Moonbird, I think you're both justified.

It's totally reasonable for you to want to have a glass of wine with your dinner, or a beer with your buds.

Your new guy, though -- if he's an addict and is making a good-faith effort to stay sober, you need to recognize that he needs to avoid triggers. Cocktail parties -- those are going to make him want to drink, because everyone else will.

He might have an easier time attending those things knowing that you are his partner in sobriety (at least for the night). Makes it feel less alienating, anyway.

Both of you need to compromise a bit here. But, wait until you and he both know he can handle it before you ask him to make that kind of sacrifice.

Better a sober boyfriend than a coked up one you can share a beer with, no?

Moonbird, it sounds like you really want to make this work. If that is indeed true, you'll eventually adjust to his lifestyle issues, and hopefully vice versa. At this point, I must ask, how new is "new"? Don't panic or anything, just give the situation a chance to develop. Nothing ventured, nothing gained, eh?

I agree with pieisexactlythree - but it cuts both ways.

It sucks to be a potential trigger for something that your friend is trying to avoid/handle, but if your friend likes you back as much - is it fair that they alter your behavior (when you don't particularly desire to change)?

On the pessimistic side; if they're unable to abide with your imbibing alcohol in reasonable quantities, how much control do they have in their narcotics addiction/desire? ie., if they can't deal with you having a drink, what're the odds that they may go back to substance abuse (without your influence, one way or another)?

It's a tough situation - my heart goes out to you - but you'll have to judge the person yourself. They sound like they're solid, but how much is it that it's someone rather no-one who's in your life?

Sorry, and I hope it works out in the best possible way for you.

I've dated two women who were in recovery. I seldom drink, but I drank less. Both could tolerate being in situations like you describe, but both had been in recovery for years. If your beau is only recently in recovery, he really and truly shouldn't be around alcohol. If you feel like that's too much to ask, then that honestly is, or should be, a deal breaker. For someone in recovery, there simply isn't anything more important. Also, if he's only been in recovery for a short while, he shouldn't be getting into a relationship, either.

You could also consider dropping by alanon and getting a sense of what you're getting in to.

Another thing, totally outside of the NA question, is that it can be difficult to adjust to being in a relationship after being on your own for an extended period.

I think there's a lot that's comfortable about being single. You can do things exactly as you prefer, you don't have to always consider the partner before making choices, making purchases, or even deciding what time to eat supper. But when you're with somebody, you make a lot of changes. If they're dieting, you don't keep snickers in the freezer, if they're a neatnick, you're going to be picking up those clothes from floor... etc.

It's easier for younger people who have been accustomed to living under their parents' rule, in dorms, with roommates, etc., but for adults who've become somewhat set in their ways, really integrating someone else into their day-to-day routine can be slightly shocking. Just being aware of this can be helpful; don't worry too much that he doesn't slide right into some pre-existing slot in your life. It doesn't mean that much at this point that there's some oddness, some awkwardness, some feeling that things are kind of off-balance. They really are! It's your feelings over time that are going to matter. It's possible that it just may never settle into a comfortable-couple thing, but it's probably too early to tell yet.

I've got to confess; I'm not a recovering alcoholic or anything (is that what NA means?), but I've never really been comfortable around an S.O. that's drinking. At first I thought it was control issues, but I was able to trace my issues back to a precedent or two when she-who-I-was-with-at-the-time got shitfaced so as not to have to deal with me. I resolved that one by getting my S.O. and I (not the same relationship/s) drunk alone together, and then cuddling and canoodling like a couple of college freshmen. Once I saw I didn't have to worry about her getting all crazy-stupid/promiscuous or anything, it became easier to relax. Alcohol 'changes' people (at least when not used in moderation), and that can be really scary when it's the person you love; no one wants to see them change into someone they don't love or even know, if you follow the logic. It can be really scary to see someone you care about go from "I love you, sweetie!" to "Get the fuck away from me, you're smothering me!" But that's just my experience.

I have no clue if that's helpful in any way.

Loooong answer, apologies in advance.

Kmellis and taz have really excellent observations.

