MetaChat - What is the proper response

Well, the real question is, do you want to marry him or not?

If so then apologize and tell him you'll behave until he proposes.

If not then maybe its time to pack up and move on.

posted by fenriq 17 April | 11:37

Jesus. The proper response to that kind of passive-agressiveness is "fuck you!".

posted by interrobang 17 April | 11:38

I can think of lots of possibilities.

"I'd never marry you anyway, jerkface!"
"Oh yeah? Well I was gonna propose to you six times, and you messed those up!"
"Ha ha, you can't even propose right!"
"Yes, I will marry you!"

posted by agropyron 17 April | 11:39

I say tell him the same thing, only say that HE ruined YOUR proposal to HIM 10 times!

Seriously, it's all "game". Ask him to be specific...VERY specific. If he refuses, then he's just gettin' himself out of trouble with YOU.

Trust me.

posted by Joe Famous 17 April | 11:40

How did you allegedly "ruin it?"

posted by grouse 17 April | 11:40

Seriously, it does sound like kind of a messed up situation. Do you fight a lot, normally?

posted by agropyron 17 April | 11:40

Yea, what does "ruin it" mean? Sounds ultra controlling- "If you're good, I'll propose to you- but you're never good!"

posted by ThePinkSuperhero 17 April | 11:42

I'd ask, "If we got married, would you continue to shift the blame for your own nerves onto me?"

But I don't mean this as advice. I don't know/love/whatever the dude, so I don't have his feelings in mind.

posted by Hugh Janus 17 April | 11:42

That just sounds not right somehow.

Unless you two really want to get married and he's all neurotic about asking you and also seriously wants to ask you in some perfect, romantic way and he said it in a totally kidding but maybe slightly exasperated tone of voice.

posted by shane 17 April | 11:44

What shane said.

posted by occhiblu 17 April | 11:47

You either propose to someone or you don't, you don't tell someone you are going to propose to them. It's one of those things.

But maybe he's just having an incredibly off month. Using my own propensity to be a fuckup as a guide, this is possible. So if he is just like me cut him a break, otherwise kick him in the nuts, if he gets up and proposes anyway, marry him.

Also listen to Joe Famous. Joe Famous needs an advice column, Ask Joe Famous!

posted by Divine_Wino 17 April | 11:49

Only if I get to co-write the column with Divine Wino!

Word up!

posted by Joe Famous 17 April | 11:54

Thank for the responses, everyone. I have a lot more thinking to do.

We don't fight often, but we do fight intensely. I'm at work feeling sick to my stomach over this. Where can this possibly go? How could I say yes to a (future) proposal that I only know I'm getting because I "earned" it with "good behavior"? I feel like I'm getting hosed over after two years of giving everything to him.

posted by ArsncHeart 17 April | 11:56

Oooo, honey ::hugs:: I'm so sorry. That totally sucks, I had hoped I was completely on the wrong track.

posted by ThePinkSuperhero 17 April | 11:58

I'd take a break if I were you. You need to discern if that was simply a momentary lapse of stupiditude or if that indicates something more sinister.

A proposal is not something that should be "earned." He either loves you or he doesn't. As a matter of fact, I think he needs to earn the right from YOU to have a "yes" if and when he ever does propose.

Whatever you do, don't beg or act needy. HE needs to make this right, not you.

posted by bunnyfire 17 April | 12:01

ArsncHeart, that sound sound awful. I'm sorry to hear it. It sounds like a long, deep "status of our relationship" talk is in order. One of the items on the agenda should be letting him know that such manipulative comments are immature and inappropriate. Hopefully Wino is right and he's just having a really bad month.

posted by agropyron 17 April | 12:03

And what bunnyfire said.

posted by agropyron 17 April | 12:04

Before I was proposed to, I could feel it coming, so we were both totally stressed and acted in some pretty freaky ways.

So if he is a perfectionist and trying to make it extra special, that kind of thing. . .like if you cancelled a scheduled small airplane ride on him at the last minute or something, that could be it, but. . .

without context it sure sounds weird.

posted by rainbaby 17 April | 12:05

...I'm getting because I "earned" it with "good behavior"?

