Him: Is this a Christmas Party?

Me: Well, we have lots of non-Christians in the office, so: nope, it's a holiday party.

Him: What's that got to do with it?

Me: Dude, I hope you're pulling my leg! Rascal.

Him: What prompted the celebration?

Me: All the hard work that folks have put in! The holiday season! Woo hoo!

Him: Yes but what caused it to be a holiday season? It is the Thanlksgiving and Christmas Season. Both celebrating National Holoidays based upon Christian events,

Me: Have to disagree with you there, Cliff.

Sure, Christmas is a Christian holiday. But I think that Thanksgiving is not really viewed by the majority to be a particularly religious holiday. It's about celebrating thankfulness for what we have, which, on the most popularly documented early Thanksgiving, was the food the Wampanoag tribe gave the pilgrims. (Perhaps if Thanksgiving is to be considered a non-secular holiday, it should be considered to be a Native American spirituality celebration in honor of the life-saving Wampanoags.)

And holy cow! What about about Hanukkah? This year, it even falls on the same day as Christmas!

Other winter holidays that many Americans celebrate include: New Year's Day (that's a pretty big secular one), Kwanzaa, Boxing Day, Yule, Winter Solstice (Pagan), Winter Lent, Eid (Muslim), and Makar Sankranti (Hindu).

And as I mentioned, we have many non-Christian employees attending the party, and I think it's considered polite to acknowledge that fact by not turning it into a religious celebration.

Or, I guess... We could call it a Hanuchristmanewkwanzsolsticeeidsankranti Party!

*end*

I'm kind of hoping he doesn't respond, as I won't be able to carry on a civil conversation. I already think my last email to him was pushing the boundaries of civility in regards to a co-worker (what do you think?), but my god, what a dick to shove it in my face like that! Gah!

I'm imagining all sort of scenarios where I'm at the party and he makes me mad and I hit him with a pool cue.

Just wait till you have him in a crowd at the party and then whisper something in his ear, then push him away and say in your loudest most offended voice:

NO I won't join you in a toast to white power and the joys of pedophilia, I don't care if it is the holidays, you sick fuck.

Specklet, I can't believe this. It almost sounds as if you're making it up, and it totally brings to mind this classic (joke) email exchange:


December 1 Memo


FROM: Pat Lewis, Human Resources Director
DATE: December 1
RE: Christmas Party

I'm happy to inform you that the company Christmas Party
will take place on December 23, starting at noon in the
banquet room at Luigi's Open Pit Barbecue. No host bar,
but plenty of eggnog! We'll have a small band playing
traditional carols...feel free to sing along. And don't Be
surprised if our CEO shows up dressed as Santa Claus!

December 2 Memo

FROM: Pat Lewis, Human Resources Director
DATE: December 2
RE: Christmas Party

In no way was yesterday's memo intended to exclude our
Jewish employees. We recognize that Hanukkah is an
important holiday which often coincides with Christmas,
though unfortunately not this year. However, from now on
we're calling it our "Holiday Party." The same policy
applies to employees who are celebrating Kwanzaa at this
time.

Happy now?

December 3 Memo

FROM: Pat Lewis, Human Resources Director
DATE: December 3
RE: Holiday Party

Regarding the note I received from a member of Alcoholics
Anonymous requesting a nondrinking table ... you didn't
sign your name. I'm happy to accommodate this request, but
if I put a sign on a table that reads "AA Only" you
wouldn't be anonymous anymore. How am I supposed to handle
this? Somebody?

December 7 Memo

FROM: Pat Lewis, Human Resources Director
DATE: December 7
RE: Holiday Party

What a diverse company we are! I had no idea that December
2 begins the Muslim holy month of Ramadan, which forbids
eating, drinking and sex during daylight hours. There goes
the party! Seriously, we can appreciate how a luncheon
this time of year does not accommodate our Muslim
employees' beliefs. Perhaps Luigi's can hold off on
serving your meal until the end of the party the days
are so short this time of year or else package
everything for takehome in little foil swans. Will that
work?

