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19 March 2008

You know what my baby dog does everyday? [More:]She chases my kids and nips and bites at them. Growls and barricades them too, in a playful way. This dog is just like a human baby. She is the most playful and energetic in the morning. When the kids come out of the shower with their towels wrapped around them, this is her cue to charge. She bites the towel, bites at their ankles and chases them to their beds. If they try to get off the bed, or a chair, she attacks again.

If she is very frisky and won't back down my kids begin to cry and scream like their arms are being cut off. This only makes the dog more excited, so she bites more. She isn't biting down hard, it's a playful bite, but her teeth are like little needles. Husband and I remind them to: Charge the dog! Stand up! You're the boss! kind of stuff. It works sometimes, but other times not. The kids are still little and I think this crazy dog overwhelms them when she is in hyper mode. They don't always remember not to scream or not to run. Sometimes I put her in the backyard or put her in the crate when she is attacking them. It makes for a more peaceful half- hour when we are getting ready for school.

She also attacks my nephew in the backyard. She jumps up on him and bites his hair and nips on his ears. My nephew, who is autistic, goes completely crazy and starts screaming. I'm sure the neighbors think we're lunatics.

What should I do to keep this dog from attacking the kids? Most of the time she is sweet and gives lots of kisses. But two times a day she is in attack mode. We are signed up for puppy school, but the next class doesn't start until the first week of May. The vet assistant told us to have one of the kids take her bone away from her; To show her who's boss. We haven't done this and we really need to. I can't believe we haven't done this yet.

Is this a puppy thing she will grow out of? Any tips?
Awwww, it sounds so cute. But yea, you're right, the kids need to learn to stand their ground and say, in a firm tone, NO. The dog can't chase what isn't moving. Also, I think dogs understand when something hurts- I've said OWWW! to a dog before when the play biting gets to rough, and they seem to come back gentler.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero 19 March | 21:13
The easiest solution (for the immediate future) would be to keep her crated until after the kids are clothed.

Because right now - with the kids not understanding they are the boss and the dog not understanding her position in the household - letting her engage in the behavior every day is reinforcing the idea that she's allowed to do this stuff.

I would also keep her leashed to you or another adult when your nephew is there. Not forever, just until she's old enough and had enough education to realize she shouldn't be jumping up and nipping at his ears (or other body parts).

This also sounds like a great opportunity for you to work on the "off" command. "Off" meaning to get the hell off whatever...off the person, off the table, off the sofa, etc. (I use "off" for getting the dogs off stuff. I use "down" when I want them to lie down.)
posted by fluffy battle kitten 19 March | 21:14
It's probably worth teaching her that using her teeth on people, at any time, is not allowed. She's going to get big enough, and be around enough kids, that you probably don't want her thinking that biting is ok sometimes.

Your vet or trainer will probably have more up-to-date thinking on how to accomplish that, but with the last bitey puppy my family had, our vet told us that when he started biting, we should wrap a hand around his muzzle firmly and put our face right up against his and growl -- the idea was to imitate a mama dog's typical reaction, which would be to use her mouth to close the puppy's muzzle and make her displeasure known.

It worked for that dog, but I have to say, I hesitate to advise anyone to put their face right up to a biting dog, so do what makes sense for you and your dog.
posted by occhiblu 19 March | 21:19
Sigh. I wrote out a fairly long follow-up comment, and I have no idea why it reposted my first comment instead.

The basic idea of the lost comment was: While holding the puppy's muzzle with our hand and growling (softly) at him, we were also supposed to make sure that the puppy kept eye contact with us, and that we were the first to break eye contact, with a kind of "You're too insignificant for me to even look at" sort of attitude. Establishing eye contact, and being the first to break it, was fairly important.

But we were also dealing with a dog that was starting to become very aggressive in a lot of ways, so our vet had us all doing a LOT of mama-dog-ing to socialize him.
posted by occhiblu 19 March | 21:28
Thanks, guys. These are great tips already. I will definitely use them. I need to start using the down command. Thanks for the reminder, fbk.

occhiblu, I agree. I don't want her to think biting is acceptable, ever. Husband and I have been muzzling her with one hand since day one. When she bites, we muzzle and say, "No bite!" She rarely nips at us anymore. It's the kids she still tortures. I will definitely try the growling, make eye contact, and then drop eye contact before she does method.

