MetaChat - Does love level all ranks?

I'd love it if it was. Imagine me, able to climb the lofty social heights to lower middle class. I could go to dinner parties and read the Guardian. Unfortunatly, I know my place.

posted by seanyboy 20 September | 10:45

My God, old bean, are you mad? I wouldn't be seen dead stepping out with a filly from the lower middle classes. My reputation would be in shreds. I'd probably be drummed out of the club.

Now stop talking tommy-rot, and return us to our regularly scheduled entertainment.

posted by veedubya 20 September | 10:56

*loves seanyboy, and his lower-than-a-worm's-belly class*

Sure... why not? Though I may be prejudiced. I'm lower middle class, and never been anything higher than middle-middle class (I think), if we're talking income.

posted by taz 20 September | 10:58

Requited love can conquer all barriers. Unrequited love, well, isn't that humanity's greatest/favorite/saddest story?

I was born on the other side of town
Everybody over there just puts me down
I never thought about it much, ‘til the first time I saw you
Uh-oh, what's a poor boy gonna do

It's bad enough to love you from afar
Me down here and you up where you are
If you hadn't given me that look, that's all it took it's true
U-oh, what's a poor boy gonna do

Baby what's a poor boy got, not a heck of a lot
Just a heart that's true
One thing he sure doesn't need is a heart that bleeds
And these lovesick blues

I know a poor boy can't go far
Baby, maybe someday drive your car
I can look in my rearview, into those eyes of blue
Uh-oh what's a poor boy gonna do

-- Steve Earle

posted by Hugh Janus 20 September | 11:01

There are still classists left? Didn't we grind them into a fine dust for gritting the walk on snowy days?

posted by loquacious 20 September | 11:04

Even if the object of your affections occupies a station in the lower middle class?

keep striving upward, and some day you'll achieve her lofty level.

posted by quonsar 20 September | 11:06

Not sure about *class*, but it may be that compassion is the platform upon which all people can meet.

Over the course of more than forty years, the Dalai Lama has witnessed the destruction of hundreds of temples in his country, the torture and death of many thousands of his people, and the attempt to wipe out Tibetan culture and replace it with Han Chinese culture. The United Nations has called it genocide. In all of this, as far as I am aware, he has never once referred to China as the enemy. He has consistently regarded the officials, soldiers, and citizens of the People's Republic of China as suffering sentient beings searching, like all sentient beings, for happiness. He has counseled his compatriots to do the same, and repeatedly asked them to practice non-violent resistance and not to resort to vengeance.
He has said that there are no absolutes in Buddhism but if there were to be an absolute it would be compassion, and he has called this 'the pillar of world peace.'

posted by mcgraw 20 September | 11:28

See? There's a lower middle class guy I could really love.

posted by taz 20 September | 11:32

Also, the Dalai Lama said: ≡ Click to see image ≡

posted by mcgraw 20 September | 11:45

Well, we all know that,

"Love is not love that alteration finds:
Oh no! it is an ever-fixed mark,
That looks on tempests and is never shaken,"

but I'm not sure that answers your question.

I'm no expert, but it seems to me that love which is love does indeed level rank, but that rank may be an obstacle to love that cannot always be leveled.

(Also, and from a social science perspective, some of the most convincing research on people who get divorced suggests that contempt for your partner is probably the single biggest predictive measure of impending break-up. Unequal rank may contribute to contempt.)

(Also, from my own perspective, a whole lot depends on what it is that is most important to the lover. Rank may be indicative of something very imortant, say someone with a PhD who values education may find that that rank is not at all leveled even when they fall in love with someone with a GED.)

So, in summary, no, it is not my official position that love levels rank, but I'm willing to entertain the idea.

Love,OmieWise

posted by omiewise 20 September | 11:50

and though he never committed it to paper, he has at times thought:
≡ Click to see image ≡ ≡ Click to see image ≡≡ Click to see image ≡

posted by mcgraw 20 September | 11:57

loquacious, you've been out of SF for far too long. mcgraw: ow, my eyes.

Are we talking love in the idealistic sense or love as a social contract? They're not necessarily mutually exclusive, but certainly distinct.

posted by Frisbee Girl 20 September | 12:07

Lust often does, love sometimes.

I think the class spoken of here is edumacation isn't it? I really don't think the money thing matters toooo much.

Attraction happens irrespective of interests/reading habits but connection for a longer period usually requires a bit more crossover of the minds.

But then again, James Joyce's (eventual) wife, Nora, met him on a very different intellectual plane than that in which his 'silly books' (to her) were crafted.

My official position is that I want to see her picture first. During the following morning I'll think about it some more. Joking aside, it is a case of time will tell imho.
Gah! It's like swimming in honey getting this page to preview. Just me?

posted by peacay 20 September | 12:08

Even edumacation... I don't know. I've met PhDs whom I've sneered at. (Very many, actually.) So it's not money or family or employment... or formal education for me. But, yes... it is definitely intelligence. I could love someone carnally, or just love them, but for partner-love, for true romantic soul love, I guess native intelligence is my class-thing.

... but also compassion. And humor.

So, actually - no. I give up. I just have my things that mean something -or everything- to me... But I can't really make them line up with any classification.

posted by taz 20 September | 12:54

But what if she's a humble Captain's daughter, and he's the Ruler of the Queen's Navee?

