MetaChat - Anti-smoking zealots:

Gah! I sympathise. If only there were some kind of stimulant that could be taken in a situation like this that simultaneously calms you down whilst making your brain a bit sharper.

posted by seanyboy 29 May | 18:44

I was waiting in line at the grocery store a few years back, with my little basket full of beer, salami, cheese & crackers. The doofus in front of me in line looked at my stuff and said "That's not a very healthy lunch". I gave him the stink-eye, but I wish I'd had the presence of mind to say "That's funny - I don't recall asking your opinion".

posted by bmarkey 29 May | 18:44

I would have said "it's what your wife requested."

posted by Lipstick Thespian 29 May | 18:52

I remember back in college, some chick dressed like Wednesday Fucking Addams behind me in the cafeteria line gave me similar guff about my bacon cheeseburger with some animal rights nonsense thrown in. Buzz off, deathcookie, please. Shit like this is why I hate zealots of all stripes worse than cancer.

posted by jonmc 29 May | 18:54

RUN JMC - I feel you.

It's mind-blowing to watch someone going through their little internal congratulatory mouse wheel in front of you.

Shrug it off, though, because what's happening is that person is far more addicted to proseltyzing behavior and voicing said behavior than you'll ever be to nicotine.

Another thing: you can quit. They can't. You can have as many cigarettes as you can stand in a day, and it won't come close to the nonstop weirdness percolating in that person's brain.

People are flat-out addicted to themselves far worse than they could ever be addicted to a substance.

posted by Lipstick Thespian 29 May | 18:57

People are flat-out addicted to themselves far worse than they could ever be addicted to a substance.

I see that, dude. I also think there's a weird secular fundamentalist aspect to it all, too, especially with recent converts (whether it's to non-smoking, Marxism, veganism, Republicanism, low-fat living or worst of all Red Sox fandom). They're just like Holy Rollers in that they run everything through their ideological prism, they never shut up, and nothing is ever good enough for them (or as them). Except the Holy Rollers have entertaining cosmic hocus-pocus and better music.

posted by jonmc 29 May | 19:02

I sometimes respond to crap like this by clapping my hands together in delight and cooing "OOOOOOOO, advice!"

I have a feeling "Buzz off, deathcookie" will be popping up in my argot for the next few weeks.

What I'm always afraid I'll actually say: Listen, bub, I'm not judging you based on your market basket crammed with pocket-pints of Allen's coffee brandy, Table Talk pies, laxatives, and that toilet paper with the creepy angel-baby on it. I mean, I am, of course I am, look at yourself. But I'm doing it silently. Si. Lent. Ly. You dig?

posted by Elsa 29 May | 19:02

I can't remember if I've told this story before.

A million years ago, I was sitting outside on a bench having a cig. (This was actually in Long Beach, about 8 years before I moved to L.A. -- I was visiting for a friend's wedding.) A woman across the street saw that I was smoking and actually crossed over in order to confront me, at which point she began coughing dramatically.

"Why do you smoke?" she demanded.

"It helps me to mind my own fucking business," I said.

posted by scody 29 May | 19:07

Oh, yeah. I had some yuppie shitbag pass by me and say 'Cancer cures smoking.' I came this close to saying "Bullets cure busybodies, too."

posted by jonmc 29 May | 19:10

You know why I feel bad everytime somebody criticizes my un-healthy eating habits? Because they're fucking right. I am killing myself with cholesterol and corn syrup. And I don't like myself when I think about it. But you know what? They're not helping me. If they really cared about me, they'd slap that Bacon Cheeseburger out of my fat little hand AND THEN take me home and feed me tofu. But nobody cares that much about me (including me). So when I'm reminded of what a fat slob I am, the guilt effect wears off within seconds of their departure. When I remind myself, that lasts a little longer. Sometimes long enough to get me to stop it for up to several hours.

The zealots who only criticize indeed are only doing it for themselves, and the desire to spoil their fun with the perfect comeback is always powerful, no matter how powerful the "yeah, you're right" guilt is. That's why I like making comments @ MeFi, MeCha and other websites. The comebacks count even when you can't come up with them quick enough to have an effect in conversation.