We couldn't take the nonsense of the chaotic mornings so we do crate her for a little bit. I feel bad, but it was stressing everybody out.

She's such a sweet, funny, smart little thing. I think she is highly trainable, so we need to be consistent and get on it.
posted by LoriFLA 19 March | 21:34
With our puppy we trained him to lick instead of biting. Put some peanut butter on your knuckles and then whenever the dog licks the peanut butter off, praise her and say "kisses". Once you've done this for a while, you can combine this with occhiblu's excellent advice. Scold him in that way and say "no; kisses" whenever he bites. After a while he should learn to lick instead of biting. It's probably also worth making sure that he knows his place in the pack (i.e. below the kids) so feed him after the kids and generally reinforce where he belongs. I have to leave for (internet deprived) work, but I'll post some dog info when I get back.
posted by GeckoDundee 19 March | 21:38
I've found that a loud "OW!" when a puppy or kitten is biting teaches them to back off. It may take a few times but they catch on that biting is not acceptable behaviour.
posted by deborah 19 March | 21:46
Yeah, you gotta get this stopped right now. It's cute, but that's gonna be a big dog real fast and if she does that with big jaws and teeth, even in play, it will do damage.
posted by Doohickie 19 March | 21:52
What I did with Lucy was to grab her by the back scruff of the neck and bring her down. You don't have to be rough, but don't worry about emotionally scarring the dog; it's what their mothers do to discipline them. You have to do it when you see the offense occurring, and say "NO" forcefully. What should happen is that you grab her near the collar at the back of the head and then pull her head and upper body to the floor. She should submit to you immediately, but will quickly recover and be playful again.

What you don't want is to make the crate or outside seem like punishment or isolation time. I know it's necessary sometimes to just get the dog out of the way, but preventing bad behavior as a puppy will go a long way.
posted by kyleg 19 March | 22:31
kyleg is right about the crate. Don't use the crate as a punishment. (When I said to keep her crated until the kids are clothed - I didn't mean to do so as punishment. I meant to keep her crated as part of the happy morning routine.)

Crates are really good when they're used properly. Both of my dogs crate themselves on and off throughout the day because they know the crates are their safe place.
posted by fluffy battle kitten 19 March | 23:31
The Bees is sleeping in her trolley stroller carrier thingie right now. She loves it. It's her favorite thing.

Puppy has to learn down. Poor puppy.
posted by ethylene 19 March | 23:40
and that we were the first to break eye contact,

occhi, I disagree. With dogs and cats (and even parrots, horses, etc.), whomever looks away first is giving the upper hand to the challenger. In instances where you are trying to reassure and animal that you are not a threat to them, it is helpful to break eye contact first, but it is not helpful to do so if you are trying to gain dominance over them.

Another helpful rebuke in dog language: make a bitey snap motion with your hand, right in their face, and at the same time make a harsh "sschtt!" noise; this translates as a nip and mild scolding.
posted by Specklet 20 March | 01:49
It's possible that piece of advice was specific to our dog. He really hated to make eye contact, and it was definitely, for him, a way of saying "I don't have to listen to you!" Then if we did get him to make eye contact, he'd just squirm away to break it as quickly as possible (usually while trying to physically squirm away from our holding him). And he was having some major aggression and socialization issues. So the overall idea was basically, You pay attention to me when I want you to pay attention and *I* decide when you get to stop paying attention.

Like I said, we were having a lot of issues with the dog (he was the only survivor in the litter and his mother's milk didn't come in, then the breeders basically gave him run of the house until he was old enough for us to pick him up, so he just was not socialized at all), so some of this may not be universally applicable or necessary.
posted by occhiblu 20 March | 02:15
As others have said, the pup needs to learn her place in the pack, which is below the humans in the household.
posted by essexjan 20 March | 02:54
Don't use the crate as a punishment. (When I said to keep her crated until the kids are clothed - I didn't mean to do so as punishment. I meant to keep her crated as part of the happy morning routine.)