Meanwhile, I've arranged for members of Overeaters
Anonymous to sit farthest from the dessert buffet and
pregnant women will get the table closest to the
restrooms. Did I miss anything?

December 8 Memo

FROM: Pat Lewis, Human Resources Director
DATE: December 8
RE: Holiday Party

So December 22 marks the Winter Solstice...what do you
expect me to do, a tapdance on your heads? Fire
regulations at Luigi's prohibit the burning of sage by our
"earthbased Goddessworshipping" employees, but we'll try
to accommodate your shamanic drumming circle during the
band's breaks. Okay???

December 9 Memo

FROM: Pat Lewis, Human Resources Director
DATE: December 9
RE: Holiday Party

People, people, nothing sinister was intended by having
our CEO dress up like Santa Claus! Even if the anagram of
"Santa" does happen to be "Satan," there is no evil
connotation to our own "little man in a red suit." It's a
tradition, folks, like sugar shock at Halloween or family
feuds over the Thanksgiving turkey or broken hearts on
Valentine's Day. Could we lighten up?

December 10 Memo

FROM: Pat Lewis, Human Resources Director
DATE: December 10
RE: Holiday Party

Vegetarians!?!?!? I've had it with you people!!! We're
going to keep this party at Luigi's Open Pit Barbecue
whether you like it or not, so you can sit quietly at the
table furthest from the "grill of death," as you so
quaintly put it, and you'll get your freaking salad bar,
including hydroponic tomatoes. But you know, they have
feelings too. Tomatoes scream when you slice them. I've
heard them scream. I'm hearing them scream right now!

December 14 Memo

FROM: Teri Bishops, Acting Human Resources Director
DATE: December 14
RE: Pat Lewis and Holiday Party

I'm sure I speak for all of us in wishing Pat Lewis a
speedy recovery from her stress related illness and I'll
continue to forward your cards to her at the sanatorium.

In the meantime, management has decided to cancel our
Holiday Party and give everyone the afternoon of the 23rd
off with full pay.

We hope that this change does not offend anyone.

I seem to remember Roberto Begnini's character in Down By Law killing someone with a cue ball. Just in case there's not a stick handy when the time comes.

What a jerk. Let him know that Santa's been watching him right before the bludgeoning begins.

And holy cow!


I am a Hindu and I object to that

Buy the boy a clue and sense of humor. And perhaps a trip to the proctologist to remove the stick from his ass.

He's just marching to Bill O'Reilly's tune. Probably never had an original idea in his life.

You know (and I really don't want to cause offence), I agree with the other guy.

This particular subject really twists my melon. Christmas is a Christian holiday. No matter what you call it, it is still the celebration of a Christian holiday. The idea that everybody has to bend over backwards pretending that they are not celebrating a Christian holiday aggrieves me no end. It is (and I absolutely hate to use this phrase) political correctness gone mad.

For Christians to not refer to this holiday as Christmas is, to me, patronising in the extreme. It seems to imply that anybody that chooses not to be a Christian is somehow unable to come to terms with the fact that they live in a country where Christian holidays are celebrated.

Here endeth the rant.

Geewad, what an ass. I can think about 200 things to say to your coworker, many of them involving bowel obstructions.

Anyway, I guess that since this is the year that the media have seized on to do their "Christmas under attack" stories, you're going to encounter a few more folks who have been extra crankified.

That said, I do confess to being a bit puzzled by the escalating weirdness about the big C word. I was picking up my Christmas tree a week ago and the saleswoman wished me a "Happy Holidays!" as I was leaving. Ditto the employee at the post office on Tuesday--this is after we had talked for about ten minutes about Christmas cookie recipes. This would be the same post office that has "Feliz Navidad" painted on the window in huge letters with "Happy Holidays" printed right next to it. Odd, odd, odd.

I dunno, Specklet, you have a point, but there are plenty of people who think like the other guy thinks, and if that's exactly what he said, it doesn't sound like he was a total asshole about it. But you know him in "real life", so you probably hear stuff like this from him all the time.

I'm really beginning to get annoyed at Christians.

They need to spend more time thinking about what the Sermon on the Mount meant, and less time being in others' faces.