I am SO going to regret making this comment.

posted by wendell 29 May | 19:15

ohhhhh yeah: "Buzz off, deathcookie!" and "Creepy angel-baby toilet paper".

This, combined with an earlier "fuckitallabingbang" from another day's postings, is why Metachat continues to fascinate and beguile me.

posted by Lipstick Thespian 29 May | 19:16

Also, we have a side door at our store that has a prominent sign saying "NOT an entrance, unless you are SELLING books." and people still walk in through it all the time and get indignant when I ask them if they're selling and tell them to use the front door next time. We're thinking of putting up a sign saying "Illiterate's Entrance." But maybe they're foriegn tourists. But if you can't read English, what the fuck are you doing in a bookstore?

Also, when it get's really busy and the weather is nice we make people wait in line on the sidewalk to sell. But we still get people walking right up to the counter. When I tell them "Line's outside." They're all shocked. Why, this is New York, you have to wait in line to breathe here. I especially like it when some ditzy NYU chick will try to pull the whole 'But I only have a few books and I'm a pretty girl' routine. I love having them stand in line behind the smelly homeless guys while I take my time with them (since on the whole, the stewbums are more pleasant company).

Wendell, those people could care less about you. They just want to show what swell pilgrims they are. No pleasure is woth forgoing for a few extra days in the old folks home.

posted by jonmc 29 May | 19:19

And, if I haven't dug a big enough hole for myself, I NEVER considered variations on "mind your own business" to be a good comeback, so it's especially challenging for me.

If I were jon (and quick-thinking enough) I'd have said to the "All these books around you, and you don't know that's unhealthy?" guy: "Come on, you've gotten just as many carcinogens at your last book-burning."

posted by wendell 29 May | 19:22

Reread me, jon, I said they're only doing it for themselves and the right comeback spoils their fun. Your last sentence required awkward parsing but I agree; Life: Quality > Quantity.

posted by wendell 29 May | 19:26

Cool, we're on the same page. I just hate zealots. I think I just hate people, period. You guys are OK...

posted by jonmc 29 May | 19:29

People are flat-out addicted to themselves far worse than they could ever be addicted to a substance.

That has got to be the singe worst thing happening in the United Stated, IMHO. What ever happened to simple acceptance of others. Why do people make food choices and smoking a moral failure?! It's not a failure of a person's character. It's a failure to walk up to a complete stranger, with whome you know NOTHING, as even think you know enough to give advice.

That said, a friend or family member having a talk about bad habbits is another ting. At least they will stick by you when you attempt to make a change and not guilt or judge you.

posted by MonkeyButter 29 May | 19:37

Also what you said, jon, about that them" run[ning] everything through their ideological prism." For all that guy knew, you just lost a parent to illness and having that one smoke is actually helping you stay together. Sloppy thinking on his part to presume to know better.

posted by MonkeyButter 29 May | 19:41

What ever happened to simple acceptance of others.

Never existed. Oh, I suppose in the past we weren't criticised for smoking or eating meat (because that was the norm), but humans have always and will always criticise each other for every other goddamned part of our lives that are perceived as "abnormal".

posted by muddgirl 29 May | 19:45

Well, jon, I have never actually admitted to being "people". And I do appreciate zealots I agree with because they do the dirty work for me. And you, sir, are often guilty of Anti-Zealotry Zealotry. Which loops into the "ironic" which I KNOW is where you never want to be.

Meanwhile, I'm keeping the following snarks on hand for future critics of my eating or fatness...

"I consider it cowardly to limit your vices to ones that don't show until AFTER you drop dead."

"Actually, my fat jolliness has been clinically proven to make the environment around me 80% less Socially Toxic. I'm proud of that."

"My addiction is still legal, but if you've got a petition to outlaw it, I'll sign."

As you can see, I like comebacks that confuse them and make them think for a long time before realizing exactly how you're zinging them. Reduces the chances of extending the dialogue.

