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30 December 2005

AskMecha: Would it be OK to post a "commercial" web site I am working on to get some feedback?→[More:]Other than my own (very basic and code-wise crap) site I have never created a website for anyone else. One of my former profs offered me what is essentially an honorarium to do a site for him and I accepted as I would like to learn more about web development. He is a local tenor looking for gigs and it is his first online venture. It's a very small site and I have got it mostly done, I think.

I am full of questions and I really want feedback from the experienced web designers here as to my design, my fuckups, browser compatibility, HTML, the dreaded CSS and lots of other stuff. I don't want to link spam MetaChat (he has registered his own domain and I managed to get the site up (yay!) but I can link to a duplicate of the site that I have hosted as a subdomain on my own site. What is a mirror, anyway? I'm serious.).

If it is OK with the community I could sure use some advice and feedback.

post by: Cryptical Envelopment at: 18:58 | 31 comments

I'd be willing to help.

posted by arse_hat 30 December | 19:36

A mirror is a complete copy of a web or ftp site. Graphics, text, files, directory structure, etc.

posted by cmonkey 30 December | 19:38

Thanks, arse_hat. I am just now getting some withering criticism from a friend. :-) The code is a dog's breakfast, but I knew that already.

I will wait for a couple more affirmatives before I inflict this mess on you all. I really need to understand how style sheets work. I thought my so-called "Master" page was enough. I am using this software and it is very frustrating, though the new version supports CSS. My current masterpiece is in HTML 4, apparently.

On preview, that's what I figured, cmonkey. I have been uploading every revision of this site twice today. I thought a mirror might actually allow me to update both domain destinations at once as opposed to having to upload all the files to site one and then again to site 2. But I am just getting the hang of FTP so no faliure is unexpected.

posted by Cryptical Envelopment 30 December | 19:45

To hell with it. Here is the site:

Dillon Parmer, Lyric Tenor

link removed by request - taz

posted by Cryptical Envelopment 30 December | 19:50

The "Gallery" and "Links" pages are not active yet.

posted by Cryptical Envelopment 30 December | 19:55

It looks like you have done a pretty good job. For something you are doing for an 'honorarium' I would say stop right there.

There is something odd going on with the coloring being a little flat vis a vis the head shot blending a little too much with the background color. You might want to fool around with the image and make it sepia or something. Drop the splash page please, these days they are only seen on porn sites (so I've heard, haven't seen em myself).

Nice work overall though.

posted by Mr T 30 December | 20:08

Over all it looks good. I would jusify the paragraphs to be more in keeping with the formal layout. Second the splash page removal.

posted by arse_hat 30 December | 20:10

I'd set the page background to the dark grey of the surround.

posted by arse_hat 30 December | 20:18

Thanks, mr t, and you saw how I designed the site: I took that b/w portrait (a great picture of Dillon) and made the colour scheme shades of grey. His letterhead gave me the deep read, and the fonts Impact and Brush 455 for the "logo" such as it is.

I'd "stop right there" but he is a cool guy and I want to learn more and if I put significant effort into it I am sure he will compensate me. He is delighted with my work so far. :-(

I will drop the splash page, but I will have to incorporate those reviews into the Home page text. Cool. Thanks!

posted by Cryptical Envelopment 30 December | 20:19

The text is really lost then, arse_hat. I had the whole thing darker a few tries ago, but such a dark background makes the (black) text hard to read, no? And making the text brighter than the background is a non-starter at this point.

I really appreciate your time.

posted by Cryptical Envelopment 30 December | 20:37

No no, CE. The background behind the text is fine, however the darker grey colour around the main area does not extend all the way to the right side of the screen or the bottom of the screen. I think you should be able to fix it by setting the page background to the dark grey.

posted by arse_hat 30 December | 20:54

OK, and thanks. This is the issue that is in my face and is pissing me off. Borders. I will figure it out.

Thanks... Can you tell me what browser and OS you are using?

It helps to know!

posted by Cryptical Envelopment 30 December | 21:02

Right now win 2003 with IE and Opera. I'll take a look from linux too.

posted by arse_hat 30 December | 21:06

That is pricelesss info. Thanks, arse_hat.

posted by Cryptical Envelopment 30 December | 21:14

Linux with Kongueror 3.3.1 and Firefox 1.0.7. Nothing is laid out right but that isn't surprising because your code is not going to be campatible with old browsers.

