"It's not a pain, just a strange dull sadness."

That's something you share with many folks.

"Will there ever be an answer?"

That too, is a common question.

I know that is no real comfort but please know those feelings are not rare. You are not alone.

It sounds like an important book, and I hope that sharing it with others goes ok for you.

It takes a few brave people like yourself to risk sharing a terrible story so that others may learn.


(((loiseau)))

When I was 18 my social skills, judgment and self-esteem were not what they are today. I went through life trying not to upset anyone for fear they wouldn't like me. Even people I knew I didn't like. I didn't even realise I had the right to form my own opinions about things. As a result I would get myself into situations I didn't want to be in, and there would usually be a price to pay to extricate myself safely.

So, yes, I know that conflict of feeling both victim and participant, and, as arse_hat said you're not alone.

All I have to do is read people's online conversations about rape to know that the force of public opinion is working against me here.

All you have to do is read people's online conversations to know that morons are the most vocal contingent online (cf the internet fuckwad theory). Do NOT take what you've seen on the Internet and apply it to the general population, because it's not so.

Also, please know that it can be difficult for someone (*cough*me*cough*) to share one's own writing when it's not nearly so personal or charged. Your feelings are totally and completely normal.

Just think that you sharing your story will let someone else know they are not alone - that someone's been there and survived. I think it's a very important story, and that you are very brave to reveal it. I also think that naysayers be damned, because everyone "knows what they would have done", until they're actually in the same situation. No one really has the right to judge anyone else. Congratulations to yourself for being strong enough to share such a personal tragedy.

Guys, thanks so much. Everything you said here was very much appreciated and truly did help me continue.

I gave my zine to a couple of people I know and sold a couple today, and I did so just trying not to think too much about it. I think both writing it and giving it away helps me somehow. Writing makes me feel better.

As a part of my interest in de-stigmatizing 'yucky' emotions, I hope that someone who reads it understands where I'm coming from and why I want it to be okay and normal to talk about it. It would be amazing if it somehow helped another person who experienced the things I did, or for someone who hasn't experienced that, made them think about the women in their life that may have.

I will try to figure out a format that I can upload so you can read it. (Right now it's in a double-sided page layout so to look at it onscreen it's not in order.)

It wasn't your fault and I'm on your side.

In case you didn't hear me:

IT WASN'T YOUR FAULT AND I'M ON YOUR SIDE.

(((hugs)))

I'd also add this, loiseau. When I got sober nearly 10 years ago I was so crippled with guilt and shame about the things I'd done and allowed to be done to myself. I thought I was the only person who'd ever done those things or felt like that. I'd got so used to cringing when I looked at myself that it was second nature.

There's a saying in AA - "you're only as sick as your secrets". In other words, if you keep it bottled in, it'll fester. But still, despite the AA programme telling me that I had to get this off my chest and tell someone, I still couldn't bring myself to confront those demons.

But the longer I stuck around AA, the more I heard people talk about many of the things I'd done when they shared their stories, some more graphically than others (we're told to share 'in a general way' to the meeting, and save the detail for talks with our sponsor, but some people feel the need to tell their whole story).

It made me realise that I wasn't the worst person in the world, and it allowed me to forgive myself. I remember once in a meeting telling how, when I was in my teens and early 20s, if I didn't have a lift home I'd lie down in the road, so a car would stop for me. Those rides home generally did not wendell. I thought I was the only person who'd done that, but after the meeting four people came up to me and said that they'd done that too, but they thought they were the only ones!

So what I'm saying - far too long-windedly - is that I know I'm lucky to have AA because through it I've learned that I am not alone in my past deeds and the way I felt about them. People who don't have that kind of support network can often feel isolated in their feelings. That's why I love this little corner of the web, it's in the most part a safe haven for people to share their lives with friends.

You guys rule. Seriously.

It's funny how the things we tell ourselves are so different from what we would tell a friend in the same situation. I often try to put myself at that distance, think of what I'd say if a friend told me my story.