Let's not generalize, orthogonality- not all Christians act the same.

office parties, unless you work at a Christian company, are not Christmas parties. They're like birthday parties or big parties some companies have when they sign a major account or make an exceptional amount of money that year.

Whether or not Christmas is celebrated by some or whether or not it's a legal national holiday has nothing to do with an office party.

It pisses me off that you don't understand that we're not all Christian and shouldn't have to celebrate what you celebrate--get over yourself.

(and meanwhile, not many people actually want to be at a party where it's the same jerks you see each day)

somehow unable to come to terms with the fact that they live in a country where Christian holidays are celebrated

and here I spent all my life under the impression that the world was run by lesbian Buddhist black women!


also, I'm sure the Jewish people just love to be reminded 24/7 for two months each year of the birth of an heretical Palestinian faith healer. it's got to be their favorite part of the year, second only to Easter, when we all remind the Jews THAT THEY KILLED TEH JESUS and, as that famous history book, the Gospel of Matthew (27:24-25), points out, they have gotten 2,000 years of pogroms for that.

on preview:

It pisses me off that you don't understand that we're not all Christian and shouldn't have to celebrate what you celebrate--get over yourself.

*hugs amberglow*

(and meanwhile, not many people actually want to be at a party where it's the same jerks you see each day)

Word! At my last place of work, everyone hated their job and HATED HATED HATED the boss- who wants to celebrate that?

I like presents.

Actually, I'm a severely lapsed Catholic. Forgive me Father, it's been over twenty years since my last confession. I think that religion in general sucks, and Christianity in particular sucks big time. So, in an effort not to seem like a patronising doofus, why don't you scale back somewhat on the generalisations?

It's a party. It's being held at Christmas. You know, I think even those non-Christians amongst us might be able to figure out that it is, actually, a Christmas party. This has more to do with the lefty-fascists of the US continuing to make themselves look ridiculous by calling a spade a wide-bladed-long-handled-manually-wielded-outdoor-use-digging-implement.

The people that try to pull of this "pretend it isn't Christmas in case we offend somebody" crap her in the UK, are usually the ones to be found alone in a corner at the work Festivus(tm) party.

But pink, generalization or not, damned few of them actually act like Jesus.

Or did I miss the Gospel where Jesus lead pogroms against the gays?

And what about those Christians who support the death penalty? Wasn't one of their close personal friends unjustly put to death by a cowardly governor?

Speaking of Christians, isn't Texas full of them? Texas, where conscious poor people get disconnected from life support. See, Terry Schiavo, though brain-dead, could still pay the bills.

I guess Jesus just likes to call them poor folks home, and the good Christians of Texas ain't gonna get in his way.

Fucking Philistines.

Roberto Begnini's character in Down By Law killing someone with a cue ball

A scene also present in Boondock Saints.

veedubya, as specklet said:

Other winter holidays that many Americans celebrate include: New Year's Day (that's a pretty big secular one), Kwanzaa, Boxing Day, Yule, Winter Solstice (Pagan), Winter Lent, Eid (Muslim), and Makar Sankranti (Hindu).

It's being held near a lot of holidays of which Christmas happens to be one.

Christmas is quickly becoming the Tom Cruise of Holidays. It's in danger of becoming far more annoying than it's worth. And I'm a big Christmas lover. (Not a big Cruise fan, however. Although, yeah, I liked him in Jerry Maguire, which he's now ruined for me by being unveiled as a total whack-job. So, perhaps, I'm just angry about that. I still love ya, Christmas! Don't ever change!)

But pink, generalization or not, damned few of them actually act like Jesus.

A common misconception, because you only hear about the nasty ones- they're usually the ones fighting on TV talk shows and putting out ridiculous press releases. But you better bet that every church in every city in the world has Christians working for good, and not for crap. I think the nasty ones are but a small minority of Christians around the world.

deborah, how many holidays that are purely pagan, with no other religious dates being near them, do workplaces commonly have parties for?

It's a party. It's being held at Christmas.

I have never been to a "Christmas" party that was actually on Christmas. In fact, it is far more likely to coincide with one of the other holidays listed.

