No, it's entering the realm of Coulter Cunture.

*master of the chiasmus*

I think it ceased to be counter-culture a few years ago.

" it's entering the realm of Coulter Cunture."
That big skinny burning thing really looks like Coulter!

People still light their farts?

what do you get for that? are drugs included or something?

About as counter culture as bi, polyamorous fire spinners in ass-less chaps, wookie boots and Mad Max goggles.

" bi, polyamorous fire spinners in ass-less chaps, wookie boots and Mad Max goggles."
It may not be counter-culture but it will make the mall a nicer place.

You may retract that statement once you see who is in the actual get-ups. And somehow poly on the playa rarely seems to translate evenly in the real world. On the other hand, given the extraordinary altered states most burners recount, I suppose that may not matter much.

It's still counter culture, but yes, it has become quite dogmatic and far too damn big for it's own good.

The seed becomes ripe and hopefully soon will burst fully, spreading it's own virus and mutations, collapsing beneath the weight of it's own dogmas and heinous over-self-reflection.

Seriously, if you haven't been to Burning Man and you're considering going, the ticket price is the least of your worries. It'll be the smallest expense. Even if you don't do a half-assed theme camp and/or costume and/or artwork.

And there's a fuckton of mind-blowing art that shows up out there. Stuff you'll never see in any gallery or museum that totally blows most art culture out of the water, and I'm not talking about cars with lots of plastic trinkets glued randomly all over them.

Getting there will probably cost more. Providing food, water, shelter, sunscreen, moisturizer, beer, and any other party favors will cost more. The average low end bill for attending BM for the whole week runs about $1.5k USD, if not more. That cost goes down a little if you reuse gear from last year, but skyrockets as soon as you start actually participating.

People spend more on Mardi Gras, though, just to go see some drunk tits and drink cheap beer.

The ticket price for Burning Man pays for: The BLM special use permits, "Art grants" to help real artists actually make it to Burning Man, safety gear, materials (There's tons and tons of materials that go into making BM happen, above and beyond the actual edifice of "the man"), operating costs, beer for various staff including security (Black Rock Rangers) and construction monkeys, cheaper tickets for those in hardship (See also: Art grants), and more, including programs dedicated to establishing-promoting gift culture and other social change.

Again, if your main complaint is the ticket price, please just don't go. You'll probably end up out there with a gallon jug of water, a bag of trailmix and a K-Mart pup tent, and not only will you wonder why you went, you'll be a burden on the safety staff.

There's way more important thing worthy of bitching about about Burning Man than just the ticket price.

If you want to try the Burning Man experience on a smaller scale google "Regional Burn" or check out the regional burn section on the main Burning Man site. There's less people, it's less of a commitment, it costs less. The tradeoff is that most of the time the art isn't as grandiose, but the upside is that generally there's less drunken fratboys who came there just for the naked chicks and free beer, and a better vibe.

Though, after reading the article, I would be more than happy to simply call it "culture", and have it not be counter-culture. The goals and intent of Burning Man and movements like it, not excluding The Summer of Love, The Situationists and many, many others isn't counter-culture, it's culture. Real culture. Not corporate culture.

An obsession with being 'counter' or 'anti' or constantly in a mode of detournement just for the sake of it isn't always healthy or constructive.

And to label these very genuine and real and earnest things as "counter culture" is an exersize in either creating or accepting the linguistic framing as the oppressively invested and entrenched establishment and power base would have it.

One of the things that I love about real 'acid house', neo-pagan, rave and Burning Man culture is that these cultures were committed to positive, creative, non-destructive direct action, enjoying life, and cultural, spiritual and social enrichment, with a near complete (and quite healthy) disregard for money, greed, personal material gain or any otherwise "what's in it for me?" attitudes.

So, what's in it for me? Beauty. Art. Life. Truth. Freedom. Expression. Exploration. Healthier culture all around me, and a healthier and happier me.

Love is the law; but do as thou wilt.

I'll be going to the Burning Car festival on my local council estate.

Burning man (image warning)

I should probably sit this out...

It's not the price so much as it just seems that the burning man has become just another corporate culture event. I may be wrong. I often am.

When I read the word "fuckton," I wonder if it's the same Fuckton my high school football team, the Shitsville Lizards, used to paste every Homecoming.

A fuckton is three-fiftieths of a stupillion.

loquacious, as ever, a most eloquent response. My response to BM, at this point, is a mix of bemusement, frustration and eye-rolling irritation. I would say that a full 90% of my friends are burners. Many from "back-in-the-day" and a few who participated in the Baker Beach days. The concept has been explained to me a gazillion times and it seems like a truly grand idea. And as great ideas are wont to do, it continues to grow and evolve and draw people with great passion and vision to the process.

The proselytizing and dogmatism are annoying, and the whole elistist/superiority thing is an aspect of human nature that is hard to escape in any social circle. But I do love the idea of art and community bouyed by open, cooperation and trust; and pinnacle experiences are a part of life's joys.

What causes me the most amount of frustration and what has given me the most reason for pause when considering the attendance of BM for the past two summers has been working BM benefit events. As a rule, I have never interacted with a more rudely demanding, disrespectful, self-entitled, inconsiderate group of people on a consistent basis. It's an incredible disappointment, really.

