MetaChat - War on Brats

They should ban all children within 20 feet of a smoker. (Washington State joke.)

Q: Do you like children, Mr. Fields?

A#1: I do if they are properly cooked.

A#2: I like children... girl children, about eighteen or twenty.

posted by warbaby 23 November | 00:21

Good for them. I was told that motherhood would increase my patience with children. It hasn't. I still can't stand bratty kids running everywhere. And when my own kid acts like that (which she certainly does) she gets silently hoisted over my shoulder and taken out. No reason for everyone to suffer.

posted by jrossi4r 23 November | 00:29

This is like that thread on AskMe where the parents got miffed because they were asked to manage their child (who got out of hand and stepped on a fresh art painting). Being a parent is not a ticket to excuse yourself from civilization.

posted by matildaben 23 November | 00:37

It's true, these people mean business; I took Pretty_Generic and lazy_ville for lunch there one day, and they kicked me right out.

posted by taz 23 November | 00:43

When I was at the Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago, I nearly beat a handful of children for the way that they were treating the exhibits. I got a bored look of confusion from the adults, who were more interested in chatting each other up than dealing with their kids trying to fret the metal of the submarine exhibit. I'm sympathetic to the complaints of parents, and that they just want some time to themselves etc. On the other hand, I don't particularly feel like indulging them because they made the choice to be parents. Taking care of kids is work and often sucks. SURPRISE! That's no reason to let them be barbarians in public.

posted by klangklangston 23 November | 00:45

This makes me want to go to that restaurant, just for that reason. Good for them. : )

posted by sisterhavana 23 November | 00:45

This was story number one in Chicago a week-and-a-half ago. It was kind of like a MetaTalk shitstorm, only live. See here for more details.

posted by me3dia 23 November | 00:48

I'm so with you, jrossi4r. My son is pretty well-behaved and I probably have overly high expectations of him because I still get annoyed by kids running amok in places where that just isn't appropriate -- such as restaurants. If I want to let my kids run around and scream while I eat, I stay home. I respect non-parents' right to a quiet coffee in a cafe without my offspring launching themselves under tables and into walls.

In another anecdote, I was at the San Francisco Zoo one day (while still child-free) and was thoroughly disgusted at a group of eight-year-old kids taunting the chimps, while their parents and/or teachers stood by smiling vacantly.

posted by tracicle 23 November | 00:53

tracicle, it never occurred to me until this moment that the throwing of feces might be an act of sublime eloquence on the part of the chimps.

posted by George_Spiggott 23 November | 01:42

I love kids. But when I waited tables (for about 5 years or so) I worked mostly in fine dining and so there weren't kids. But the ones I got, I hated.

And the thing is, my grandparents—who had money—and my grandmother—who hated to cook—took me out to eat with them from when I was a small child. And I freakin' knew how to behave! It's not the kids, it's the parents.

This reminds me of something. So, one night back around 1994 I went out to dinner with my girlfriend, a astro grad student at the time, and another friend, a atmo grad student. And my girlfriend was older, like me, about 28. The other guy was, 22 I guess. So, we're sitting there looking at the menu, and both of them are having some trouble figuring out the difference between steaks. The GF asked, "What a 'filet mignon'?" The friend said, "Yeah, what is that?" This blew my friggin mind. Who doesn't know what a filet mignon is?? In retrospect, I'm still amazed.

posted by kmellis 23 November | 02:56

What's That? Sadly, the education of the youth of amerika is declining in more than one way. The other day I was at a restaurant with some friends...

posted by Wolfdog 23 November | 06:46

Nothing scolds a parent like when I scold their child publicly. Hey, it takes a village, right? I'm helping.

posted by Eideteker 23 November | 07:13

kmellis, my upbringing ws similar to yours -- I can set the table with up to ten individual pieces of silverware with virtually no thought - but I'm not sure that I know what a Filet Mignon is other than "A Really Good Steak". (I've eaten them, I know what they look like and taste like.) I mean, were they asking "is it meat" or were they asking "what part of the cow does the FM come from"?

*shrug* I'd say that its partly economic (I'm not that old, but for the parents of many of my age-peers a fancy meal out with a steak was still a big treat), except that my SO, who was raised decidedly American Lower-Middle Class suprised the heck out of me when we were first dating by understanding what the fingerbowl was and using it without a fuss. He's a keeper.

(Wait - was I supposed to talk about how annoying bratty kids run amock can be? I think I can rummage up a story about that...)

posted by anastasiav 23 November | 08:50

Parents politely boycott restaurant that insulted them. Somehow, this is controversial.

posted by danostuporstar 23 November | 09:20

I say kudos for that restaurant. Nothing aggravates me more than screaming misbehaving brats whose parents aren't even making the bare minimum effort to restrain them.

When I was raising my three (who were born bumper-to-bumper) I decided early on that my kids were NOT going to be a pain in the butt to the adults around them. So, they weren't. It wasn't that hard. When we were out, I actually had people stop by our table to compliment their behavior!

And danosuperstar, my heart does NOT bleed for those insulted parents. I would hope it would be a wake-up call.