People like having parties at the end of the calendar year, and it has fuck all to do with Christmas, really.

For reals! I want to have a party riiiight noooow.

Specklet,

Tell him he is free to celebrate the party as a Christmas party, just as all the other non-Christians are free to celebrate it calling it whatever the fuck they want.

If he still acts like a Christmilitant send him a gift basket of whoopass from his good friend sciurus.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, the Christians are working for good.

Giant mega-churches with coffee bars (and cathedrals filled with silver chalices and ivory alter-pieces and "Princes of the Church" in cloth-of-gold).

Electing Creationists to school boards and fundies to Congress.

Sheltering pederasts.

Condemning gays.

Giving "love offerings" to televangelists who promise that God will answer their prayers for money.

Killing people who need stem-cell therapy.

Taunting and harassing women too poor to have another child, but how many are adopting, let alone adopting black crack babies?

Whipping up paranoia about the "outlawing" of Christmas.

But how many of these "Christians" are serving the poor?

I figure one wouldn't be offended if all the Jews referred to the "Office Hanukah Party," or if the Muslims referred to the "Office Eid Party," or if some of the pagans referred to it as the "Office Yule Party" and some the "Office Saturnalia Party." That's pretty cool. But it would also take a lot of different decorations.

And if one said, "Merry Christmas" to someone, one doubtless wouldn't mind them saying, "well, merry Christmas back, but I'm not a Christian. Please say, 'Happy Hanukah' to me, because I'm Jewish."

Now, isn't "Happy Holidays" a lot easier? It's not like being considerate of others means Christ wasn't born on December 25th, is it?

And that "chooses not to be a Christian" shit really shows the horse you rode in on, veedubya. People choose not to be assholes. Religion is rarely a choice.

Again, orthogonality, you're only thinking of the nasty ones you see on the nightly news, not the whole church throughout the world. It's a very limited perspective, but it's yours so ::shrug:: I doubt I'm gonna change your mind, so I'll save my breath and just say: You're right! Christians are awful awful people

Can we please not start the religious flamewar in this thread? I come here to avoid that kind of stuff.

Seriously, this shit is wrongheaded on mefi. Here it's just appalling.

I agree with veedubya. Why not call a Christmas party a Christmas party? I mean, how are you going to disguise the truth of the situation when it's time for communion? Will you be covering up the crucifix with tinsel? Surely when the Priest comes out to give the midnight mass your cover will be blown?

I mean, it's not like this is just a random social gathering of co-workers drinking punch and eating seasonal cookies. This is a spiritually significant religious ritual steeped in rich Christian symbolism.

With nog.

The "attack on Christmas" is the new shark attack, only winterized.

My suggested response to Cliff: "Okay, Cliff, you win. Make sure you wear your Jesus costume, because no one else has one."

I have an office holiday party tonight and I am gonna get six kinds of shitfaced and sing songs and have a blast.

SHARKS ARE ATTACKING CHRISTMAS!!!!!

Woo woo, Divine_Wino, can I come?

Why is so important? I don't understand the obsession with semantics on the side of the religious. Jesus is "a" reason for the season, yes. But there were celebrations and ceremonies going on at this time of the year way before the Christians came along.

And if keeping Christ in Christmas is what people are so concerned about, why are they so focused on what greeting they get at Wal-Fuck? Keeping Christ in Christmas might better be brought forth by providing meals to those who have none, or just giving instead of spending.

I'm sure this has all been said before, but what the fuck does it take?

*gets shitfaced with D_W

My suggested response to Cliff: "Okay, Cliff, you win. Make sure you wear your Jesus costume, because no one else has one."

This is the comment that made me not mad anymore.

Hey, look at this: Jackie Mason to defend Christmas.

It's official: Christmas has jumped the shark.

Goodness. The O'Reilly "attack on xmas" thing. (This despite the fact that O'Reilly's page has "Holiday gifts" and not, as you would think..."Christmas gifts." I suppose the irony is lost on him.

SHARKS ON A MOTHERFUCKING SLEIGH!!!