Each time it comes to helping out or working one of these gigs, I think to myself that I must have been over-reacting or maybe tired and cranky the previous time, then give myself a little pep talk. Within hours, I'm, once again, shaking my head in disbelief and asking myself why on God's green earth I would want to spend a week in the middle of the desert with these jerks.

I know that sounds harsh, but to be so eager to accept the gift of my time and energy and yet become outright hostile and deride me as a perpetrator of fascist consumerism when they are asked to pay for goods and services (that are for the raw materials or the actual funding of their benefit, no less); endanger my livelihood by blatant disregard of the law; endanger my physical person through acts of sheer stupidity, all the while preaching playa love and the perfection of the barter economy is utter crap. Not to mention tired and hypocritical.

If that's playa love, I think I'm better off without it. If burners think that they should be exempt of the basic social contracts that go along with life in downtown SF simply because things are 'as such' on the playa, I most respectfully decline the invitation to join the crowd. Understand that I don't take these actions as personal affronts, I merely would prefer to distance myself from that mindset.

I also realize that the few hundred that I've met under these circumstances don't constitute the whole of the group and it makes me glad to hear that people still find inspiration in the event. However, these experiences have made a strong enough impression that most positive curiosity about and incentive to take part in BM are gone.

In hindsight, this doesn't really address arse_hat's question as to whether BM is corporate or counter-culture, but I wanted to respond to loquacious' inside perspective. Not that it justifies my earlier mocking posts. ;)

Frisbee Girl is my new hero. Let's go get mullets together.

I've never been to Burning Man (I'm an East Coast girl, all the way, also broke) but I've watched it longingly from afar and I'm sad that it seems like it's following the same trajectory of the late and lamented Bread and Puppet Domestic Resurrection Circus in Vermont, which I did attend for years. Brilliant amazing art, wonderful people, all peace/love/campout harmony: it was all good until somebody died.

The short version of what happened to Bread & Puppet, and what would appear to be happening to Burning Man: got too big and the assholes showed up in droves.

The long version is that it may be impossible to sustain an original vision. The original vision of any of these all-freak art happening festival events assumes that there's a sort of social contract, an honor among freaks thing going on. That the kind of people who will be drawn to such an event are capable of policing themselves and that they will be cool and helpful and it will all go okay. And, for the first few years, that's usually pretty much true. But then, the event gets bigger and bigger, until with B&P, it got to the point where the parking lot show was bigger than the Circus, and it seemed like half the tweaker assholes camped out below didn't even know that there was a performance going on up the hill.

It's a tipping point of sorts: the day when the people who were originally drawn to the vision are outnumbered by the people who show up just because "It's cool, man. I heard about it on TV." Those people don't feel any buy in to the original concept, they're just there to party and they feel no responsibility at all. They need policing, which is not what the original organizers ever had in mind, and they can quickly destroy the whole thing.

I don't know what the solution is, or if there even is one. Bread and Puppet now runs mini-circuses on most weekends if you're ever in Glover, VT - it's not the same, but it's still pretty damn good. I wonder if it's just a natural life cycle, if Burning Man is drawing to a close. Events, like everything else, are born, live and then die.

Frisbee Girl, mygothlaundry, thanks for the replies. They express what I felt might be happening to BM better than I could have.

when it shows up in the mass media, it stops being counterculture ... not because of anything it is or wants to be, but just because the exposure inevitably turns it into something else ... that's not necessarily a bad thing

jonmc: mullet love, my friend, mullet love.

mgl: Precisely. Community building and social dynamics are organic processes that, by definition, will experieince growth spurts, stalls, correction, divisions and on. The critical mass point is going to be different for every individual and negotiating that is also a dynamic and organic process of evolution.

I wholly embrace taking art to ever greater levels, getting your freak on and creating platforms for singular and unparalleled experiences while sharing those moments with others. I also think that having a forum where new people can be exposed to the experience is important, if not paramount. I'm passionate about that.

However, these things are, in no way, an excuse for bad behavior and I will call 'bullshit' on it when I see it.

I still think it's just a geekier Spring Break.

Basically, people are going to be idiots no matter what culture they are a part of.

Frisbee Girl, mygothlaundy:

I totally agree with and share those frustrations.

Frankly, I do a lot of bitching about BM to my burner friends myself - and more or less along those lines.

That, and the dogma. (Consider the first few lines of my first response.)

Burning Man - for the most part - ceased to be weird a long time ago.

There's another festival I'm more interested in now, also based in SF. (I'm not going to mention the festival, but seek out the S.P.A.Z. collective or 5lower5hop and if they get to know you they'll hook you up.)

They don't seem to make any pretenses about people not being assholes. It is pretty much honestly about partying, but it's mainly about DIY weird techno music and lots of sound systems. (And I mean weird even in relation to techno. SF has this crazy "freetechno" or "broken techno" scene. Grungy weird-ass, truly dropped-out dirt-eating motherfuckers.)

And an aside about elitism: It seemes like elitism must exist, even if it's an 'actively but selectively inclusive' elitism, for a Temporary Autonomous Zone to exist. The main common facet of all these music/art/hippylove festivals/gatherings we've discussed, the TAZ is the most common thread. Without the TAZ, these things don't exist.

Without some firewalling it's no longer a TAZ and subject to the whims and laws and expectations of the everyday world.