rotting fruit.

Some articles about this asshole.

Never wrestle in the mud with a pig. You only get dirty and the pig enjoys it.

And as long as there are rocks, people like this will crawl out from under them. But in general, the tide is turning in favor of the gayfolk. Let the fart in the wind dissipate.

you can go and help block them if you want.

and it could be worse--it could be Phelps or Nazis or the KKK.

and BP, here's a great 70's rock song that applies very well to fuckheads like this:

Jethro Tull - Hymn 43

I know you're right, jon, but man, having them show up in your backyard is alarming. This particular fart has been around for at least 15 years now, and has trained his daughter to carry on the hate... but they've NEVER been here in my little neck of the woods. I know my home state is homophobic (they were willing to amend us out of the state constitution after all) but Sheldon is a star in the anti-gay world.

When I pulled up in front of this sign and took this picture, there was a small crowd of church types gathered around one of the cars in the parking lot. One of them must have spotted me because they all started giving me a huge "welcoming" wave... "Hi, neighbor!" It seemed a little sarcastic to me, but maybe my outlook was tainted by the fact that I know they'd like me to disappear.

and it could be worse--it could be Phelps or Nazis or the KKK.
posted by amberglow 19 March | 21:00

I'm not sure that would be worse... everybody knows Phelps is a nut, but Sheldon started trying to pass laws to hurt gay people over ten years ago- Oregon was one of the first states to try to pass an anti-gay statute.

That wasn't a good link... Oregon tried to pass an anti-gay amendment (that Lou Sheldon crafted) before Colorado's Amendment 2, which failed before the Supreme Court, finally.

I know straight people must get tired of reading about this crap, but we are being attacked EVERY SINGLE DAY. And since we will never be a majority, we have to hope that there will be enough straight people who don't just "not hate" gay people, but will actually go out on a limb and support us.

I'd put little rainbow flags and pink triangles on that sign, but that's just me.

Actually, I might get some of my own letters and spell out "WE LOVE GAYS" or "WE'RE QUEER FOR [whatsisname]".

God is love; for your fellow man or otherwise.

"WE'RE QUEER FOR [whatsisname]".

beer? Richard Gere? Holly Near? William Shakespeare?

I know straight people must get tired of reading about this crap, but we are being attacked EVERY SINGLE DAY.

I'm not tired of hearing about it, and I sympathize, but as a straight person I get to hear things a gay person dosen't and it makes me think about strategies to gain acceptance for gayfolk in a different way. Not better neccessarily, just different. And I know that often times, letting fundy fuckheads rile you up only gives them ammunition. If they're ignored they don't have 'rabid queers trying to usurp our values' to point at, and y'all look sensible by comparison. Just a thought.

Telling someone to be "sensible" and not get "riled up" is kind of asshole-ish. If they're ignored, they assume they have consent from the silent majority.

Expressing distaste/disgust is not the same as "wrestling" with them. Opposition does not have to be "rabid" but simply visible.

Perhaps getting people to post signs which said "Hate is un-Christian" or whatever would be more effective than a shouting match, but there are many ways to let someone know that their hate is not welcome without shouting.

I have been surprised by how many people are willing to display a sign like I mentioned when they don't feel they have to face people down. And once they start appearing, generally more and more people become comfortable putting one up, too.

Some people prefer indirect confrontation.

(I'd go with "Hate is Un-American" myself, even if it really is American as apple pie. Sometimes you gotta go with what you'd like a place to be so the possibility can be realized.)

I respectfully disagree, jon. I think a protest is spot-on. IMO, a protest isn't about changing the bigots' minds -- the vast majority of them aren't going to have their minds changed in any way, least of all by a demo. It's about being a visible presence in the community -- for example, showing middle-of-the-road straight folks who might otherwise be intimidated that it's okay to openly support gay rights. And of course, being a presence for gays and lesbians -- especially teens, or anyone who feels they can't come out -- to see that others, gay and straight, will unite publicly in their defense.

Silence is all too often taken as apathy or compliance; it generates confidence in those who would oppress, and apathy/fear in those who would be oppressed. So when it comes to this sort of shit, I would argue that open dissent is both morally and socially necessary. This stuff can open the door to the Klan, Phelps, etc. -- so slam that door shut! (Hell, a big enough protest may even cause the bigots to think twice about coming back. That's a tactic I often saw work in the '90s in the midwest organizing anti-KKK rallies: thousands of us vs. a few dozen of them resulted, in more than one town, in the Klan not coming back the following year for their public rally/recruitment drives.)