I'm going to go postal if I hear one more cranky old bastard say, "In my day, we could say 'Merry Christmas' to people without being attacked by the PC police."

Yeah, buddy. When you were a kid, you probably also called Asian people "chinamen." Your father probably gave his secretary her Christmas bonus by slapping her on the ass.

This is not some anti-Christian movement. It's called being inclusive. It's called compromise. Just because you don't want to let go of your privilege (Christian, white, class, male, or other), doesn't mean you shouldn't.

Frankly, I'm offended at calling them "holidays" at all. Because it implies a default religious tendency. "Holidays" = "Holy days." But I'm willing to let that go, so long as I don't have to see a crucified baby jesus in a creche every time I go to the post office.

I won't even begin to read this whole thread; the first post was enough. Just tell your co-worker, with no further explanation, it's a holiday party. Period. And let him know if he doesn't like "holiday parties", he doesn't have to come. Ignore any further emails afte that (but save them in case he gets really out of hand and take them to management).

I work at a Jewish university and we have a holiday party. Are we supposed to call it a "Christmas party" too? Cos that would be kinda funny.

We are having a party because it's the end of a semester, among all the other reasons.

SHARKS ARE ATTACKING CHRISTMAS!!!!!

Oh my god. I mean...oh my whatever. jrossi, you are SO funny. I laugh out loud at almost all of your comments.

I'm as dyed-in-the-wool anti-religion as they come, but - meh - if someone wants to say merry christmas or call the office "party" a christmas party, they can go ahead.

Yeah, it's annoying but it's no skin off my butt. I got vaccinated already so it's not like I'm going to catch teh Xtianity meme or anything.

gaspode wins.

I think we can all agree that Trans-Siberian Orchestra must be stopped.

Happy motherfuckin' Solstice and Merry Saturnalia.

I'm so sick of hearing about Christians being oppressed by the "war on Christmas", I'm really considering skipping Christmas this year.

I'll be bringing a couple of lions to the party. The Xtians who want to play martyr (as opposed to their usual role of dominant culture fascists) can be treats for da widdle puddy tats. It's traditional.

Anybody who equates Christian = White burns in hell. (Just so you know.)

Short answer is "If you don't like people in your face, stay out of theirs."

And tell that prig he doesn't have to come if it's such a bummer. Sheesh.

So he hasn't responded. But I swear, if he says anything to me about this at the party... heads will roll.

Wait, you guys need to help me come up with a comeback, in case he does say something. Not the things I'd want to say to him, but things I actually could. Things that would be witty, appropos, humourous, but a little biting.

How 'bout it?

How about, simply, "I am not interested in having this discussion with you."

Read my post above, speck.

Our office usually has a New Year's party. Everyone likes New Years, even if they personally celebrate a different New Years Day.

In fact, now that I think about it, every religion DOES have a different start of a New Year. I think the Christians' starts at Easter.

(Does anyone know? I'm supposed to know this.)

off topic: my mom had a friend who always asked if he needed to bring his own fish to Christian events. She assured him fish would be provided.

I'll point to this again: fuck christmas.

I think your response was just fine, Specklet. Cliff needed a short bop on the nose to put him in his place, like a naughty puppy.


(To borrow a tradition from that other site: MetaChat: Fish will be provided.)

By the way, Specklet, I want you to know that when I first read your post I thought it said "avuncular tachycardia" and I thought, what a pleasant way to go.

I like Doohickie's recommendation.

"avuncular tachycardia"

I TOTALLY DID TOO!

Wait, you guys need to help me come up with a comeback, in case he does say something.

How about, "It's clear that you are incapable of being excruciatingly Politically Correct, therefore you are not welcome at our all inclusive secular celebration of smugness?"

Or, "As you know we bend over backwards to ensure that all religions are made to feel welcome. Usually. The trouble is you're clearly Christian, and we're allowed an exemption for those?"

Or, "Look buddy, if you tag along, I'll just have to follow you around making sure that you don't say the C word, so why don't you make it easy on everybody, and stay home polishing your plastic Jesus statue?"

Veedubya, can I just point out that you're being an ass?