The first consideration is - how long has he been sober? New rocoveries are, obviously, more fragile and take a high priority. After years have gone by, many people show more flexibility in the types of situations they can tolerate. However, everyone's triggers are different, and they must be managed individually. I have known a recovering alcoholic chef who could cook with wine and brandy all day and never be tempted, but could not go near a typical party with booze. Another friend could hang out in the bar with us and enjoy a ginger ale while everyone got plastered, but couldn't have wine in the house. And so on. If you are trying to make things work with this person, it's pretty essential that you honor his recovery process and allow him to keep his boundaries where they need to be.

You said he'd "rather not see you drink" -- I hope that was phrased as a request and negotiated - because a central tenet of 12-step programs is that you can control only your choices, no one else's. So if you really want to drink, he has to recognize that it's your choice and that he's not in a position to judge whether it's the right thing for you to do or not. But then his choice becomes "Do I stay with someone who drinks when it's a problem for me to see it?" It's tricky - but please notice these are choices, not rules. If he's trying to impose a rule on you about it, he's not done with the "control" part of NA.

Taz's point about being single a long time is equally valuable. So, if it wasn't this, it'd be something else that required a change in your behavior. Having recently started dating after a 3-year hiatus, I was uncomfortable with some of this too. ('I have to call you all the time now? But I'm busy! Friday, you want to go out Friday? But that's when I go to the bluegrass session! You're inconvenient!' etc.) I had to really face this head-on. I was all too comfortable single, and a little health scare this summer illustrated in a blindingly obvious way that close human connection was missing from my life and that it's something everyone needs. So wholeheartedly going forward meant accepting that there would be disruptions to my perfect, cute house, my schedule, and my sense of stodgy security. That's kind of what relationships are all about, a little risk, a little negotiation.

Another something to think about. The guy I just was dating was in recovery from alcohol. It worried me at first, because I drink socially. It did mean certain activities were ruled out. But I had to ask myself: if I turned this great guy down because I couldn't deal with not drinking together or drinking around him, then who has the problem here? Evaluating the role of alcohol in your life might be called for. Not suggesting that there is a problem, but it's one of those substances that it's good to use with understanding and intentionality. I decided that drinking was not more important to me than finding a good connection with someone. If one of the two had to go, it would be the drinking.

Another thought: before this guy, my last loonng relationship was with an active alcholic who never got it together. So when this came along, I found something very appealing about a relationship in which drinking played no role at all. It wasn't a crutch or a tool, there was none of that false-romantic 'fuzz' that drinking gives to everything, no 'wow, I got so drunk last night! Sorry I said [whatever]', and everything that happened was real and genuine and because we wanted it to, as alert sober people. Which was pretty nice and new, considering how much most of us enlist alcohol to help get over the early awkward moments in relationships. At least I have done that.

Another thought: being in bed with a guy who hasn't had anything to drink has its benefits.

A final thought: kmellis' suggestion about attending an Al-Anon is a really good one. If you stay with the guy, it will help you understand the nature and structure of his experience in a 12-step program. Also, Al-Anon is designed to focus on you, not on your partner. So you can learn ways of dealing with questions like these from others who are in the same situation. I found it extremely helpful.

So many people have said so many wise things that I would never have thought of. All I can think of is that "wants to be the center of the conversation" raised a yellow flag (not red, but something to keep an eye on) for me, as did the issue of him asking you not to do something (with miko's caveat that it all depends on how he phrased it). I'd just say keep your eyes open and make sure he is willing to respect who you are and what your choices are and why you make the choices you do. Don't let smittenness blind you if he starts to seem kind of controlling. On the other hand, if he is awesome, then go for it, and you've got some good advice above to help you work it out.

(Another person who's been out of couple relationships for about 8 years and is pretty attached to my freedom.)

P.S. Taz, you are so wise. I'm going to print that out and put it on my wall for if I ever get into a relationship.

All I can think of is that "wants to be the center of the conversation" raised a yellow flag (not red, but something to keep an eye on) for me

Yeah - *chuckle* - I thought that was actually the most serious concern in the list, too.

