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Books Other Writers And Critics Liked.

I suppose I agree with the winner, though I haven't read any of the other stuff, save Confederacy of Dunces. Dunno, most of the shit I read is 19th century English.

I haven't read Beloved yet. Mebbe I should. Toni Morrison sure does have better hair than any of those other, mouldering constituents of the American Writing canon.

Okay, I lie. Don Delillo has great hair.

I'd choose Underworld over any of them other mooks.

What's wrong with DeLillo (White Noise and Underworld anyway--not Libra) and Roth? And Morrison, though it seems odd that people seem to consider Beloved to the exclusion of her other books?

Then again, Winter's Tale and Housekeeping are good, but not that good. And Updike was always one of those people I figured I'd appreciate when I was older. I'm almost thirty, though, and it hasn't happened yet.

And why no James Ellroy? Well, for the same reason that genre writers in general are mostly excluded from these kinds of things, I suppose.

And Confederacy of Dunces? Way overrated, in my view, and I can't help but wonder how much of an editorial hand Walker Percy had.

I really liked Beloved. But of the books listed, I've only read that, Confederacy of Dunces and the Plot against America. So I can't really judge there.

Housekeeping by Marilynne Robinson is my favorite of all the ones up there. Winter's Tale, I remember being good, but haven't read it in 20 years. I could do without Updike and Roth, for sure. McCarthy is nice but overrated.

I'm really reading mostly nonfiction these days. Maybe my tastes are changing as I'm getting older, or maybe it's just that the kind of fiction being written isn't the kind that knocks my socks off anymore. I'd really have to rack my brain to remember the last time I read a novel-length work of fiction that made me want to drop everything and run out and tell everyone how great it was. There must have been something that made me feel that way since Jeannette Winterson's The Passion (1987; I read it in 1991-ish) and Mary Gaitskill's Two Girls, Fat and Thin (again, around 1991), but nothing's springing to mind now. Well, there's Murakami, now that I think of it. I do still read a lot of short stories.

of the last 25 years?

all very subjective, but:

Infinite Jest - David Foster Wallace
The Wishbones - Tom Perrotta
Samaritan - Richard Price
Barney's Version - Mordecai Richler (Canadian, but what the fuck)
An Underacheiver's Diary - Benjamin Anastas
American Tabloid - James Ellroy

I liked Roth's American Pastoral and Delillo's Underworld as well. Haven't read the others.

My favorite of those is White Noise.

And I, too, mostly read nonfiction these days. Well, and comic-y stuff. Then again, lots of nonfiction is kind of post-New-Journalism these days, y'know?

Man, I've hardly read anything on this list. Confederacy is the only one. I did read Morrison's Song of Solomon in high school, but the only thing I remeber is that I hated it.

I did read American Tabloid and I thought that was great.

I'd like to see Richard Russo on there. I'm right there with box, I like DeLillo, never saw anything great in Confederacy.

jonmc, I just finished Samaritan, good, but so far I actually liked Blood Brothers better, Wanderers best. Also, I couldn't stop seeing S. Epatha Merkerson as Nerese in my mind's eye..too much Law and Order I guess. BTW, the people I stayed with in NY are friends with Richard Price, they even got to be extras in the film of Freedomland.

Where's Middlesex? That book built a little birdhouse in my soul.

I lovelovelove White Noise. I haven't read much else on that list though.

I haven't read Beloved. Read all the Roth, though, and The Dying Animal is my fave book of his but no where near as ... important, I guess, as American Pastoral and some of his other better known work.

I couldn't stand Dunces. Never been able to get through it.

I also hated a few on jonmc's list (Samaritan gets worse the more I think about it and I didn't bother finishing the Anastas--love American Tabloid, though).

I'm on the fence about the Angrstom books. I like the topic/characters/themes, but his writing rarely moves me.

Never finished any Denis Johnson either (tried Jesus' Son and ... shit, I forget the title.... Already Dead or something like that).

I'm also surprised Middlesex isn't on the list, jrossl4r. Surprised there's no Styron on the list, either.

Interesting list of judges.

so far I actually liked Blood Brothers better, Wanderers best

Oh, I agree, testuo that those two books are much better than Samaritan, but they're both over 25 years old as well, so I had to exclude them.

I couldn't stop seeing S. Epatha Merkerson as Nerese in my mind's eye..too much Law and Order I guess. BTW, the people I stayed with in NY are friends with Richard Price, they even got to be extras in the film of Freedomland.

