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18 December 2008

Ask MeCha: Website developers edition! I'm trying to get a fair quote from a friend who's consulting with my boss...→[More:]

...and she said that as her employee, it's my job to ensure that things go in her favor when it comes to the price. I get that, I really do. However, I also don't want to screw my friend.

Other factors:

* He's in his 20s and it doesn't seem like he's ever written out a proposal or scope in professional-sounding lanugage, which means that I'm also "prettying" up his language so that it looks more professional. (Of course, his attorneys are going to be looking over it when I'm done.)
* All of his other consulting clients are way more laid back than my boss is.
* My boss really wants to keep costs low (don't they all in this economy?).
* He's also being recalcitrant when it comes to the number of changes she's allowed to make on a graphics standpoint, when everybody who has ever worked on design knows that the design is completed ONLY when the client is happy with it, even if it seems to be perfectly okay. He wants that language in the agreement and there is NO WAY IN HELL that my boss is going to agree to only being able to go through X number of proofs.

What he's submitting is a proposal for a website that's based on a WordPress platform with a blog up front (maintained by me), real estate listings both on their own page and on the side bar, links to her social networking profiles and other ways of contacting her. The template and colors would only be changed 4 times a year to coincide with the seasons (is that too much?) and the rest of the back-end work would consist of updating widgets, adding in listings whenever we have new ones, adding downloadable content, etc. (To be continued)

post by: TrishaLynn at: 10:00 | 10 comments

The part I'm trying to get her to understand is that he won't know how long it takes to do a job until he actually does it because we all know that "routine" updates can sometimes fuck over your CMS and you may have to end up rebuilding everything from scratch.

Given these parameters, am I better off asking for an hourly rate or a flat rate per month? I don't want to short-change her if he's not going to be doing a lot in one month but at the same time, if there's a lot of stuff she wants him to do in a certain month, I don't want to short-change him either.

posted by TrishaLynn 18 December | 10:24

The original development should have a flat rate, and I don't think it's unreasonable for him to ask for a limit on design revisions as part of that rate. The contract could set an hourly rate for, say, four months of on-going maintenance after delivery of initial spec. Additional design revisions beyond the original spec could be done at the hourly rate. After initial contract expires (e.g. four months) when everybody has a better idea of how much on-going work is needed, then a new contract could be discussed either continuing the hourly rate or setting up a monthly one. (Installing/testing new wordpress/plugin updates is another ongoing task that will need budgeting.)

posted by danostuporstar 18 December | 10:56

What dano says.

The work tends to expand if people are on retainer/salary; there's a sense of, Well we're paying them anyway, may as well give them some work. I suspect your friend would get screwed working at a monthly rate for someone who's trying to keep costs low.

posted by occhiblu 18 December | 11:08

How do I convey to my boss that the number of hours can really vary when it comes to website maintenance?

posted by TrishaLynn 18 December | 11:29

He's also being recalcitrant when it comes to the number of changes she's allowed to make on a graphics standpoint, when everybody who has ever worked on design knows that the design is completed ONLY when the client is happy with it, even if it seems to be perfectly okay.

Actually he's right here. You allow for a certain number of changes in the contract and then charge for extra changes. This is standard practice.

posted by gomichild 18 December | 18:48

Ah... my boss is totally getting away with murder with me, then...

posted by TrishaLynn 18 December | 19:44

Yeah. Usually it's 3-4 changes, then charged after that. While it may seem harsh the point is - if the project brief is solid you shouldn't need that many changes. And if the client does then they either have no clear vision or defined branding (very bad)or they have not chosen a designer who they are esthetically inline with.

Open changes also tends to be a major factor in project delay.

Also from the point of view of the designer you can end up working for 2 bucks an hour unless you state your change policy from the start.

It's a waste of time and resources for both parties essentially not to have a change policy.

My boss really wants to keep costs low

This would send up an immediate red flag for me. If the company can't afford to do what they want properly then they should look at scaling back the project until they can afford to do it right. Redoing everything down the line always ends up more expensive. Saying you want it done cheap upfront is false economy and already setting the tone for a potential project disaster.

posted by gomichild 18 December | 21:34

Also from a branding viewpoint:

The template and colors would only be changed 4 times a year to coincide with the seasons (is that too much?)

This is not such a great idea. Not for a real estate site. Maybe advise to have the header image change to reflect this instead?

Having built a Real Estate site not that long ago I would say that beyond everything else the most important points to consider are:

* searching abilities
* constant updating and new properties
* good photographs of properties
* easy navigation

And that the budget should be focused towards achieving these things first before extra frills like changing themes and so on.

posted by gomichild 18 December | 22:00

Lemme put it to you this way. There's a graphic designer she usually works with and we've been working on a direct mail piece for her since Spring. It was supposed to be the Spring piece. Ever since she really started to focus on it, we have gone through about five different drafts because she's always finding something new to nitpick.

I can totally foresee her doing the same with a website design.

posted by TrishaLynn 19 December | 08:45

I can totally foresee her doing the same with a website design.

Which is why competent designers with good business sense charge extra or hourly for changes.

When I'm doing freelance writing, I always charge X amount for the writing, which includes one round of revisions, and then a (lower) hourly rate for any further revisions or proofreading. Good employers don't balk at this. Bad employers do. I find that it's a way of either weeding out bad employers or at least forcing them to pay me enough to deal with their shit.

(Are you sure you want your friend working for your boss? This sounds like it may be a totally frustrating project for your friend.)

posted by occhiblu 19 December | 11:20

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