That might also be a function of new recovery too (recovery is in large part a big navel gaze; it has to be).

I, a committed alcoholic, was in a relationship with a woman who had been in NA for many years. She didn't come right out and ask me to not drink around her, nor did she criticize my decisions, but it felt so strange to be intoxicated in front of her that I just didn't drink when she was around. Unfortunately, it caused a fracture in my life, where I would have days where I spent time with her, and days where I spent time with my friends, and the two worlds couldn't be integrated.

We lasted several years like that, though, so it's certainly not impossible to do, as long as your boyfriend doesn't start giving you trouble for having a glass of wine at dinner.

If that were the only problem, I'd say just suck it up and make something work, but he does sorta sound like he might turn out to be a real jerk, and man, I know how it is to be smitten and blind to faults with a new romantic interest, so be careful.

FYI:

NA == Narcotics Anonymous
AA == Alcoholics Anonymous

One of the SOs I mentioned was an alcoholic, but she preferred to go to NA meetings because she felt that the people there were more like herself. AA meetings have a lot of people court-ordered to be there because of DUIs. And they're older.

Thank you, everyone! What awesome, sincere and thoughtful answers!

He's been in Narcotoics Anon for four months now, so I understand this is a delicate time for him. Yet I am aware that those new to recovery aren't typically supposed to get involved in relationships, though his sponsor seems to have approved. Fortunately, my long period of singlehood hasn't been some kinda exile, and I have my wits about me. We really have a great chemistry, and I understand that getting smitten and blinded by love will only lead to heartache. So, I'm really trying to be pragmatic. I suppose I was a little taken aback at even the first mention of the word 'boyfriend,' yet we have been growing closer... all the while I've begun to slowly dig my feet into the sand to slow things down. Not having my normal time to myself, et cetera, has even made me a little cranky. Though I know that how I spend my time is my choice, and he at least acknowledges my need for space.

Fortunately, I'm really familiar with AA and NA. I am a trainer for a local substance abuse prevention group, and feel that I'm knowledgeable enough... especially having an alcoholic father and my own problem with hard drugs in the mid 90s. I suppose I'm just anxious about how all this will 'work.' I really want to honor his process, and yet feel comfortable with my lifestyle and resistant to making significant changes in it for another person. Of course, there are always little tweaks here and there that we all make. That's totally to be expected. But in thinking about Miko's point about him "rather not seeing me drink" did raise the curious spectre of control. I've seen NA turn people into control freaks before, while turning others into fully capable and independent-minded people. He's so new to the process (and heavily invested in it) it's probably tooearly to tell how he will reshape himself from it. I just feel a little odd that most conversation revolves around him--- he doesn't ask me a lot of questions about my life, but thoroughly can expound upon his.

I've got to go now, but I'll check in with slightly more coherent thoughts later this evening.

You guys really, really rock. I feel so much better getting this out.

A couple more thoughts about the "focus of conversation" thing (which are actually going to contradict what I said earlier).

I'm an extrovert. Most of my nearest and dearest are introverts (I tend to think that's the best compatibility). Sometimes when you're an extrovert talking to introverts you forget that they're not like you and are not going to willingly volunteer information about themselves, so you forget to ask them those little direct questions to draw out their day or their opinion or whatever, because you assume that if they wanted to talk about themselves they would have already, because that's what you would do. So meanwhile the introverts are sitting there thinking that you, the extrovert, are really self-centered (which maybe you are, a little, but you mean well). So introverts, if you're hanging out with an extrovert, dare to speak up a little more - it will probably be welcomed, if they like you. And us extroverts need to learn to slow down a little bit and ask more questions.

Very interesting thread.

I don't have much to add, except maybe that any lifestyle changes you make for him are potential resentments aginst him down the road. Just something to be aware of as you make decisions.

See ya later, Mr. Man.

moonbird: based on your second comment, I think you have everything you need to figure this out. Be confident. You'll find your way. And it sounds like he really likes you.

MB: I completely agree with the extrovert thing.