At the end of the day, the bigots will likely stay bigots. But for others in the community, it can have a powerful and positive effect -- make it clear that Doraville/Norcross will not be a safe haven for gay bashers. [/straight veteran of countless gay rights protests/demos]

Telling someone to be "sensible" and not get "riled up" is kind of asshole-ish. If they're ignored, they assume they have consent from the silent majority.

I have to say that this is an incorrect assumption. If someone is generally ignored, it means that they're not taken seriously. A preaxcher without a congregation is merely a crackpot.

Expressing distaste/disgust is not the same as "wrestling" with them. Opposition does not have to be "rabid" but simply visible.

Agreed. I'm just saying that maybe a simple dimissive 'This guy is an idiot and dosen't represent the people of this area,' is more effective than anything else because one, it marginalizes the bigot and two, it appeals to people's better natures, since most people don't like being associated with crackpots.

Sorry if I was unclear.

Maybe I could've condensed my response to 'Consider The Source.' Most mainstream straight people don't much like religious fanatics and would like to distance themselves from them, and that's a fact that the pro-gay movement can capitalize on.

A few weeks ago, we got a call from a friend of ours. He had a new job selling financial services. Could he try out his pitch on us? He'd have to bring his boss along. We declined. But a few of our friends, trying to be supportive, agreed.

Cynic that I am, I did some research. Found out his new boss was this guy. I spread the word and everyone cancelled. I feel bad for my friend, but not nearly as good as I feel about depriving that asshole of some $$.

what scody and BP said---and we need that visible support now more than ever.

If they're ignored they don't have 'rabid queers trying to usurp our values' to point at, and y'all look sensible by comparison. Just a thought.
posted by jonmc 19 March | 21:50

The fact that he is being invited diagonally across the United States to speak to a church tells me he isn't being "ignored." Quite the opposite.. I feel like I should register my opposition to this asshole poisoning my community, but how?

When y'all see my atheist ass being hauled off next weekend with a "GOD IS LOVE" sign, or some such, you'll know I snapped. I am not kidding here- I feel like I have to do something.

I'm not disagreeing, BP. Just...considering. I don't like seeing my country balkanized, and that's what those fundy assholes want, and I try to avoid rising to their bait, since at the end of the day, they are still a loud but distinct minority.

(and you know you have my support, man)

These things are always a case of the silent majority being ignored in favour of the loud minority (aka "the squeaky wheel"). In the absence of any other visible opinions, the opinions that are most often in the news will appear to those in power as the "voice of the people". Unfortunately, crackpots and others with complimentary quantities of free time and lack of intelligence are starting to rule the world, while the rest of us are busy earning an honest living.

... most people don't like being associated with crackpots.
Except that we have reached that critical mass point of population where every theory, no matter how bizarre or wrong, can attract sufficient support to allow it to flourish. The only solution is for an equal or greater number of people to publicly refute this idiot. Unfortunately, we have also reached the point where our apathy is now equal to or greater than our care for our fellow humans.

"First they came for the gays and I did nothing ..."

and for what it's worth, I break the balls of passively pro-gay straight friends to stand up and be counted, too. I'm just doing my part, albiet in a very different way from a lot of people.

and the media gives all the insane haters all the airtime they want--always.

I don't like see our country balkanized either, jon, but other elements in our midst LOVE it.

I'm sick of seeing these assholes run around and pretend that they're the majority. Sheldon is coming into my neighborhod, and he can't even get into a real church- it's a congregation that meets in a freakin' office park. I want to make sure he knows even THAT is not acceptable in my neighborhood... my neighbors don't think I need to be exorcised, and I'd like to keep it that way.

because they make good copy by riling up people. you want to combat them? don't make them satan, amke them bozo the clown, they're already halfway there. We're fast closing in on a time where gay-bashing preachers are going to seem like 'the end is nigh' types wandering the street, mark my words.

(not that I'm saying that anyone should quit combating them since that's the reason they are becoming laughable. I'm merely pointing something out)

Boring, i think you need to get local bloggers involved--put out a call to action at Kos too. Tons of people would show. Call some local reporters too, and email them all that info--they won't report what's not fed to them bit by bit. Why do they meet in an office park? Why isn't he invited to any real church? etc... Put some quotes together of Sheldon's "greatest" hits too. See if some local religious figure will make themselves available that day too, to give the reporter good quotes to counter Sheldon's shit .

