http://s53.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0KEFMGJQOBDHY07V64O2BMS2EL

*whuffles Eid vociferously*

Thank you, baby.

I'm going to pretend that, by "you", you mean me. That will make me happy.

I YSI'd this a while back too :)

Do I get whuffles?

can anybody YSI me some Insane Clown Posse? Preferably "Dead Bodies," or "Halls Of Illusions?"

I'm serious.

No.

I'm arguing about them at MeFi, and it's making me want to hear them.

Jon, those are the guys who sing the song where the crabs sing a chorus about biting his nuts?

yeah. they're enjoyably stoopid.

I enjoyed Carnival of Carnage, and can take them in limited doses. Some of that shit's so stupid it's brilliant: "Bitch you's a hoe, and hoe, you's a bitch" and "Bitch you so ugly/that's ok/I'm gonna hit it anyway"

Jon, you're derailing a perfectly nice thread. Please don't do that.

Is there really such a thing as a derail on metachat? I thought it was chat.

mats, mission accomplished on comment #1 - what's to derail?

I just think it's kind of incongruous when a thread about a cute, sweet love song turns into a thread about ugly, vicious, stupid misogynistic music, or when a thread about some discussion topic turns into a thread about when and where two or three people are going to meet at a bar. How difficult can it be to start a new thread for your own topics, instead of piggybacking on a completely unrelated thread? It just seems like common sense to me.

after defending the icp, jon can never again make snide comments about other people's musical tastes. or about anything else they like. ever. if he does, we have the right to shoot him. and i have nine guns.

what weretable said

Conversation and its discontents.

Another perfectly reasonable way of looking at this thread would be that it's a YSI request thread, and jonmc's YSI request is not a derail at all.

I think it would be nice if more YSI threads piggybacked this way. But it's no skin off my back, really.

Hugh is correct

(although the "shoot him" part is obviously a joke, i feel the need to point out that i never actually shoot said guns, they are basically inherited, although i have nothing against hunting in general. just not that interested in guns, do not wish to get email from the nra or whatever)

I just think it's kind of incongruous when a thread about a cute, sweet love song turns into a thread about ugly, vicious, stupid misogynistic music,

I thought we were all about the inconguity and drift. Let's not get like the Mothership here. As for the music, taste is a matter of taste.

about when and where two or three people are going to meet at a bar.

Hugh dosen't have access to email at work. If he did I'd be happy to use it, but I take advantage of the site for that. I try to keep it to a minimmum. And yeah the only reason I asked about ICP was because people were requesting YSI's.

Since we're already good 'n derailed here, I'll chime in to agree with matildaben. Yes, there is such a thing as a derail here. If I posted in every thread about the latest video game I was playing, complete with screenshots and descriptions of the tough level I just beat, people would get a little irritated. Someone might even speak up.

And yes, it is rude to start a discussion of where you're going to meet two friends in the middle of a thread about, say, your favorite romantic gestures.

One might say that Magnetic Fields and their music is pretentious, arrogant, effette, and elitist, but that would be a matter of opinion and taste, wouldn't it?

And, hi Specklet! Thanks for the song!

I had never heard the Magnetic Fields before matildaben shared this song, and I rather like it. Could someone YSI a few more songs by them?

Also, I agree with matildaben and agropyron.

People were requesting YSI's, that's the only reason I asked. Sorry.

(and I've posted about far more offensive stuff than ICP before, so I didn't think people would get all exercised over it. and fwiw, I like the Magnetic Fields, too. Time and place for everything and all that)

If I posted in every thread about the latest video game I was playing, complete with screenshots and descriptions of the tough level I just beat, people would get a little irritated. Someone might even speak up.

Which is why you don't, and why that's not the best example in this case, particularly as jonmc admitted to piggybacking a YSI request on a thread with a YSI request.

I find the invites helpful, and since the NYC Metachat community has a lot of impromptu meetups, we tend to mention these things when we have one another's attention. Though it'd be no sweat to try posting these things to the front page (they are meetups, to which anyone is invited, after all). But "rude?" That's a strong accusation to level at someone who probably never thought twice about it. "Rude" is a little heavy-handed.

I'd be surprised if these so-called "derails" of really in-depth and interesting threads are more than just blips; most of the time, a mini-conversation is had (as happens when folks chat) and then the thread is picked up when the next poster answers the FPP or another poster. Nothing to get into a dudgeon about.

But asking someone to YSI a song on a thread asking someone to YSI another song? That's no leap at all. Not nearly as much of a derail as accusing someone else of a derail in an attempt to censure his taste.

I don't really care, just want things to be fair, and I'll watch out for my own derailing tendencies on the future, because it seems to hurt feelings. I just hope my contributions don't fall off as I worry about what other people would have me say, and when.