I don't encounter obnoxious judgmental strangers all that often where I live. When the local population is a muddled mix of College Students, Surfers, Fisherfolk, Aging Hippies, Mayberryites (yes, they exist in California), Trailer Trash, Rich Retirees, Subprime Victims, Farm Owners and Farm Workers... people don't start fights often, partly because they're not sure who they're fighting and never sure they have anybody to back them up.

posted by wendell 29 May | 19:51

I sometimes respond to crap like this by clapping my hands together in delight and cooing "OOOOOOOO, advice!"

Love that! When I was a smoker, some friends and I used to joke about responding to adminitions about smoking with an exaggerated "Oh my GOD! Holy COW! I had NO IDEA! Why didn't someone ever SAY SOMETHING!?" and stubbing our cigarettes out all shocked-like.

posted by Miko 29 May | 20:06

The only people worth pestering about self-destructive habits are the ones who believe that suicide is a sin or that there is an afterlife at all.

posted by Ambrosia Voyeur 29 May | 20:07

people don't start fights often, partly because they're not sure who they're fighting and never sure they have anybody to back them up.

I thought you were in California and evrybody there is in a gang.

posted by jonmc 29 May | 20:14

People have only commented to me asking if i know smoking is bad in bookstores.

posted by ethylene 29 May | 20:30

i just them them i know.
Unless they are rude. Then i tell them rudeness can be fatal.

posted by ethylene 29 May | 20:32

Gang? No gangs here. We have to import gangstas from L.A. to rob a bank.

Then again, it can be dangerous around here to have friends: Men plead not guilty to setting friend's crotch on fire

Now that's an unhealthy habit.

posted by wendell 29 May | 20:36

But there's one kind of unhealthy, obnoxious behavior I always have to respond to: pastel figure drawing classes.

posted by wendell 29 May | 20:55

Ages ago at a job I once had, there was a guy who worked in the back - really nice, smart, etc., loved to talk about stuff. I had gone through about an hour of spectacularly bad phone calls of "the excrement has really hit the rotating oscillator this time" type and really needed a smoke.
Stepped out back for a quick one and he comes out to dump some boxes, and looks at me. He says, "You know..." I give him a sideways look like, "uh huh, I know, but no lecture right?" He nods and says, "Ok, but..." and I look him crooked in the eye and say, "...socially acceptable form of suicide," and gesture to the smoke.
He looks at me, opens his mouth, closes his mouth, looks down and walks off shaking his head. Later he told me that was the best answer he'd ever heard.

posted by Zack_Replica 29 May | 21:30

Just be glad you can't get pregnant, jonmc. I had a stranger try and take a cup of coffee out of my hand the other week. They were *this* close to wearing it. I have also been lectured on drinking soda, eating (pasteurised!) soft cheese and having a glass of wine with dinner.

posted by gaspode 29 May | 21:33

Drinking soda means the bubbles get in the baby's body and makes it lighter and kind of floaty. Better for baby, better for mom. Fact.

posted by Zack_Replica 29 May | 21:38

Just be glad you can't get pregnant, jonmc. I had a stranger try and take a cup of coffee out of my hand the other week

OMG I NEED DETAILS PLZ TIA

posted by ThePinkSuperhero 29 May | 21:40

I was trying to remember if anybody has lectured me and gaspode reminded me. I can't believe a stranger pulled coffee out of your hand!

When I was working on the unit and pregnant a certain nurse would always chastise me for drinking coffee. It wasn't excessive coffee consumption. She probably saw me drink one cup each morning I was at work. I just looked at her and kept sipping.

I always loved the people that told me that my babies should wear shoes because their feet would be deformed. Wait for the feet, sock, and shoes comments, among other things, gaspode. They're coming.

posted by LoriFLA 29 May | 21:46

OMFG yes. I have never had children, but because I've had friends who were, I tread very carefully (permission about touching the belly and then only if a close friend, NO NOT EVER comments about lifestyle/timing/etc.) I get pissed off enough about lectures from strangers, I can't believe what pregnant women go through.

I sometimes respond to crap like this by clapping my hands together in delight and cooing "OOOOOOOO, advice!"

Elsa, in my new home I will erect a shrine to you, and that will be our ritual. Holy crap but that's good.