Pam's House Blend maybe can help--email her--she's done for her area--Raleigh/Durham....

and one last thing, before I go to bed:

whenever I get into conversations like this, where I try to objectively examine and critique our methods of combating bigotry, I fear that I come across as some kind of apologist and I want to make sure that you all know that is expressly not what I intend. I have just as much invested in all the issues I argue about as anyone else here. I just fear that we might be unwittingly contributing to a balkanized America when we rise to their bait, and call me naive, but I still dream of a world where everybody can simply lay back and just dig eachother's uniqueness across the board. I've gained a lot from my gay experiences and time among gayfolk and I've also gained a lot from my time in other sectors of the world, too. I just want the bullshit petty infighting to end, because while confused but fundamentally decent people of all stripes carp at eachother, those in power are screwing us all blind.

jon, as long as the money keeps rolling in, and they get all the airtime they want, that's not going to happen. You don't remember the circus at Terri Schiavo's hospice? They all made millions from that, enabling them to keep on going even stronger than before.

Boring just has to make sure that the reporter has actual truth and facts to counter his shit. Just google them up--you already have some. I'm sure Sheldon's organization has already contacted all the local media too.

jon, you can lay back--the rest of us can't anymore. It doesn't stop them, and it in fact empowers them, and makes the rest of the country think that what they do is ok and that what they say is ok--it's not.

Boring, contact the MCC in Athens, Georgia too (and if there's one in Atlanta too)

We know you're not, jon. I used to be as non-combative as you are... I consider myself a taoist, and am not about forcing events to the way I want them to be but- I also see that we are being walked over.

amberglow, these are good ideas- thanks for the info. I've already sent a few emails- I don't think there ARE any "local bloggers" in Doraville, but I'll try the rest.

there's a state by state list of bloggers somewhere--i'll dig it up for you. Here are some--LeftyBlogs--Georgia

and this is the one i was thinking of: from American Street (google cache)

and do post at Kos.

jon, you can lay back

says who? to hard core haters like this I'm guilty by association at the very least, so that rules that out, and I've seen and done too much to remain idle. I just have a different role to play in this whole scenario.

You want to take down all the legal barriers to equality? Amen. But that's only half the battle. We're still left with a society where discrimination is illegal yet everybody fears and distrusts eachother. That's where different approaches come in, and that's where my function lies, I think. That's all I'm saying.

This isn't even about "legal" anything, though, jon.. it's an asshole coming in from the far side of the country to preach to my neighbors that I'm a threat to their marriages (or something). And I want to let said asshole know that some of us here KNOW he's an asshole... I dunno if I'll have the 'nads to actually do anything about it, but FUCK, it makes me mad.

The husband and I are just trying to get through life... we don't need anyone rolling into our town telling our neighbors that we're somehow evil. You can understand why that freaks us out, I'm sure.

you said it jon: ...but I still dream of a world where everybody can simply lay back and just dig eachother's uniqueness across the board. ...

is this you?

I recommended it. : >

The "things are getting better for gays" observation needs to be seen along with the fact that for millennia things have been getting better for gays when they weren't getting worse. There have been many cycles of relative acceptance followed by cycles of repression. Historically, the better things get the more likely that the hammer is coming next.

Sorry I'm late to the party. At least I'm not drunk like Albiciades at the Symposium.

BP: There's really only one solution. You have to organize. You, personally. The fact are that you're bent over this asshole and there's nobody already doing it.

So it's you or nobody - face it.

That cold douche being delivered, here's a few things you need to know.

1) A half-baked protest is duck soup for these goons. They're used to it and you're not. So dig in for the long haul. The only purpose for an immediate protest is to rally people for a long organizing drive. A flash in the pan is counter-productive.

2) If you are up for it, it's going to take a long time and consume your life. Most organizing efforts take two years to fully bear fruit. By then, you will have the power to back these creeps down in your own backyard. Until you win a big one, it's only grist for their mill. So be prepared to lose a few battles to win the war.

3) This is all about power. Right now, they have it and you don't. A demonstration is a demonstration of political power. The power doesn't come from the demonstration, it's what makes the demonstration succeed. So demonstrating powerlessness is counterproductive, unless it is part of a long-term strategy to build power. Once you have that power, it will self-perpetuate. Until then you will look like an underdog and a loser.

4) There is help out there, but it's help to improve your chances of organizing successfully. It's not help to solve the problem for you. There's nobody to fix things for you, but there are lots of people to help you fix things yourself.

5) This is conflict, not negotiation. Asking nicely gets you nothing. What you want from these creeps, you'll have to take from them and be prepared to fight them to keep it. They know their power, but they don't know yours. They are not used to having their ass kicked and they will go berserk the first time they sense opposition. Once they get beaten (usually on a counterattack, rarely in a direct assault) they will be much less likely to get in anybody's face again. Until then, they will be arrogant, prideful and predictable.

I've been doing this all my life and I haven't taken a major loss in years. Email's in the profile. Think about it.