Specklet wasn't being anti-christian. She wasn't being anti-anything, except anti-coworker-who-unnecessarily-baits-and-flogs-the-messenger.

Get off your high horse. The oxygen up there appears to be dangerously thin.

The funny thing is that most of the people veedubya has a beef with are Christians, being Christian towards non-Christians.

I hate christmas...it is NOT a religious holiday anymore, unless you worship capitalism...

That said...Jesus wasn't even fucking born in the winter time...he was born in april...but those wisest of the wise decided to place christian holidays near pagan holidays to offset the traditions...so december 25 it is...

Me, i'm celebrating Saturnalia and Festivus this year, but my mom will still give me presents from Santa, because she loves me...

Saturnalia and Festivus

Damnèd Romans! Let's put the Yule back in Yule, people!

Veedubya, can I just point out that you're being an ass?

Can I answer that? Because as far as I'm concerned you most certainly can.

Tell him there's no room at the party. But if Jesus really can't wait, try the parking garage. But watch out for the three wise-ass smokers. I don't think that's incense they're burning.

Tell him there's no room at the party. But if Jesus really can't wait, try the parking garage. But watch out for the three wise-ass smokers. I don't think that's incense they're burning.

Nope, it's frankencense and myrrh.

(just playing off the manger story you're setting up)

But... but... frankencense and myrrh are incense ingredients!

had a friend who always asked if he needed to bring his own fish to Christian events.

was it quonsar? you know, the fish in the pants thing and all that?

Fish? Just fish and no loaves?

WHAT ABOUT THE LOAVES?

OH AND:

Yes but what caused it to be a holiday season? It is the Thanlksgiving and Christmas Season. Both celebrating National Holoidays based upon Christian events,

First off, Cliff. Going to have to disagree with you on your spellings of "Thanksgiving" and "Holidays."

Second off, when did Christ have the first Thanksgiving in which half of the disciples played Indian and the other half played Pilgrim and he proclaimed "This turkey is my body" because really, I'd like to know.

veedubya, if you feel comfortable with agreeing with bill O'Riley's crazy ranting good for you, I guess.

And secondly there are other holidays at the end of the year that you might want to celebrate. Christmas isn't the only one. It's perfectly reasonable to have an end-of year party or whatever.

If the party was on Dec 25th, I could see being annoyed, but please. Besides, it wasn't even a Christian holiday to start with.

Veedubya, can I just point out that you're being an ass?

Can I answer that? Because as far as I'm concerned you most certainly can.

You can point out whatever you like. At the very least, I have the opportunity to respond. The thing about what Specklet has done, is that he/she has held a person that they work with up to ridicule by providing a biased account of an email exchange to the echo-chamber here, and the person that you multitude of oh-so-worthies are so self-righteously ridiculing has neither been offered the opportunity to respond, nor been given the benefit of the doubt as to motive.

If Specklet had a gram of honour they would provide the person that they've had mocked on the intarweb with a chance at rebuttal. So, how about it, Specklet? Are you going to show your co-worker this thread and encourage them to explain their side of the argument? It's a simple enough question, are you going to give them the chance to give their version of events, or not?

and that will accomplish what exactly?

It will give us the chance to see both sides of the situation. It will provide balance. Fairness. You know, the thing that the entire justice system of every civilised country in the world is based on.

Of course, if Specklet hasn't been entirely honest...

Fairness? I thought this was the internet. Huh. Must have taken a wrong turn past the couch...

Also, aren't office Christmas parties primarily about getting plastered and making an ass of yourself?

veedubya, I think you're mistaking a supportive circle of online friends with the Nuremberg Court.

People in Metachat have every right to complain about their petty grievances and to request/receive support from other users.

It's pretty much why a lot of us come here.

Thank you to mudpuppie for cogently and concisely summing up the difference between the cyan and the blue.

"As you know we bend over backwards to ensure that all religions are made to feel welcome. Usually. The trouble is you're clearly Christian, and we're allowed an exemption for those?"

Bullfuckingshit. No one ever has ever bent over anyway to make me feel welcome as a Jew. Nowhere, nohow, never--and especially not lately in the US. I betcha no one's ever bent over for Hindus either. We don't get national holidays--you do. We don't get time off from school on our holiest days--you do. Shut up already.

mudpuppie, I get that. Absolutely.