(also, someone sent me the ICP. thanx. I'm still working on that broadway musical box set. The ICp can be kind of refreshing in the midst of that)

jon wasn't exactly out of line here. It's not like we were discussing the song or anything. It was requested, and recieved, and if jon hadn't added an additional request, the thread probably would have stopped there. It had certainly reached it's intended lifespan, so wherever it went from there was nobody's busines but its own. (Shit, I hope I'm not encouraging more of the "this thread" meme...)

Oh, I don't care about the YSI piggyback requests. I just wanted to define that yes, there are such things as derails, and yes, they do happen here. My example wasn't that far removed from reality.

Ok, now I'm adding "bitched about derails" to my list of regrets. Happy? :)

can I just say that MeFi thread is hilarious when it gets the point of them blaming jonmc for commenting too much?

that's like ten guys jumping one in an alley, then when the one pretty much kicks the ten's asses, they yell at him for throwing too many punches.

ok, hugs?

As usual, my strident defenses are too strident by a yard. Of course I don't mean to put anyone down. Just trying to do my part for life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Maybe someone could YSI Dave Mason's "We Just Disagree?"

;)

that's like ten guys jumping one in an alley, then when the one pretty much kicks the ten's asses, they yell at him for throwing too many punches.

exactly. they start a thread for the express purpose of dumping on a group and it's fans, and when I pipe up (alone) and say 'it's not that bad,' I'm some kind of bullying troublemaker. That makes loads of sense.

*fumes*

If ten guys jumped jonmc in an alley, there'd be at least two guys fighting back. Brother!

I didn't mean to censure (or censor) anyone's taste. I was merely pointing out that the styles of music were pretty diametrically different from one another. The derails that really tick me off are the ones that happen in the middle of more substantial/meaningful threads and have absolutely no connection to that thread. This one just happened to hit when I was in enough of a mood to complain about it instead of just shutting up like I usually do.

*sneaks into thread, whuffles everyone surreptitiously, sneaks out*

*beats everyone with whuffle bats*

I think we need another pointless rage thread.

on a happy musical note, I would highly recommend everyone go to www.indie1031.fm and listen to "Jonesy's Jukebox" (sex pistol steve jones' show) between 12-2pm PST.

its on now and he plays the best stuff- he just dug out some reggae version of "here comes the sun" b/c its raining here in LA today.

I'm not saying this to bicker with you, matildaben -- I see your point (and the "censure his taste" line was why I apologized for my usual over-stridency) but:

I guess we all have different ideas of chat. Things tend to flow pretty freely here, and I've noticed conversations within threads changing pretty drastically, as have we all. I consider these to be natural changes in the chat that's going on, and harmless. Others consider them derails, and somehow dangerous.

If I post something, and a few people get into it, and then one person says something tangential or even perpendicular to my post, well, more power to her. It keeps things interesting and lively. If I was talking to friends in a bar, and the conversation turned that way, I'd love it. Not all topics deserve their own little place in the sun, and the flow of conversation sometimes demands digression or even distraction. The conversation itself rules the roost.

If the topic is given primacy, then I think conversation often suffers: it becomes more of a question, answer, same question, different answer, all the way down. That's fine, and sometimes fun; but it's not chat, really, to my mind.

I don't think anyone "owns" threads. Folks just come up with ideas and put them out there, and if it's interestiong to enough people, and interesting conversation can ensue. Telling someone to take their disruptions elsewhere is tantamount to claiming ownership of a thread, assuming a mantle of authority that isn't deserved, and trapping oneself in the conundrum that is born every time we tell someone else they've been rude: it's ruder and more disruptive to publicly accuse someone of rudeness than it is to be rude in the first place.

I'm a big offender when it comes to derails, partly because I tend to browse the recent comments page and drop into threads to respond to whatever's newest and strikes my fancy, and partly because I'm crazier than a shithouse rat. Sometimes this means I don't know what the initial topic was. I never thought this mattered, because I took the word "chat" to heart.

I'm seriously not criticising you for anything. I'm just trying to get at the kernel here, why there seems to be more of a disconnect than a disagreement here, because I think we lack common ground (which is okay). And it's not that I require clarification from above on exactly what constitutes chat, and what a derail is; I think we all just have different approaches. Some of those differences in approach are greater than others, but none are insurmountable and nobody is wrong.

And matildaben, I don't think you should shut up for anyone else's sake. Please say what's on your mind when you think it's appropriate. I think that's what this site's for.

Really, really big hugs, because I mean it, even though I'm strangely argumentative. I think that's what this site's for, too.

Flagged. (this isn't what metachat is for)

Yeah, see, I'm going to pretend that the song was dedicated to me, because I'm leaving Portland today. ["If you knew how I long/For you now that you're gone," etc.] See? That's logical, isn't it? Okay thanks.

Have a safe trip home pup. It was great hanging out with you!

Have a safe trip, mudpuppie. It was great to see you again. Can't wait to see your photos.

hee hee!