MetaChat - Warning: Typical Grumpy Cynical Jonmc Post Inside

This thread is useless without pictures.

posted by doctor_negative 25 June | 10:13

Definitely.

Celebration and suspension of the standard order (misrule) is a central human need and is embodied in all of humanity's most ancient traditions as well as current incarnations (Mardi Gras. Carnival. Christmas. Harvest celebrations. Solstice celebrations. Purim. Every now and then, people need to cut loose. The idea is that these celebrations create a conduit for behaviors that are otherwise not desired in civil society to have a somewhat acceptable outlet.

If there's any relation to Spring Break, it's only because Spring Break is just one of these traditional phenomena.

Basically, the broad historical generalization here is that people need to party.

posted by Miko 25 June | 10:15

I have a feeling I'd feel equally out of place and unwelcome at all three

You don't like anything you feel you might be unwelcomed at, or by (grammatically horrible sentence but I'm heading out and don't have much time). It's a classic defense mechanism, and how you cope with a lot of things - by disliking them and finding fault with them in advance, or without ever experiencing them. If you eschew something in advance and form a negative opinion of it, you don't have to risk actually experiencing it, where your fear of being rejected or feeling out of place might be realized.

My armchair psychoanalysis is now complete. Goodbye. I'm going to a great thrift store on my lunch break where I hope to score a bunch of t-shirts with hokey things printed on them for 25 cents each in the boy's department. The boy's department is a great untapped resource in any thrift shop...lots of cool stuff there for us wimminz.

posted by iconomy 25 June | 10:16

What mean either/or, kemosabe? Them pretentious, you grumpy. Grumpy, daring, resourceful, and masked. AYAYAYAYAYEEEEE!

Don't let nobody tell you who you are, neither. Including yourself.

posted by Hugh Janus 25 June | 10:19

Exactly, which is cool with me. It's just that all the Moon Goddess/It's About Art, Man hoo-hah that the BM/Solstice crowd insists on rubs me the wrong way. Just like the college kids in Ft. Lauderdale they want to get loaded, flash their goodies and maybe get laid. This all needs no justification.

ico: I dunno. just sometimes (culturally) feel like a man without a country. Poor me. ;>

posted by jonmc 25 June | 10:20

I have a feeling I'd feel equally out of place and unwelcome at all three

Nah. I've socialized with freaky hippies, religious Republicans, billionaires, hillbillies and the blue collar folk. People are people. 98 percent of the time they're too busy doing their own thing to hold you up to the level of scrutiny you seem to fear.

posted by jrossi4r 25 June | 10:25

(more thought)

If there's anything that bothers me about Fremont Street or the Bourbon Street scene (when it's not leading up to Mardi Gras, that is) in New Orleans, it's the commodification of this need. Basically, there is nothing in particular being celebrated other than the potential for merchants, casinos, or bars to make some money by manufacturing a festival atmosphere.

People need real festivals, and these versions are pale imitations.

The boy's department is a great untapped resource in any thrift shop...lots of cool stuff there for us wimminz.

That's the Tip of the Day if I ever heard one!

You're definitely needlessly grumpy, jon.

The stuff they do needs no justification, but it's better if there is a justification. If that behavior is your culture all the time, it becomes meaningless. It gains its value as an exception to the general run of daily experience, and the reasons for making that exception(the 'judtification,' be it religious, seasonal, cultural) are where the meaning derives from. If we just wanted to party like frothing animals all the time, we certainly could. But we prefer it with a context, so that we can create a productive society during the rest of our time.

posted by Miko 25 June | 10:28

Am I the only person here who did something not involving debauchery during Spring Breaks past?

posted by mdonley 25 June | 10:30

What's wrong with parties and festivals and stuff anyway? From my varied experience with such things they're great. They're big parties. There's music and beer and cool stuff to look at and do. There's no "feeling out of place" that I've really ever noticed. And on preview, the art & moon goddess stuff & so on is how these things get organized and don't end up being just part of the consumer culture (although some of them definitely do anyway) like Spring Break where it's just get fucked up and go to a zillion bars.

At least at festivals there's something else to look at and creating that experience is usually why the festival exists. I've been involved in planning and putting together events on and off for years and it's all about everybody letting loose and having fun and, most importantly, getting the art and the music out there where people can discover it. LAAF (last link,) for example, was started specifically for actual Asheville people instead of tourists and it showcases actual Asheville artists and musicians as opposed to the national circuit festival people that things like Bele Chere and LEAF bring in. The Powwow, (first link) was started in a similar way for Baltimore freaks to get together, hear each others' bands, party down and raise a little money for varying causes and also so we could make and launch a bunch of wacky boats off this horrible urban park full of hospital waste.

posted by mygothlaundry 25 June | 10:32

Individually, people are people and generally OK. When two or more are gathered together, the control-freak comformist asshole seems to come out in everybody. Whenever I encounter a subculture or whatever I feel like I have to pass a test before I'm a member of the club, and the older I get the less appealing that is.

Miko: I'm not saying people should party like maniacs all the time, merely that it all seems less....stupid and silly if people just admit that they wanna get loaded, naked and laid rather than make up cosmic hoo-ha.

mdonkey: I couldn't afford the whole Spring Break thing and I washed out of college after 2 years, so that whole thing is as alien to me as BM or Solstice. When I wanted to party, I simply said "Self, I wish to party."

posted by jonmc 25 June | 10:34

I'd like to take a moment to point out how thrilled I am to read the acronym, "BM," and to encourage its further use, which I find comical ("...as alien to me as BM...").

posted by Hugh Janus 25 June | 10:39

i don't BM, Hugh. I plan on exploding when I'm 40.

posted by jonmc 25 June | 10:41

Why don't you go to Burning Man and find out? It's a huge event now, and there are a million things to do there - tons of music, lots of cool people to meet. Just stay away from the stuff/people you don't like. You don't have to roll around naked in the mud and spout hippie propaganda if you don't want to. The pros definitely outweighed the cons.

