Heh, I never tip anyone so I guess I out-lazy the lot of ya.

You mean, too lazy to tip two people? I didn't see that. I saw a lot of people who had no idea that the assistant should be tipped separately.

There's a huge confusion in this country about tipping, and a lot of people who don't tip at all. I had a friend in college who would go out with us to all-night bull sessions at a coffee shop, and never tip. "Why should I pay somebody extra for doing their job?" was his rationale. The fact that he got lousy service he saw as a correlation, but not the one you'd expect. Anyway.

This guy pretty well nails it, I think. Of course I've only had my hair cut at a salon maybe five times in my life (Supercuts or girlfriends otherwise). I don't recall dealing with anyone other than the receptionist and the stylist then. *shrug*

I'm continually shocked that people are so lazy that they pay someone else to shampoo and cut their hair.

There's a huge confusion in this country about tipping, and a lot of people who don't tip at all.

I'm not surprised there's confusion - that's what tipping creates, confusion! My experience, as an Australian, travelling to Canada and the US last year, was one of complete terror. You see, over here, we don't tip. No-one. Not ever. Well, except maybe a certain elite set in Sydney might drop a few coins in a bowl after dining at their $120 / head restaurant. And also, the laziness of telling the taxi driver to "keep the change".

The person pouring my coffee gets paid to do that job, the same as I get paid to to my job. And, by law, they're paid a decent amount. Minimum wage in Australia is, I think, around $13 per hour. And people working in bars and cafes usually earn significantly more than that.

The person cutting my hair gets paid too. I pay them. A set amount. At the cash register, as I leave the store. Amazing as it may seem, the amount I owe them is often written on a sign on the wall!

Shit, some places, hotels etc. actually employ staff to do things like clean your room, or carry your bags, or park your car, without you personally having to owe the person any of your spare change at all! And yes, they still do a fine, friendly job of it.

Look, I can't emphasize this to you people enough. Tipping is strange, confusing, complicates otherwise straightforward monetary transactions, and instills a culture of servitude and inequality. Get over it, please.

I can't imagine waiting tables without tips. They'd not pay me enough.

Tipping is strange, confusing, complicates otherwise straightforward monetary transactions, and instills a culture of servitude and inequality.

I think you've nailed it! As one of the U.S.'s worker bees, I can tell you, this culture of servitude and inequality is what the (not so hidden anymore) class system in the U.S. is all about. Actually paying an employee an equitable wage would crash the system. And, um, maybe that's not such a bad idea.

Yeah. I say it creates a culture of servitude and inequality, because it divides society into two groups. Group A gets paid a wage to do a job. Group B doesn't get paid a livable wage, and has to rely instead on the "kindness" of the strangers they "serve", usually those of group A.

I guess Australia is just a bit more of an egalitarian place. We don't consider the person bringing us our coffee, or cutting our hair, or carrying our bags, to be some lowly serf who we have to throw spare change at. I guess we think of them as doing just another job. Some people plan investment strategies. Some people fix cars. Some people program computers. Some people make coffee. Deal.

what cmonkey, jimbob, and jelly said.

*fondles Wahl clippers affectionately*

I've nearly ground my teeth into powder over people I've known who struggled with tipping. Otherwise rational, responsible and conversationally stimulating people have whined in full seriousness over how they can't process 10% of their bill's value, halving that amount (for 5%), then adding the two for the gratuity. Yet they somehow made it through grade school and college.

While tipping creates imbalance, it's also a byproduct of economic disparity. Until a better cure is in place, I've few qualms as far as applying the occasional bandage.

go jimbob!

tipping is a fecked up system.

Quoting Capn Bellamy:

I am sorry they won't let you have your sloop again, for I scorn to do any one a mischief, when it is not to my advantage; damn the sloop, we must sink her, and she might be of use to you. Though you are a sneaking puppy, and so are all those who will submit to be governed by laws which rich men have made for their own security; for the cowardly whelps have not the courage otherwise to defend what they get by knavery; but damn ye altogether: damn them for a pack of crafty rascals, and you, who serve them, for a parcel of hen-hearted numbskulls. They vilify us, the scoundrels do, when there is only this difference, they rob the poor under the cover of law, forsooth, and we plunder the rich under the protection of our own courage. Had you not better make then one of us, than sneak after these villains for employment?

* cackles evilly *

also

I'm continually shocked that people are so lazy that they pay someone else to shampoo and cut their hair.

It's not laziness. It's a lack of skill. Trust me, I've tried.

I have no problem with tipping. When I get good service, I enjoy having more of an outlet to say thanks than a passing comment. I also don't buy the class argument because in America at least, most everyone tips. The families on welfare who spend their monthly dinner out at the Olive Garden tip. I tip at Supercuts, at Starbucks and at my local bar if (and here's the pointed part), I get good service. The idea that people don't do this (certain cultures such as Australia excepted) bothers me.

Yeah, I'm lazy.

Now I'm going to go over to my lawyer's office, and tip his secretary, the IT guy, and the kid in the mail room.

I have a subset of friends who tip outrageous amounts (I tip moderately, usually 5-20% based on round or convenient numbers and service [in Canada - there's a minimum wage and wait staff at the places we frequent make much more than minwag]).

The most well-off friend )who only moderately tips) likes to point out, "Dude, they make more money than you do."

Well, in the end I did "deal" with tipping in the US and Canada. My first experience was in the international lounge at LAX, where, between my flights from Sydney and to Montreal, I decided while I was in the US I'd grab a burger and a beer. So I found some themed "diner", and ordered a burger, chips and beer, which was all very nice. I went to pay. By my Australian logic, I'm thinking "this is a place in the airport. They've got a captive customer base. They charge steep prices." It didn't occur to me to tip, because I never have before. But as I was walking out, the bartender made some snarky comment to me.

if (and here's the pointed part), I get good service.

Well I guess I can be forgiven then, because the service wasn't that great. But hey, I didn't expect good service in a themed diner in an airport lounge anyway. I expected something to eat. Nonetheless, upon arriving in Canada, I thought fuck it, I'm not paying for this trip, my employer is. From that point on, I just released my antipodean guilt by tipping 20% everywhere I went, and putting it on the ol' plastic fantastic.

Al, I do think cmonkey was using that "sarcasm" device to post.

Jimbob, I'm fascinated -- I forgot there was anyplace in the world that doesn't use tipping. I know when we were in Europe some years back my dad and I were both baffled by tipping customs, which are rather more formalized. Like the tuxedo-clad coat check guy who actually stands and coughs as he holds out his hand for a tip, and it's ginormous by US standards (no $1 in a bowl). Meanwhile the waiters get no tip? At least supposedly, according to Fodor's.

The Aussie example is really practical and should be the norm everywhere.

On the other hand, I don't want to eliminate the giving of a wine bottle to a building super, or a fiver for the letter carrier at Christmas. Those are sort of guarantees of continued good service for someone you see regularly. So, I'm inconsistent.

On the other hand, I don't want to eliminate the giving of a wine bottle to a building super, or a fiver for the letter carrier at Christmas.

That's not really "tipping", though - it's just a friendly gift. Their income doesn't rely on it. When I remember to, I leave a couple of bottles of wine out for the garbage men around Christmas time.

*makes note to self. Jimbob's house early AM just before Christmas*