(But what if the ~~humble~~ gallant Captain is related to a Peer? And the First Lord of the Admiralty got his start as an office boy to an Attorney's firm, where he cleaned the windows and he swept the floor, and he polished up the handle of the big front door? And the lady in questions is in love with a tar who ploughs the water? Oh, never mind the why and wherefore.)

But it's a strange anomaly, that the daughter of a man who hails from the quarter-deck may not love another who lays out on the fore-yard arm.

posted by orthogonality 20 September | 12:58

Well, that's really another sort of question isn't it? Personally, I will always love a man who lays out on the fore-yard arm.

But that's just me.

posted by taz 20 September | 13:03

Class lines are a lot harder to cross than race, I think. As someone said above, love may level class once it exists, but class can keep love from ever existing.

I grew up in a milieu that tended towards the upper middle and upper classes. My family is what a friend of mine calls working class intelligentsia, what I would say is lower middle to middle class--you know, librarians, professors at small colleges, etc.--but of the sort where education is at the core of one's identity, where disposable income goes for good schools, good enrichment, as oppsed to vacations, boats, etc. (I hope that makes sense.)

Anyway, I spent my life surrounded by kids in a different class, sharing many of the same experiences, yet when it came to love, I have only fallen in love with people from that same precise class. Why? It could be that I'm terribly prejudiced, but I don't think so. Rather, that frisson of recognition in a stranger that is the fuel of love is more likely to happen with someone with ehom you have lots in common. And class so thoroughly determines your experiences and priorities.

posted by dame 20 September | 13:24

I think I get what orthogonality is saying if only because I see so much of it around me in the work that I do. I don't disparage it as I think that people do find a great deal of comfort and support in that kind of structure. I also think that many people associate familiarity and comfort with love. What is at the base of those fundamental points seems to be what helps determine the weight that classicism has in the operative equation. Ultimately, what I've seen is that, in addition to experience, the core bundle of motivations in one's identity seems to play the largest role.

Hailing from dubious and disparate rank and breeding, I'm most certainly in Taz's court (pun intended): intelligence, compassion and humor make up the surefire triple threat.

posted by Frisbee Girl 20 September | 13:54

this morning that borderline chick i mentioned favored me with a huge, delicious smile partway through the AA meeting.

posted by quonsar 20 September | 14:14

q, everyone should be showering you with huge, delicious smiles.

posted by Frisbee Girl 20 September | 14:28

≡ Click to see image ≡

posted by mcgraw 20 September | 14:38

I suppose that explains why irradiation never really took off, eh?

posted by Frisbee Girl 20 September | 14:42

Lovers of the world unite

posted by matteo 20 September | 14:44

I've dated the homeless while homeless, I'ved lived with millionaires and everything in between...

To me love knows no boundaries...The nose knows.

posted by Schyler523 20 September | 15:33

≡ Click to see image ≡

posted by Schyler523 20 September | 15:36

≡ Click to see image ≡

posted by Hugh Janus 20 September | 15:39

(that's just me answering opportunity's knock, not a personal jab at you, Schyler523)

posted by Hugh Janus 20 September | 15:50

Not a 100% sure what my position is, but lean towards love leveling all ranks when you have two strong hearts and a whole lot of personality.

I guess in life you don't always choose who you are attracted to or fall in love with. Money might bring a more comfortable life, but I place greater importance on education and creativity.

posted by Chimp 20 September | 16:01

I've dated the homeless while homeless, I'ved lived with millionaires and everything in between...

Good times and bum times,
I’ve seen them all and, my dear,
I’m still here.

Plush velvet sometimes,
Sometimes just pretzels and beer,
But I’m here.

. . . .

I’ve slept in shanties,
Guest of the W.P.A.,
But I’m here.

. . . .

posted by orthogonality 20 September | 17:25

None of this applies if you and a co-worker are in love yet don't share equal standing within the organization.

Second compassion as being the true leveler. Unless you're in an army of compassion ;-)

posted by WolfDaddy 20 September | 17:38

None of this applies if you and a co-worker are in love yet don't share equal standing within the organization.
Even if you fall in love with her while interviewing her for a job where you will be her supervisor, then make sure that she gets the job instead of the leggy-but-braindead bimbo that made eyes at your boss who was also interviewing? Are you sure?

posted by dg 20 September | 18:00

With your carefully designed topless swimsuit
You get an even suntan, on your back and on your legs
When the snow falls you're found in St. Moritz
With the others of the jet-set
And you sip your Napoleon Brandy
But you never get your lips wet

posted by seanyboy 20 September | 18:12

Okay, dg, fine you win. :-P

posted by WolfDaddy 20 September | 18:55

We read that sonnet at our wedding, omiewise. We sort of crossed class lines in that he was the cool, jock who used to bully me, the artsy freak in high school. Very John Hughes.

posted by jrossi4r 20 September | 23:51

just spotted this at craigslist...

RANT: upwardly mobile

Reply to: anon-xxxxxxxx@craigslist.org
Date: 2005-09-23, 7:54PM CDT

I heard some track off a Dr. Dre CD that posed a great question:

whatever happened to fallin in love with a [man] with a bus pass, just cuz you love the [man]"

I have a feeling the beatles were lying when they said love is all you need.

true dat.

posted by Wedge 24 September | 02:46

20 September 2005