring people. I love the water. But just like BP, I have NO technique. I look incompetent (especially since my father, husband and sisters swam competitively), but am actually a very strong swimmer. And I can float like a motherfucker. Seriously. You can't sink me.

Like the person who posted that question, I really don't understand not knowing how to swim. I don't remember being taught. It's just something you do...like walking.

posted by jrossi4r 23 June | 09:35

I'm not sure it's an age thing neccesarily, but it does seem the be a class thing in the US.

That's so true. A lot of the kids we taught to swim at camp just had no real access to water in their lives. for economic reasons, and hence no opportunity to learn.

The race thing intrigues me, dame. Because I'm aware of a number of seaside resorts that, since the 1800s, have had a notable black beachgoing culture. I always thought it was the same thing as white beachgoing culture -- some people grow up with it and it's part of their experience, and some don't and so they're far less comfortable with the beach. But I'm interested to hear more observations on the topic.

posted by Miko 23 June | 09:35

I am far from a good swimmer but I can at least do a few basic strokes, tread water, float indefinitely, open my eyes underwater, and so on. These I learned as a kid at the Y.

But I can definitely relate to the fear. A lot of people just haven't spent any time in the water, and it's something that is strange and different to them. It's one thing if you grew up going to the pool in the summers but it's another thing if the closest you've ever gotten is the shower and you've never been in the ocean. So, while I find it strange to be afraid of the water I can definitely understand being in that state.

posted by Rhomboid 23 June | 09:37

Miko, the article linked by atrazine covers more of the race thing.

posted by dame 23 June | 09:39

I don't remember exactly when I learned to swim. I remember playing in water at early ages. My parents signed me up for swim lessons, which didn't go over well. I was afraid of the deep end and the instructor refused to acknowledge my fear. When we moved to southern Ontario our new house had a pool so that's where most of my swimming "lessons" took place. I used to pretend I was a dolphin. Last summer I got my Open Water Diver cert.

I love the water.

posted by LunaticFringe 23 June | 10:02

I've always loved swimming. I don't know that I'm a good swimmer in terms of technique, but I love being in the water. I was deathly afraid of the diving board when I was younger, but eventually got over that. I don't remember a time when I ever had any fear of the water itself (though that, of course, doesn't discount there being one.)

I did apparently almost get washed out into the Atlantic Ocean when I was seven or eight, and from that point on I was forbidden to float around on those snow tube things (I think that's what it was) for a looooong time. I wonder if I'd be afraid of water if I actually remembered this experience. Plenty of people have told me about it but I don't remember it at all.

posted by Kosh 23 June | 10:11

I've been swimming since I was an infant. At least. I have no fear of water. I love to swim. Why I don't have a "swimmer's build" is just God playing one of her little jokes again.

posted by WolfDaddy 23 June | 10:20

My parents had the foresight (and the resources, though that didn't last too long) to get me swim lessons with a very hot lifeguard when I was four. I grew up in the midwest, too, but they were both from NY/NJ, so it may have been higher on their list of priorities.

My mother's cousin had a pool when I was a teenager, and I had to, at different times, rescue both her son's girlfriend (20s) and my little cousin (4-5). I taught the little cousin to swim and she loved me forever (I'm not really close with any of my family, so it's rare for me to be someone's favorite).

Give the gift of swimming!

On the other hand, I'm with EJ in that I really don't like open water. I don't like sand, and I don't like fish poop. I also don't like not being able to touch bottom (even after my swim lessons, I refused to go in the deep end of the pool unless my parents were there) if there are no walls. I forced myself to go snorkeling in Aruba and I was determined to enjoy it, but just couldn't (and I'm usually pretty good at that). Even when I let go of being creeped out by the fish (no, nothing is going to eat you), I still wasn't having too much fun. Part of that may have been the equipment; I don't like flippers, and the snorkel kept getting water in it, no matter how careful I was. At least the mask didn't leak. I didn't really have a problem with being in the ocean when we were windsurfing, despite the fact that I was very bad at it and kept falling in.

"I had a dream of the open water
I was swimming away out to sea
So deep I could never touch bottom
What a fool I used to be"

As for freshwater, the only time I've needed stitches (other than dental surgery) is from cutting my foot open on a sharp rock in the Hudson. I still swim in freshwater, but I don't quite enjoy it as much as I used to. But pools? Pools rock. Oddly enough, I don't have much problem jumping off falls or bridges anymore, so long as I'm sure I can get clear, despite all the warnings about sharp rocks underneath.

Hey, at least they finally gave us a GTA character who can swim.