I always pictured Nerese as my friend Annie, who looks similar to the way she's described. And you didn't use your friends connections to get me an autograph?? For shame, sir...;>

Samaritan gets worse the more I think about it

Not picking a fight, just curious, what turned you off about it?

The Times sure has a problem with math.

but they're both over 25 years old as well, so I had to exclude them

Sorry, went a little off topic there. I'll work on getting a signed Ladies' Man for you.

Samaritan was filled with genrestock characters and this reader ended up a few steps ahead of the plot.

I've said before, I thought Ladies Man was freaking brilliant and thank you for the suggestion.

Infinite Jest is awesome and I love it to death, but also quite exasperating in any number of ways (but hey, if DFW weren't exasperating, that would lose one of the main things to love about him).

My most read books of the last 25 years are probably Stephen Dixon's I., Roth's DA, Scott Spencer's Endless Love, David Gilmour's Sparrow Nights, and Ellroy's Cold Six Thousand.

Lately, Nicole Krauss' two books have been making me very happy.

On preview: jonmc, I just didn't find it engaging. I felt like I was watching Law and Order or The Wire (both of which I hate). The premise is certainly interesting but I had to force myself to finish it. I kept thinking, "It's Price, he'll pay it off..." but he never did. I honestly found nothing about the book itself (outside of the premise) interesting: the main and minor characters, what he did with the setup, the writing itself. That said, I always find I'm more disappointed by things I don't like that are done by people I usually admire. Anyone else had written the book and had I managed to finish it, I would probably just have forgotten about it. But, because it was Price, it just made me angry; when one considers how rarely he publishes a book (on the whole), I'm disappointed that that's what he came up with and that now I have to wait again for his next one.

Parts of it reminded me of Richard Bausch's Violence, which was a far better read--though really I guess they're not super similar. Dunno why Samaritan kept making me wanted to pick up Violence again.

Yes, Ladies Man is terrific.

Hmm. I agree it's not his best (but like I said, his best are older than 25 years), but I thought the scenes in the projects were fairly well written, and I think there were some insights about people doing good things for less than noble reasons and I liked the charachter White Tom Potenza, but YMMV.

Sadly, it's been awhile since a contemporary novel on a shelf jumped out at me and said "You must read me."

I forgot to mention Jim Dodge's Not Fade Away, a delightfully funny and poignant rock and roll fable written in the mid 80's. Also, even though it's nonfiction, Stanley Booth's story of the Rolling Stones 1969 tour is so novelistically written (and incredible) that I'm tempted to include it. Easily the best rock related book ever in my opinion.

Also, even though it's nonfiction, Stanley Booth's story of the Rolling Stones 1969 tour is so novelistically written

I think the whole fiction/non-fiction distinction is pretty meaningless. Narrative/non-narrative makes a hell of a lot more sense to me.

Which is why I'd nominate "A heartbreaking work of staggering genius" by Dave Eggers as the best narrative book of the last 25 years, even if it technically goes in the "memoir" section.

And Jon, rock book-wise, have you ever read this?

No, good?

I have read Dave Marsh's Before I Get Old which was a very good rock bio, but the Booth book is in a whole other ballpark.

the fact that infinite jest isn't even a runner up here means this list is probably not very important, from the pov of a young person who writes. seriously, is there anything else that's had quite as much impact in the last ten years or so?

Gravity's Rainbow

Oops, over 25. Damn, you just can't trust anybody under 25 these days.

And Tom Robbins, where is he?

Sheesh. The NYT list is some sort of in-group mutual admiration society. Goddamn easterners.

* grumble, grumble *

Where's Middlesex? That book built a little birdhouse in my soul. jrossi4r

Best Book Review Ever.

The NYTimes list is very New York Eastern Establishment Literary Darlings. They put a black woman at the top, but it's mostly the WhiteBoyZone(Edward Jones is black, Marilyn Ronbinson is female). Interesting group, great writers, but drawn from a narrow pool.

Matildaben. . .is the movie of Housekeeping anything like the book?

I hated the movie. . .

Never judge a book by its movie adaptation.

--the sign in my local bookseller's window

We're talking about Richard Price, and nobody has mentioned Clockers?

Danf - It's been about 15 years since I saw the movie, but I remember it as being more a Bill Forsyth movie than a movie of a Marilynne Robinson book. Now, I love Bill Forsyth movies. So I may or may not understand what you hated about it. And I can't say if it is like or unlike the book in the elements that matter to you, because I don't know what elements matter to you. Read the first 10 pages of the book and see if you like the tone and the atmosphere, which as I recall are pretty consistent throughout the book.