But, can't someone disagree in this place without fear of being nailed to the mast? Specklet expressed exasperation at somebody that she worked with. I expressed exasperation at his/her point of view. In the real world, where people meet face to face, it would have been the start of an in interesting argument. Here, because this place is rapidly inheriting MeFi's lefty-or-righty attitude, I'm the subject of a pile-on.

Sometimes friends just don't say, "You're right." Instead, real friends say, "Maybe, they're also right."

I hate christmas...it is NOT a religious holiday anymore, unless you worship capitalism...

That said...Jesus wasn't even fucking born in the winter time...he was born in april...but those wisest of the wise decided to place christian holidays near pagan holidays to offset the traditions...so december 25 it is...

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR POINT THIS OUT.

You're perfectly entitled to express exasperation or disagreement, veedubya, and I don't think anyone is disputing that.

The way you did it, though, was not only ungraceful and inelegant, it was mean-spirited and prickish.

Reread Specklet's original post:

I'm kind of hoping he doesn't respond, as I won't be able to carry on a civil conversation. I already think my last email to him was pushing the boundaries of civility in regards to a co-worker (what do you think?), but my god, what a dick to shove it in my face like that! Gah!

She was expressing frustration and asking for feedback.

The thread then turned into a highly charged religious discussion with strong feelings on both sides. None of that strong religious fervor came from Specklet herself (save for her fantasy about hitting her coworker in the head with a pool cue, which is only sort of religious).

Yes, you had/have every right to participate in the discussion. But your ire was misdirected (and, for my tastes, a bit overheated). You directed your response to Specklet by quoting her, when she had long since bowed out of the discussion. You then proceeded to baselessly accused her -- whom you don't know, by the way -- of moral and intellectual dishonesty.

And let's not forget -- she was only looking for support and advice. Not agreement. She wasn't forcing any dogma down your throat.

It's not my place to ask for it, but I think you owe her an apology.

I also think that if you look closely, you'll find that there are plenty of people here who are willing -- itching, even -- to have the debate with you.

But please, take it to another thread so that those of us who wish to can avoid it.

As an atheist, I like to celebrate the end of the year with a celebration I call Xmas. It's great. My atheist friends and I have co-opted a previously religious celebration called christmas or yule or some such, and subverted it to our own ends. It's an atheist celebration now, but what's great is the heathen masses still celebrate it because I cleverly placed it at the same time as their ancient day of worship. Little do they realise that we've already weened them off going to church and thinking of the joy of their weird god's birth and instead they make grand gestures of capitalistic wealth, get mighty drunk on television advertised drinks and watch comedy shows which wouldn't normally be given air-time.

So, hands off you non athiest types. This is my celebration day, and this "holiday" nonsense is insulting to my moral code.

The Oak King is born. 'tis truly a time for celebrating.

I'm looking at my official "Things to be Concerned About as an Atheist" list and mmmmm....mm....nope, wishing someone a merry christmas isn't on it. And it's a long list.

Can't we all just get along and tolerate the intolerant? Yes, "these people" are being thin skinned, insensitive, and self-righteous but are they actually doing and real harm to anyone but themselves?

Say, you don't dig xmas/christmas/Christ's Mass - but how is the insistence that a particular social gathering is to celebrate xmas/christmas/Christ's Mass hurting those who don't believe in it?

At worst, the person who insists will scorned - either openly or privately and at best, the person who insists will be humbled by consensus if they insist on making their feelings public.

Yes, there's the imperetive to banish ignorance but "against stupidity, even the gods themselves struggle in vain."

Yes, "these people" are being thin skinned, insensitive, and self-righteous but are they actually doing and real harm to anyone but themselves?


Yes, they are doing real harm--some are blaming us Jews. I'll cite if you need.

I know I blame the Jews. If it wasn't for your so-called "King," we wouldn't even have Christmas to fight about. We'd all be roasting goats, drinking ale, and deflowering virgins at the company party! Nice going!