Oh, and I have neutral buoyancy! I can control my depth by how much air is in my lungs.

posted by Eideteker 23 June | 10:27

It doesn't make me sad at all. My sons don't ride bicycles- neither one of them. Are they missing out? Yes. Do they care? No. No big deal.

posted by Doohickie 23 June | 10:29

Learned to swim at age 5 at summer camp, with the whole "make ice cream scoops with your hands" and "blow bubbles" technique. Joined the synchronized swimming team for 5 summers, and learned all the acrobatics underwater.

...Spent every summer (age 2-13) in Maine in a house right on the beach, and also many spring breaks visiting grandparents living on an island off the west side of florida.

...Sailed my first sunfish completely solo at age 12, swam around Eagle Island, Maine also at age 12 (swimming through constant gardens of freshwater seaweed was pretty gross, and that's the only part i really remember!)

...Trained and yearly passed my ARC CPR, first aid, and basic lifesaving from age 14-17, and then worked each summer either lifeguarding at a pool or lake...(try dragging-up from the bottom of an olympic-sized pool a deckchair weighted-down with bricks if you are scared of water!)

the water for me is more comfortable than air. but i never swam competitively like you, dame.

the most enjoyment for me is natural swimming, and in a lake even better than the ocean. you pass those constant pockets of cool water, and then warm water, and wonder about the currents and the sun, and the creatures below.

dame, i'm totally with you. the day i look at a pool of water (whether it be a chlorine pool, muddy lake, or salty ocean) and feel fear, it will be a sad day.

posted by scala di seta 23 June | 10:30

Phobias aren't all that accessible verbally. They live at a deeper level. And they can be overcome, but it is hard work and painful (like most change experiences and most learning.)

That said, I've been a swimmer since age 6. Morning swim lessons in freezing cold in a not-very-heated outdoor pool for a couple of years.

Don't swim much now because of a neck injury that hurts when I hyperextend my left arm. If it wasn't for that I'd be splishing and splashing a lot.

Question: does the fear of drowning apply to hot tubs? I like hot tubs, mineral springs, hot springs, etc.

Puget Sound mechas, we should discuss a Doe Bay meetup.

posted by warbaby 23 June | 10:31

That was a good article. To round out the picture and add in the stuff I was talking about, here's a NYT piece on the history of the black community at Oak Bluffs, Mass, and a PBS link on the same place (which happens to be one of my favorite beach towns in this world). Some other mentions of historically black beaches from a travel site. It occurs to me this might make an interesting FPP. The topic of who uses and doesn't use the beach has always interested me, since I am a beach rat myself. There's a great book on coastal cultures, and how coastal peoples differ from inland peoples, called Alongshore.

posted by Miko 23 June | 10:31

and this.

Cute, or what?

posted by warbaby 23 June | 10:39

Miko, you are so fantastically awesome.

And Doohickie, I can't believe you let you children grow up not knowing how to ride a bike! I guess, yeah, I'm just sad that people are missing out on something totally awesome. Besides, in this case, it can kill you & other people too. This was linked in that other thread. (Also, I think it's disturbing they didn't pull the nanny out too.)

posted by dame 23 June | 10:52

I am not a fish!

posted by weretable and the undead chairs 23 June | 10:53

Wait, Miko, have you read Alongshore? Because I want to know why local women wear bikinis.

posted by dame 23 June | 10:58

Yeah, I've read it, but I don't have it at hand. I'll have to follow up at home. There is a lot of stuff on swimwear in it. Turns out that until the 'seaside resort' phenomenon of the 1880s or so, pretty much everybody just swam naked, or the women in just their chemise (long cotton undershirt).

The bikini seems to be wayyy more common than ever, now, doesn't it? I mean, it's always been around, but now it's like mandatory.

posted by Miko 23 June | 11:05

Yeah. I thought that was one of the best parts about losing weight: I know look not-terrible in a bikini. I think it's because it's cooler & easier to manipulate. Hence the evolution of the tankini (brilliant, I think): the ease & coolness, plus coverage. But then there's the whole phenomenon of bikinis that just look nice but are unswimmable. Those drive me nuts.

posted by dame 23 June | 11:34

I don't naturally float, so staying above the water is a chore and it tires me out really fast. If i do it for too long i start to panic and take in water.

posted by joelf 23 June | 11:50

I will also point out that i will happily dive off a 40 foot cliff though. as long as getting back to shore isn't a big deal. I just won't swim to an island in the middle of the lake.

posted by joelf 23 June | 11:53

The oldest known picture of a woman's swimsuit is a Roman bikini. True fact.

What goes around comes around.

I like tank suits if they have a little decolletage.

And I'm part of the negative buoyancy crowd. I can sit on the bottom of the pool with full lungs.

posted by warbaby 23 June | 12:19

I was 7 or 8 when Bro#3 pushed me into the deep end of a friend's pool. I couldnt' swim and an older kid rescued me. It was one of the few times his abuse was witnessed and punished.