If you seriously think he's making you earn positive reinforcement by the behavior he wants from you, avoid him like the goddammed plague. There are entire websites about "how to get girls" that ALL stress ONLY giving out positive reinforcement for desired behaviors (somewhat like clicker-training a dog or a horse, only they don't give negative reinforcement and manipulative schmuck guys do.)

I'm NOT saying this guy is definitely like that, but then again you let the "earned" it with "good behavior" thing slip out...

It sounds like your gut is warning you.

posted by shane 17 April | 12:11

There is no proper response to something said "in a fit of anger" other than "I think we are both a little worked up right now. I know I've said things I don't really mean, and I expect you have too. Let's talk about this some more when we've calmed down OK?"

That said, do not let "two years of giving everything to him" influence your decision whether to spend your life with him or not. The time you've invested in the relationship has no bearing whatsoever on your readiness to take a vow.

posted by danostuporstar 17 April | 12:15

Don't ask advice from a bunch of people on the internet. We don't have the full story. Go to couple counseling or something.

posted by matildaben 17 April | 12:26

One day, after we'd been dating about a year and a half, my then-boyfriend got a bug up his butt that we needed to watch the sunset. I was exceedingly grumpy and just wanted to go home. But noooooo we had to hike all the way to the top of some stupid hill overlooking the water to watch the stupid sun go down. I complained the whole time. When we got to the top, he started yammering about something, but I was so annoyed I wasn't listening. Then I looked over and saw that he was holding out a ring. I asked him to repeat himself. He said, "Oh good...it didn't come out the way I practiced. Let me try again." Then he said lots of nice things about me and asked me to marry him. I said yes. We've been married almost 10 years now.

My point is this...he could have given up and said I ruined the moment, but he didn't. He loved me and wanted us to share our life together, even the moments when I'm cranky. Nothing was predicated on me living up to some standard for behavior he had established in his mind. I get the sense that your boyfriend doesn't really understand what marriage means.

posted by jrossi4r 17 April | 12:38

Ahh. The stress that is proposing.
I wouldn't read too much into it personally. He's probably wound up about it because he cares that its perfect and you're an easy target to vent his frustrations on because you're his girl.

If he wants to propose, then he'll propose.
If you don't want to marry him, then say no.
Everything up to that point is supposition.

Although, when you said he'd said you'd ruined it, I automatically switched into "light romantic comedy" mode. Being unable to propose is standard hollywood fodder.

At the ball game:
You: "God - look at that. I think it's stupid when people propose using the big screen".
Him: "Ermm. I think I need to go and get some ermm, hotdogs. Be, yes, be right back"

At the restaurant:
Him: "Darling, would you like to cut this 'special' cake."
You. "Naah. I'm not hungry any more. Lets just leave it and go."

At the park:
You: "Arghhhh Horses. I'm allergic to horses - take me to casualty immediately."

posted by seanyboy 17 April | 12:49

What jrossi said. A proposal isn't like a dog treat that you get for rolling over correctly. It's a serious action, presumably considered because you both want to spend the rest of your lives with each other, good and bad.

That said, also what matildaben said. We don't know the whole story.

posted by gaspode 17 April | 12:50

Well, while you should take our *advice* with a grain of salt, I think it's often pretty helpful to vent/hypothesize/organize one's thoughts with people online, so of course feel free to continue to do so if it's helping.

And in any event, hugs. Sorry to hear things are so confusing.

posted by occhiblu 17 April | 12:55

that fucking limey seanyboy just snagged all the good material i had lined up. thanks, chap. that's twice this month you've ruined my gags! twice!!

posted by Wedge 17 April | 13:03

I ruin everything!
sorry wedge.

posted by seanyboy 17 April | 13:04

Don't tell me, you drank the champagne without seeing the ring. I can't blame him. Rings, champagne, and clichéd/contrived marriage proposals are expensive. Knowing what you're potentially marrying into? Priceless.