I agreed to stay overnight for logistical reasons and I willingly slept in this guy's bed. For this reason I often feel I am entirely at fault. But if a friend told me this alone, I would say that doesn't give another person any claim on your body. I said no and he did it anyway -- I would tell a friend that ultimately, this is what it comes down to. But when I recall the way it happened, I know I could have done MORE -- I could have said NO more, I could have physically resisted, but I didn't. I was paralyzed. But I know in retrospect I could have stopped the whole thing from happening if I had tried harder. Can you still feel wronged if you didn't do absolutely everything you could to stop it? If you willingly (however naively) entered into that situation? I know I would sincerely tell a friend that she was not to blame, but I still feel I let it happen, which is as good as consent.

And I feel angry at this man (he was 30 to my 18) yet I feel to say the words is to do that horrible thing that men find so heinous -- to falsely accuse someone of rape. I feel however valid my claims might be, there is no excuse for calling a man that.

I know how fucked up this is.

The weird thing is, I ended up in a confusing situation last year with a male friend. The night it happened I insisted at the outset that I wasn't interested in ANYTHING sexual with him. I actually said, "I'm not hanging out with you for that. I'm not here to fool around." I felt very presumptuous saying it, but I did because I wanted no confusion and I didn't feel like fending off any attempts.

I came over to his house at his call at 2am, when he said he was bummed out about some stuff going on in his life and needed to talk. We did sit and talk and drink a few beers. But I was sleepy (I had been in bed when he called) so after a while I laid on his bed while he sat at the desk. Then gradually he came over, started rubbing my back... I let him do that because I guess at that point I felt he had understood my disclaimers.

You can see where this is going... he just kept proceeding and I kept protesting, but I didn't protest enough. I didn't get up and leave -- though if I had, I'm sure there would have been hurt feelings but no other barrier to walking out. I refused to let him have sex with me, but just let him do what he wanted otherwise because it was too tiring to keep telling someone to stop. I just wanted him to get off as soon as possible so he'd leave me alone and I could go home. And at that point I would have felt guilty leaving him hanging, so instead I was just waiting for him to finish. The whole thing was horrible.

In a way I felt hideously violated by the whole experience, and so glad it was over. This is a guy who would probably, if it came down with it, at least strongly identify with feminist principles, and who would never dream they'd sexually violate someone. That alone just makes me feel like I must have been wrong about what happened. And again I was friends with him after that, though I never spoke one word about it to him, and within a month or two we drifted apart. I'm not sure how much of my deep, inexpressable discomfort had to do with that -- he also got a girlfriend and went into the relationship cave.

I tell you this (with great hesitation) simply because I have nothing to hide at this point anyway, and because it's just what happened. I'm sure women all around us have stories like this; part of trying to tell mine is that I feel they are sadly, utterly ubiquitous.

I can't say I felt as violated by the latter as by the former, maybe just because I'm older now and I feel I should be able to better handle myself in these situations. I shouldn't drink beer and then lay on a guy's bed, and I certainly know better than to let a guy do things to my body just because it's much more work to keep fending off his advances. It sounds positively crazy, yet that's what I did -- so I feel I can only blame myself.

I dunno.

I certainly know better than to let a guy do things to my body just because it's much more work to keep fending off his advances. It sounds positively crazy, yet that's what I did -- so I feel I can only blame myself.

There's an entire society around you with a loooooong history of telling women to let guys do whatever they want to you and a stroooooooong interest in keeping that tradition alive. You were not acting alone; you were not just trying to resist him. You were acting under strong cultural traditions that tell men that they have to "get" sex from women, that tell women we're too physically weak to resist if it comes down to it so it's our job to hysterically police ourselves and all men up until that point, that are built on the idea that women's thoughts and actions are inherently fickle and can't be trusted because we alone exiled humans from the Garden of Eden, and that use guilt and isolation to keep any of us from fighting back against these dysfunctional ideas.

I understand why you blame yourself -- it's often easier to mad at ourselves than at other people or society in general, because we at least feel vaguely in control of ourselves -- but feeling guilt and being guilty are not the same thing.

I always found it mind-boggling that society teaches girls to be nice and polite and submissive and yet all of a sudden blames them if they don't know how to put their foot down when it comes to guys.

The sexual part of my whole last relationship was like what you describe, only it was day in and day out.

Was he a sexual abuser? It got to the point where despite all he did for me I realized he was being greedy and demanding all the same.

It's hard to call him an abuser because he had no wish to hurt me. There should be a word for an unintentional abuser. Is there???