But seriously, let's just assume I can read, have a reasonable level of intelligence, and am aware of what I'm doing to myself. (Especially in Canada, where every pack comes with a graphic photo along with the big warning.) Logic don't cure addiction, fuckwad, and proselytizing ain't gonna do it either. I'll cure my, as Zack put it, legally sanctioned suicide when I'm good and ready, and unsolicited sanctimony from a stranger isn't going to hurry that process along. Indeed, it's likely to make me dig my heels in. Now excuse me while I go enjoy my charred-on-the-outside, red-on-the-inside steak, burned fat and all.

posted by elizard 29 May | 22:20

I had a stranger try and take a cup of coffee out of my hand the other week.

I swear to god this is one of the things that I fear most if I ever decide to get pregnant -- not the fear someone being this rude to me, but the fear of giving birth in jail after I kill the meddlesome fucker.

posted by scody 29 May | 22:21

Fear it! I look forward to it! This is the kind of thing vaguely angry New Yorkers look forward to experiencing, just so we have a chance to channel our rage!

posted by ThePinkSuperhero 29 May | 23:00

Dude, you need to get more creative with your nametag. I used to work with a woman who put "Salmonella" on hers.

posted by trondant 29 May | 23:29

One thing I love about Greece? Nobody ever gets up in your business about things like this... and the Greeks aren't known for keeping their opinions to themselves. It's the all-smoking, all-drinking (though very rarely drunk), all-meat-eating, put-a-little-more-sugar-in-my-coffee country. With dessert.

posted by taz 29 May | 23:48

Oh all the do and don't crapola when you are preggers. For fucks sake I'm pregnant not in loss of my brain function.

I drank a coffee a day and had a few glasses of wine over the time of my pregnancy - mine turned out OK. The whole blanket DON'T EVER on these things is because a few people can't understand the concept of moderation.

I still went near cats but I did stay away from the soft cheeses. But I certainly wouldn't raise an eyebrow to a pregnant woman who indulged.

As for smoking - you don't get that here in Japan because smoking is not really seen as socially unacceptable. Same as meat-eating - the concept of being vegetarian is still beyond a lot of people (oh so you eat ham right?). I guess it's more like Greece than I thought...

A couple of friends though have been told by strangers that they are fat - which is considered socially unacceptable here.

Regardless of the country people should should mind their own business about whatever.

posted by gomichild 30 May | 00:36

You can always quote Oscar Wilde. "A cigarette is the perfect type of a perfect pleasure. It is exquisite, and it leaves one unsatisfied. What more can one want?"

Best done in a patronizing tone of course. It's also worth using an ostentatious quote-voice but not actually attributing it, implying that he'd recognize it if he wasn't so uncultured.

posted by TheophileEscargot 30 May | 00:52

Wifey was in Union Square last week and some guy came right up to her while she was smoking. He was blowing at her cigarette and demanding she put it out. Then he got closer, bumping into her and began spitting on it and her, as his blowing technique was failing. She pushed him away hard (he was kinda scrawny and old). Dude is really lucky I wasn't there.

posted by Hellbient 30 May | 01:04

Little-known biblical fact: there used to be an eleventh commandment. Somebody back in the 10th century decided it was heretical and had all reference to it destroyed. The Markeys have always been pack-rats, though, and we have what I believe to be the only remaining unexpurgated text. Here's how it went:

Thou shalt mind thine own beeswax. Thou hast better things to do with thy time than to stick thy nose into thy neighbor's doings. I am the LORD thy GOD, and I say unto thee that no one likes a busybody. Seriously, cut it out.

posted by bmarkey 30 May | 01:10

Gomi, people will totally tell you you're fat here too. But it's different than in the U.S. where it's, again, considered some sort of moral failure. It's kind of the same here as "you need a haircut" or something... I don't know how to describe it, really. In the U.S. stuff like this is all "you offend me" whereas here it would be more friendship-oriented. For example the geeky little fat kid? Here, not ostracized or bullied; s/he might be teased a bit or even called some nicknames, but s/he's 100% a part of the gang, and always has the support of the group.