I wouldn't say I'm afraid of water but I have a healthy respect for the possible dangers of swimming. That said, I love to swim. I'm not a strong swimmer but I can do a basic stroke, dog paddle and float (hey, body fat is useful for something!).

posted by deborah 23 June | 12:56

There are techniques you can learn to improve bouyancy. They have to do with body positioning. There are no humans who can't float; most people, when motionless in the water, will float vertically at about eye level.

posted by Miko 23 June | 13:08

There are no humans who can't float

As with all absolute statements, that's probably wrong. There are probably people missing combinations of limbs or something that can't float.

posted by Miko 23 June | 13:09

I can swim pretty decently. I currently do about 5k-6k meters per week, though I still can't swim butterfly with anything resembling grace.

I think I learned when I was about 2. I was on competitive swim teams for pretty much the whole of my pre-college life.

posted by I Love Tacos 23 June | 13:16

Eat enough gravel and you'll sink; I guarantee it.

posted by Hugh Janus 23 June | 13:22

Ha ha, Miko. I typed something similar & then just decided to drop it, but I'm glad you didn't. Between all the people claiming they can't float and agregoli in the original thread claiming water goes up her nose even when she blows out (which is, you know, impossible), I swear I think part of the reason people can't swim is because they don't want to.

posted by dame 23 June | 13:26

I love swimming and I'm very happy in the water. I don't remember "learning to swim" per se; I've been able to get around, more or less, for as long as I can remember. I've taken a few Red Cross and similar classes over the years and know my basic stroke mechanics, but I'm not really an elegant or efficient swimmer. I do get much better when I swim regularly, but haven't done as much of that lately as I'd like.

My dad's pretty serious and still trains regularly with a Masters club, but I've never been the least interested in swimming competitively.

posted by tangerine 23 June | 13:30

I don't swim. I can swim but I hate it. I learned at an early age, 4 or 5. Contributing to my skewed appreciation of swimming is the fact that for most of my life I have been very skinny, so skinny, in fact that I would sink to the bottom of a pool in fresh water. Sort of unlearned that first lesson they teach in swimming class.

posted by pointilist 23 June | 14:03

I used to go to Rockaway Beach on the weekends with my best friend and her family, and there was a girl we hung out with who lived there year round, a block from the ocean, and couldn't swim. That always blew my mind.

I learned to swim at summer camp when I was about 3 or 4, and my mom reinforced what I was learning in our neighborhood pool on the weekends. I had a wonderful swim instructor at camp who would float on her back and let me ride on her like a raft (she was a pretty big woman) while I got accustomed to being in the water.

I never mastered the whole "turn your head and breathe" thing, though.

BTW, I come from a seafaring people, as well. Here's my great-grandmother Anna at (I think) the Jersey Shore in the early 1900s (that's a "bathing suit" she's wearing).

posted by amro 23 June | 14:05

(Oh, and I know the background's fake in the photo, but I think it was taken at a photographer's studio at the shore.)

posted by amro 23 June | 14:07

Oh amro, she's beautiful!

I wish I could go swimming right now.

posted by rainbaby 23 June | 14:09

Great photo, amro.

posted by dame 23 June | 14:22

I used to swim quite a bit (2 km 2X per week) but then my swimming buddy up and moved to CA and I haven't swum laps since. I like being in the water though.

Swimming for me was very odd. I couldn't swim up until I was about 10. I sucked at it. Nobody could tell me I wouldn't sink. And then one day I just "got it". I went from being a non-swimmer to being able to swim lengths in a couple of weeks. Crazy.

I've always always loved the ocean though.

posted by gaspode 23 June | 14:36

hrmm. 2km 3X per week, actually. Just, you know, for accuracy.

posted by gaspode 23 June | 14:44

Awesome, amro! I love that backdrop. The light looks like it could be a representation of Barnegat Light or maybe Cape May light. Of course it could also be an 'artist's conception'.

posted by Miko 23 June | 15:47

amro, your great grandmother is beautiful! And can you imagine swimming in that suit? I heard they were made of wool-itchy! Being on the lower income side growing up, the beach was near (by bus) and free. I learned in a bay area of a river in New Jersey. I love the water. You can't get me out of pools once I'm in. As I've gotten older and had kids, I've become more wary of the ocean. I prefer taking my kids to a lake. I was not able to get them swim lessons, but they're doing pretty good anyway. And only one knows how to ride a bike. Where we were living it was just too unsafe for the little one to learn. We did start this past week on teaching him. My mom never learned how to ride a bike, but she was able to teach me.

posted by redvixen 23 June | 18:25

23 June 2006