When I was a child, parents expected their children to behave. I think a lot of parents today could learn from that.

posted by bunnyfire 23 November | 09:54

I can't change the situation in Iraq; I can't change the situation in New Orleans," he said. "But I can change this little corner of the world.

Yes, comparing rowdy children to events which have killed thousands is very reasonable.

All I'm saying is the parents have been made to feel unwelcome at this cafe...why is everybody bitchin' that they no longer want eat there?

posted by danostuporstar 23 November | 10:09

why is everybody bitchin' that they no longer want eat there?
Nobody seems to be doing that. Who's doing that?

posted by Wolfdog 23 November | 10:14

Maybe nobody. I thought that was the "controversy".

posted by danostuporstar 23 November | 10:16

From the article, something a parent said: "kids scream and there is nothing you can do about it. What are we supposed to do, not enjoy ourselves at a cafe?"

That annoys me to no end. YES, YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO NOT ENJOY YOURSELVES AT A CAFE. Find someone to watch your kids, moron. Nothing makes me want to leave a place faster than listening to some brat screaming. I definitely side with the non-parents on this one - take your brat outside until it calms down, or go home and let me sit here and enjoy myself in peace. Seriously, when I go out, I don't bring things with me that make offensive, loud, distracting noises, and I don't expect you to, either.

(I taught my kids how to behave in public, and and on the rare occasions that they acted up, I took them home, so everyone else wasn't subjected to their brattiness. It's called consideration.)

posted by iconomy 23 November | 10:17

Oh, and also: "kids scream and there is nothing you can do about it" is total bullshit -just a convenient excuse for someone too lazy to parent.

posted by iconomy 23 November | 10:18

"I love people who don't have children who tell you how to parent," said Alison Miller, 35, a psychologist, corporate coach and mother of two.

One of my favorite ad hominem fallacies, that.

posted by box 23 November | 10:34

You left out the beginning of her quote: "I think that the mothers who allow their kids to run around and scream, that's wrong"

Even well-behaved kids can be loud at times. Of course, the noise should corrected as soon as possible, but it seems like these parents feel threatened the very moment an outburst starts, or even the moment they walk in the door. That's kinda uncool for a public place.

posted by danostuporstar 23 November | 10:36

I mean, were they asking "is it meat" or were they asking "what part of the cow does the FM come from"?

They claimed to have no idea at all other than guessing from context it was a steak. Said they'd never heard of it before. And neither is the practical joking type.

posted by kmellis 23 November | 10:37

but it seems like these parents feel threatened the very moment an outburst starts, or even the moment they walk in the door.

Yep, I will agree with that. It's almost like there's an unspoken agreement amongst all the adults without small kids that children aren't welcome there. I'll bet anything they roll their eyes or silently groan when they see kids come through the door. I feel you should give them a chance, but once they start misbehaving, please get them the eff out of my life.

posted by iconomy 23 November | 10:49

That looked to me like a completely different quote, Dano, but as long as you're quoting Miller, please include:

[K]ids scream and there is nothing you can do about it.

That doesn't exactly fill me with confidence.

And is a restaurant really a public place?

The newspaper writer seems eager to characterize the situation as a clash between childless and child-centered (nice euphemism) people, but many of the quotes seem to belie that reading.

This situation, and the reactions to it, raises a lot of interesting questions.

posted by box 23 November | 10:54

"I love people who don't have children who tell you how to parent," said Alison Miller, 35, a psychologist, corporate coach and mother of two.

So she has no methods to deal with her own screaming child but she expects to get paid for telling people how to cope with other people? Nice advertising lady.

posted by arse_hat 23 November | 11:46

it never occurred to me until this moment that the throwing of feces might be an act of sublime eloquence on the part of the chimps

It's also the reason we don't take grandpa to the Red Lobster anymore.

posted by gigawhat? 23 November | 12:13

And when my own kid acts like that (which she certainly does) she gets silently hoisted over my shoulder and taken out.

Thank you. You are a good member of society.

posted by PinkStainlessTail 23 November | 13:18

"I love people who don't have children who tell you how to parent,"

I love people who don't own a restaraunt telling people how to run their restaraunt!

posted by euchrecthulhu 23 November | 13:45

touche. And I for one welcome our new cardshark overlord.

posted by danostuporstar 23 November | 13:59

The link gives me a 404 error message. What's wrong with me?

posted by Specklet 23 November | 14:12

Nothing wrong with you, Specklet. Fuckin kids kicked the plug out of the server.

posted by arse_hat 23 November | 14:18

When I see poorly behaved kids uncorrected, I reason that their parents just aren't good parents. And I figure they got that way because their own parents weren't very good.

So I pity them for their poor upbringing, and I reason, from their lack of skill at parenting, that they are irresponsible and generally not to be trusted, certainly not given authority over others, and probably not listened to for advice. I mean, who would have a child they couldn't raise?

That's the impression misbehaving children give me. It's not unreasonable for me to think their parents are at the very least not worth my time.

People with kids teach them to behave in part because that kid's like your ambassador -- she tells the world all about you with her behavior in public. So if the kid is a holy terror, her mom must be a fucking bitch.

posted by Hugh Janus 23 November | 15:02

23 November 2005