More of a problem is that the text in the left column runs past the end of the column under the latest Opera under SUSE and RedHat.

posted by arse_hat 30 December | 21:52

or compatible even.

posted by arse_hat 30 December | 21:53

i like it but why grey?

it looks good in firefox 1.5/osX

posted by amberglow 30 December | 22:05

The pic, amberglow. He likes that shot so so do I. And I have no command color-wise.

posted by Cryptical Envelopment 30 December | 22:35

The above-mentioned friend is an Opera cultist and he poked many holes.

OK. I'll make it right if it kills me.

I just want this to look good.

XO : >

posted by Cryptical Envelopment 30 December | 22:44

I have too many friends. Who'd have thought!

posted by Cryptical Envelopment 30 December | 22:45

Looks great CE. I think you're right that you're almost ready to launch.

However, if your next goal is learn new web development skills, release the current version and then just ditch all that Freeway generated code for the next one. Knowing it's unreadable doesn't help you much, you need to get a text editor and put the pieces together by hand (using current web standards) if you want to really understand how to tweak it.

posted by danostuporstar 30 December | 23:00

Thanks danostuporstar, very much.

I have to figure this out for my own sake.

My current solution (Freeway) is not a reasonable solution. I need to learn HTML and the rest of it. It becomes a matter of resposibility to the larger project. I'm glad I am a musician.

posted by Cryptical Envelopment 30 December | 23:26

dano, I was going to suggest the something similar but I think pure text editing is a bit ambitious.

CE, I would generally recommend a person in your situation work with the old Dreamweaver 4. It supports basic html 3.2 and style sheets and allows for WYSIWYG development AND text based html for learning and tweaking. The problem is I know zip about Macs and don't know what to recommend to you. Perhaps you could formulate a new ax me to get help from some of the mac folks?

posted by arse_hat 30 December | 23:39

I think it looks really great. The Freeway coding, though, is nightmarish in ways that are impossible to overstate.

Whatever you do, don't try to figure out what was done here and learn from that, because just about everything that could be done wrong, has been. The most critical problem is the way the dark grey background has been created with images; when I get time, I'm going to try to see if there's a relatively easy way to convert that to something more benign...

If you look at any page in FireFox, and increase the text size, it totally breaks the format - this is mostly due to this bizarre construction of creating the borders with static, absolutely-positioned images. And... oh, too much to even address. If this program were a person, you could safely murder it in the bloodiest, most painful way possible - and no jury would ever convict you!

But the design is lovely, so if you think you're interested in pursuing this sort of thing, I'd strongly encourage you to go ahead and start learning.

posted by taz 31 December | 01:14

Futher to what taz said, nothing you have done can't be done with simple tables and bg colours. You need a simple WYSIWYG editor.

posted by arse_hat 31 December | 01:28

Thanks taz and arse_hat! I know these ideas are within my grasp and it looks like a lot of fun. So to speak. This site will be stuck where it is until I can get better at this stuff. I think one long day spent learning code and protocols in stead of drinking will be a day well spent. :-)

posted by Cryptical Envelopment 31 December | 03:43

I think one long day spent learning code and protocols in stead of drinking will be a day well spent.

OK lets not get silly!

posted by arse_hat 31 December | 03:55

Cryptical, I've figured out a few things that will save you some big headaches, but it's just a matter of getting the info to you. I can send you a revised layout for the first page, in which I've just changed some of the absolutely positioned stuff so that text size can be increased, or you can add additional text, without overflowing your borders. Then you can do the same with the other pages. (not a complete re-do, because it's just too much with all the table cells, but the minimum changes that will do the trick.)

I have to go shop now, but I'll contact you later to get it to you.

posted by taz 31 December | 03:59

Thanks taz! and LOL arse_hat! I'll never get quite that sober but you are inspiring!

posted by Cryptical Envelopment 31 December | 04:03

This is great folks. I will look into finding myself a copy of Dreamweaver 4 (ahem) and I look forward to advice from taz. I really like trying to do this. It is very, very different from music.

posted by Cryptical Envelopment 02 January | 23:52

And he's expanded his bio/home page and he loves the splash page as a take-oof point for the French translation so I'm a bit stuck there. Is there any way to remove the above link, taz? I'd hate for this thread to be the first time this site gets indexed... :-(

posted by Cryptical Envelopment 02 January | 23:56

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