Yeah! He hath sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance!

BAD King George! BAD!!!

Good thought, warbaby.

The twelve colonies: Hooray! We've opted for self rule! We no longer have to pay absurdly high taxes to the His Majesty!

New York: Oh, you mean we get to keep all this money? (aside) Don't let those surcharges fall! We can make a bundle off this!

so, what's with all this "Creator" gibberish?

[whistles, looks at ceiling]

so, what's with all this "Creator" gibberish?

Hey, even the founding fathers had to play to the cheap seats once in a while.

I can only sing it (a la Schoolhouse Rock). : >

That's what you get for misreading directions. Instead of reading it aloud, and then taking it to the picnic, I took it to the picnic, and then read it aloud. I haven't seen so many confused Japanese people in weeks.

The Creator [aka Nature's God] is in there because the founding fathers included a gang of Deists and Unitarians.

These guys would have kicked W's ass until he bled from every orifice.

I must say I'm boggled by the folks who thought my posting this was jingoism on my part. This is why we are fighting the pseudo-fascist bastards. And why we will win.

And why we will win
warbaby: Seriously. I mean come on. You pretty much stood up in the crowded international room that is metachat and started singing your national anthem. It's nice that you're proud of your country, but you shouldn't be suprised at anyones reaction.

Plus. Nobody wins. We just kill each other, steal other peoples natural resources and wax and wane in terms of international power. Three hundred years from now, your ancestors will probably be speaking Chinese and three hundred years after that they'll be muttering along in Danish or something.

Are Amerians more nationalistic than people from other countries?

I wonder what the world stats are for national flags per population and such data?

The only reason I would post some Aussie revered document (gawd, do we have any?) in a place like this would be to hold it up for ridicule.

Mind you, there's a fair number of one-eyed Aussie zealots, particularly when it comes to sport (actually, on any number of subjects I guess). I guess every country has their own.

Just seems like Americans are more pro-American in general than personages from elsewhere - that could just be because we outsiders are more exposed to US media I guess.

Me, I'm a citizen of planet earth but I thought there was a better document anyway to contemplate, were the thoughts of American history & place in the world etc ever to cross my mind around the time of 4th July.

americans aren't more nationalistic
there are just so many more of them with computers
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Just give me a minute while I hug ethylene & peacay.

peacay : >

(all the best Americans are/were deviants anyway)

You know it's funny. I've loved Whitman for years and have merely read snippets from time to time out of my copy of Leaves. I did reread it this last fortnight when I found out about the anniversary and that was the first time I'd heard mention of his alleged or apparent or inferred or (insert *cough* word of choice here) homosexuality.

In some societies of old, the deviants and misfits and mad people were revered for their magical powers.

In which case I assume Walt would be happy being referred to as a deviant!

I think seanyboy is projecting about my values. This is ok, he can do that, but I don't endorse his misunderstanding or his conclusions.

I happen to be a big fan of democracy, equality before the law and all sorts of stuff like that. I live in America and that's where I do my politics.

The 4th is our big national holiday and part of internationalism is celebrating the public goods of each and every country, including this one. We can deal with the public evils the rest of the year.

"My country right or wrong. When right, kept right. When wrong, made right."