Was it a fit of anger, or a fit of frustration? I can understand frustration if he put a lot of effort into it, but not anger. One indicates an inability to improvise and roll with changes, the other indicates a problem temper. Not everyone is great at thinking on their feet, and one shouldn't be penalized for being awkwardly thoughtful.

posted by Eideteker 17 April | 13:06

The disappointing thing is that this didn't come up directly after a "ruination". It came up this morning, after I found him sitting on the edge of the bed with his head in his hands.

We are going through some rough times - I'm going to graduate my Master's soon, and we're thinking of relocating, which is stressful...etc.etc.

But it just seemed like he threw it in for good measure...and I'm not sure that he sees there's anything wrong with that.

posted by ArsncHeart 17 April | 13:12

Wedge, thanks for the smile. :)

(PS: I know I have to figure this out myself, rather than rely on the strangers of the Internet. But you guys are rational beings, for the most part, and funny, so it helps to bounce things around a bit.)

posted by ArsncHeart 17 April | 13:15

I didn't propose to Mrs Geezer*. In fact I have no recollection of the time when we agreed we were getting married. I guess the situation just kind of evolved and there was never any question it wouldn't happen.

* well, when we got the engagement ring from the jewellers I jokingly asked her and she said no. humpf.

posted by dodgygeezer 17 April | 13:30

That's what my grandparents said happened with them, dodgygeezer.

posted by ThePinkSuperhero 17 April | 13:30

Now I want to hear proposal stories. Starting new thread!

posted by ThePinkSuperhero 17 April | 13:34

you know, I know people who proposed to their fiance (and successfully made it all the way through to getting married, and are still together) after being yelled at for having missed the perfect opportunity to propose. As in, they were on a romantic vacation, and the proposee kept saying "this would have been the perfect time to propose. I can't believe you, you never get anything right," etc... because she didn't know the proposer had an even better spot in mind.

the fact that he still proposed at all blew me away at the time. I think it is entirely possible for a proposee to ruin a proposal in advance, but that if that's the case, it's probably time to call it quits.

posted by shmegegge 17 April | 13:37

I think if it were me, given how much other stressors seem to be happening in your life right now, I might just say that discussion of the marriage thing is off-limits for X number of months. Given what he's said, and what you've said here, it seems like a proposal any time soon would just be overly weird, and it might be good to take that off the table entirely while you both sort through the rest of it.

On the other hand, I've never been married, so maybe getting *that* sorted through first would help the rest fall into place...

posted by occhiblu 17 April | 13:40

ArsncHeart, after the little vignette you gave us in your last comment - the head in the hands, the stress, the graduation and relocation -- I'm going to agree with matildaben and also occhiblu. You guys are dealing with a lot right now, and it's probably pretty confusing. A few sessions with a couples counselor would be an excellent idea; a heartfelt "I love you, but let's table the proposal idea for now" conversation would also be an excellent idea.

Take a deep breath. You don't have to decide anything right this moment. One thing at a time. Get a clear-headed third party to help you work things out, if you like. You guys can handle this one.

I found your honest description of this moment touching; I bet you're both overwhelmed with life choices that seem impossibly big, and a near future with unknowns in it. That's a stressful time. Concentrate on the good feelings you can find for each other, and see if taking the pressure off yourselves a bit doesn't help.

posted by Miko 17 April | 14:20

You'll have a great story to tell your grandkids.

posted by AlexReynolds 17 April | 16:27

In my experience, ~~women~~ people often attach too much importance and permanence to things said in anger. The guy is probably kicking himself that he screwed up not one, but two planned prososals he had set up and took this out on you as a subconsious way of saying "I am trying so fucking hard to create this perfect moment for your to remember for the rest of your life and post on the internet to your friends with the weird names and it keeps fucking up".

Give him a break and, if he asks you to come and look at the sunset, for fuck's sake say yes.

posted by dg 17 April | 20:05

Where can I mark Miko down as my muse?

posted by deborah 18 April | 15:17

17 April 2006