For sure, fbk. Like your dogs, our dog goes in just to chill out and chew her chewies. We leave the door open and she wanders in there a couple times a day.

I will admit having some frustration, picking her up quickly, and putting her on the porch for five minutes while we all calm our nerves. I know this is something we shouldn't do.

I like the idea of the leash. We had her on the leash for the first two weeks she was home, and then we got lazy and let her off the leash when outside in the backyard. We have a fenced-in yard. I will put her on the leash when the kids are outside. This is a good opportunity for some training to get down off the kids.
posted by LoriFLA 20 March | 07:09
Yeah, she needs to learn that she must never, ever snap at a human. It takes a while for puppies because that's how they play with each other, but it can be done. With my dogs I went for a combo approach of the loud YIP like I was being hurt and then total shunning for a few minutes. She needs to learn that the minute she snaps at a human playtime is OVER. Period. Full stop. I don't think putting her immediately on the back porch is a bad thing at all. And then I have been known to smack my dogs sharply on the muzzle when they did this - I know it's not what you're supposed to do but it gets the point across. Both actions are followed by immediate removal from the scene. Doohickie is right, btw, you need to deal with this now before it becomes ingrained.
posted by mygothlaundry 20 March | 10:21
Is the dog herding the kids? If the dog has a strong herding instinct, you'd do well to get her into training, so she knows how to express herself safely. Working dogs can be kind of compulsive, and their energy has to be redirected.
posted by theora55 20 March | 12:12
I think she may be trying to herd the kids, I'm not sure. She is part Australian Shepherd, part Golden Retriever, part pain in my ass.

She is mostly latching on to towels or pant legs and not letting go. If the kids aren't in the mood and start to whine and cry that the dog is on them, this only makes her happier, and she clamps down harder. I think she thinks it's a game. I have to go over and get her off.

She snaps at them, especially when they run. If they make abrupt moves she will jump up with her mouth open with a little playful growl. This afternoon my son was doing some karate moves with karate sound effects and the dog jumps up and starts to bite his shirt. He didn't care and shook her off. She calmed down quickly. I think the dog thinks that they are inviting her to play rough.

We were in the yard today. The kid took the dog's bone away from her about ten times and the dog didn't do a thing. She let him take it willingly, which is a relief.

I think she is very playful and is very mouthy and we haven't been firm, or consistent enough, to stop biting the kids. Every chance we get (when she is biting) we muzzle her with our hand. Husband is more serious and firm than I am. He holds her mouth shut longer than I do, and sternly, but quietly tells her "no biting". She doesn't like this and starts to whine a bit, I feel sorry for her, but she never bites him. So, I guess it works.

If she is attacking and the kids are freaking, I'm mostly about getting the dog off, telling her no, getting her out of the area, and stopping the kids' whining.

Half the time they allow her to jump up and don't mind if she tries to snap at them, because a lot of time she doesn't make contact.

We are having so much fun with her and she is sweet, but like I said she's hyper and mouthy like a lot of puppies are, I guess. I need to set some boundaries and have a well-behaved dog. I can only imagine the handful she will be if we don't. She is growing so fast. She is going to be big, like doohickie said.

I'm going to call around and try to get into training sooner than May. Even if I have to go to PetSmart, then I'll join the May class when it comes around.
posted by LoriFLA 20 March | 13:49
Good luck with everything, Lori. It sounds like y'all are doing the right things, you just need to make sure you stay consistent with it.

And damn those cute little puppy faces! I remember that my mother would continually have to look away from our puppy when she was training him, because he'd do something he wasn't supposed to do, she'd go to discipline him, and he'd make such a sad-cute pathetic face that she'd start to laugh and have to turn away to regain her stern "I'm upset with you!" look and tone.

Silly puppies. :-)
posted by occhiblu 20 March | 15:39
Thanks, occhi. It is hard to give a cute little puppy a scolding. :-)

Thanks all for the very helpful advice. I will give an update soon when she is behaving like a little doggie angel.
posted by LoriFLA 20 March | 16:54
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