I'm not an expert on childhood in Greece, but I've never seen a kid cut out... though it very well may happen in immigrant situations.

posted by taz 30 May | 01:25

The US motto used to be "Mind your business." Fuck "In [someone else] we trust." We need that back on our currency. I don't trust in anyone else, imaginary or real, and I keep to myself.

posted by Eideteker 30 May | 08:04

I've always suspected that the righteous non-smoking crusaders (along with the power vegans, the dont-wear-leather crowd, and the "everything you do is killing the planet" folks) lie along the same continuum as the conservatives who get all het up over teh ghey and reproductive rights. I can't imagine what it would be like to go through life so all-fired consumed with what other people choose to do with their lives and their bodies.

Memo to the lady I encountered a few weeks ago: I understand that you want to enjoy your meal without smelling my smoke. I'm happy to move, or to go outside. No problem. But when I'm sitting THIRTY FEET away from you DIRECTLY UNDER the "Smoking Section" sign, and you have the gall to come up to me with that I-just-ate-a-lemon expression on your face and TELL me to put my cigarette out because you have CHILDREN at the table and God forbid your special little snowflakes should be subjected to a whiff of impure air...well....no. No, I'm not putting my cigarette out. I sat here in order to smoke and drink in peace (and to play bar trivia and talk to my pal the bartender and watch the baseball game). You saw where you were going to be seated, and if you thought it was too close to the smoking section, you can damn well ask to be seated elsewhere.

And if you can't handle that, don't bring your KIDS to a BAR that allows SMOKING. Even if the wings are delicious and they have the best chili cheese fries on the planet. And it's dollar draft night.

posted by BitterOldPunk 30 May | 08:32

A group of us here at work have formed a Burger Club. It's fun. About once a month we go to a burger place - preferably one that serves 1/2lb or larger burgers - to stuff our faces. Successfully meeting the challenge of consuming the entire burger gets you a certificate of Master of Meatery or something else silly to hang in your cubicle.

The funny part is I'm a former (10-year) vegetarian, totally into exercise and healthy eating. But the great thing about being mostly healthy is that you can indulge in fun things like stuffing your face with a burger once in a while and it's OK. In fact, it's delicious.

Anyway, the point is people that have healthy lifestyles don't *have* to be assholes about it. They choose to be. Screw the ones that do.

P.S. Today is a Burger Club day. Whee!

posted by misskaz 30 May | 09:58

I hate having to tell people I'm a vegetarian because most times, a look of comfortability and vague fear comes across their face.
I usually follow it up with "But I don't think you need to be one" or "I'm the non-annoying kind."

I don't like what those proselytizing types have done for us normal, MYOB-type vegetarians.

As a kid, I didn't understand how people could smoke, or not recycle, or not wear seatbelts.
Then I grew up.

posted by rmless2 30 May | 10:40

(uncomfortability, of course)

posted by rmless2 30 May | 10:41

When I was a smoker, some friends and I used to joke about responding to adminitions about smoking with an exaggerated "Oh my GOD! Holy COW! I had NO IDEA! Why didn't someone ever SAY SOMETHING!?" and stubbing our cigarettes out all shocked-like.

Hee! We used to use a similar response, when I was a twerpy youth. (Okay: twerpier. More twerpy even than I am now.)

It was surprisingly satisfying. In a twerpy kinda way.

posted by Elsa 30 May | 10:46

I've been reading this thread with my jaw on the floor. I can't BELIEVE some of the stuff people will say (or do, in the case of the coffee cup!) to complete strangers.

A different, but related, phenomenon I've noticed lately is scolding type messages on hybrid cars. Just in the last two weeks I've seen Priuses with bumper stickers that say "EAT MY VOLTAGE," one with a tag that said "UWSTGAS" (you waste gas), and one that had a picture of a little Prius eating a big SUV, like a reversal of the big-fish-eating-little-fish-thing.

I see these things and I wonder, what's the message here? "Buy a hybrid so you can look like a total tool, just like me?"

(For the record, I think hybrids/alternative fuel vehicles are good, but this kind of "nyah-nyah" marketing tactic baffles me.)

posted by BoringPostcards 30 May | 11:41

hee- I just saw a bumpersticker that said "Do you work for a living, or are you an environmentalist?" which I thought was pretty ballsy to put on your truck in Berkeley.

posted by small_ruminant 30 May | 16:28

29 May 2008