The two times I went in the early nineties I:
- got to travel across the country with good friends
- stumbled upon a shack in the middle of the desert where Quintron was playing in the wee hours
- layed on the playa and watched the stars while an ambient trio droned on in the middle of the desert
- camped out in the middle of the desert
- went to the hot springs
- saw a bunch of cool bands in the middle of the desert
- laughed my ass off in the middle of the desert
- drove a drive-a-way car around with my friend on the hood in the middle of the desert
- played an open radio DJ set (just sign up) in the middle of the desert
- met some cool people in the middle of the desert
- saw lots of boobies in the middle of the desert
- hung out in Reno for a day or two
- made some music with friends in the middle of the desert
- hung out with good friends in the middle of the desert
- rode a bike around in the middle of the desert
- lived for 5 days in the middle of the desert
- beat up some hippies in the middle of the desert

Of course there's an unwanted element to it, but it's easily ignored, and doesn't need to ruin your time. I had a great time, you just need to find something/someone and latch onto it for awhile. Thousands of people go and just set up and do their thing - bands just set up wherever they want. Just walk around and you're guaranteed to find something fun (and if you don't then yeah, you're probably a grumpy old man). Would you have skipped Woodstock because of the crowd?

posted by Hellbient 25 June | 10:55

Well, you don't have to do anything you don't want to do.

It's a much nicer life when you don't let yourself get so bugged by what other people want to do, though.

It obviously means something to them it doesn't mean to you. Live and let live.

posted by Miko 25 June | 10:56

You were trolling for nudity on flickr and found a bunch of folks dancing naked in the street and somehow you decided they must be control-freak comformist assholes?

posted by danostuporstar 25 June | 10:58

We have this but it has gotten institutionalized to the point that I was over it years ago. There is a hippie bureaucracy that is pretty obnoxious, and anymore you have to get tickets to it from Ticketmaster. Or find a niche and camp out there, which I did for a number of years.

At these kinds of things, esp. when the word-of-mouth is so favorable, I always seem to be this close to finally having a GREAT time, but I never quite get there. It's like it's around the next corner, then the next, then the next.

I can understand jon's point of view, but I also understand MGL's and ico's.

posted by danf 25 June | 11:03

My question is, why troll for nudity on Flickr? There are many places with better stuff, including all sorts of action, much better for looking at while you jack off.

Including freaky controllable assholes conforming to clubs.

posted by Hugh Janus 25 June | 11:03

Would you have skipped Woodstock because of the crowd?

No, but I'd be there simply for the sex, drugs and rock and roll, no apolgy.

(and I sincerely doubt that the BM crew would be thrilled with me sitting in a lawn chair drinking Bud, playing Nashville Pussy, and staring at boobies. I'm sorry but it just seems like some lysergic version of the junior prom, and I've spent my life trying to get away from cliques and competition and status seeking and I'm-cooler-than-you and that's how most of these events and most subcultural activities seem to my eye.)

Miko: I'd never stop anybody from doing whatever the hell they want, but I also reserve my right to express my opinions about it.

Hugh: I've already exhausted all the other female nudity on the internet. It's down to Flickr now.

posted by jonmc 25 June | 11:04

A sad day indeed. I understand your grumpiness.

posted by Hugh Janus 25 June | 11:14

I sincerely doubt that the BM crew would be thrilled with me sitting in a lawn chair drinking Bud, playing Nashville Pussy, and staring at boobies.

You're totally wrong. Nobody would give a shit. Really. Nobody. And there really is no "BM crew". You're just making shit up because you've never been there and you have this impenetrable "me vs. them" thing.

posted by Hellbient 25 June | 11:23

Yo, keep typing stuff like "BM crew," that shit is hilarious.

I'm a get a t-shirt made saying "BM Crew" in glittery bubble letters, maybe in an attractive brown; I'll wear it to BM (both at home and in the desert) and hang out with the flaming-skull-codpiece and chrome mask crowd over by the courtesy tent.

posted by Hugh Janus 25 June | 11:30

You're totally wrong. Nobody would give a shit. Really. Nobody

Then why should I go. I could do what i described at home. No offense to your good time, hellbient but my impression of BM is based on what I hear online from people who've been there and there seems to be a large doofus quotient. NTM, since the dawn of the web, we've all been inundated with tankerloads of Burning Man, et al hype, and hype turns me off quicker than anything.

Plus, if I attended every event before forming an opinion, I wouldn't have time to do anything else. I do what most people do, form an impression and decide whether or not to go based on that. I'm sure there are plenty of things I enjoy that others would find stupid and silly or whatever (and believe me, I've heard enough about it from many) but I wouldn't tell them that their opinion is invalid since they've never been there.

you have this impenetrable "me vs. them" thing.

Nothing impenetrable about it. Declaring yourself an adherent of an ideology or a member of a subculture or whatever ultimately robs you of a full view of the world and some intellectual honesty, so I avoid group affiliations assidiously and question them whenever possible. Keeps me sharp and honest.

posted by jonmc 25 June | 11:34

I feel like I need to jump in here and address some of the misconceptions about the Solstice Fair and Parade. (I just rolled out of bed, so this may wander a bit.)

First off, it's not some corporate-sponsored event, nor is it the "show us yer tits!" deal that Bourbon Street appears to be. (I say "appears to be" because I've never been there myself, and thus am in no real position to comment. Ahem.)

Fremont has tradionally been the neighborhood where the hippies and "free-spirits" live. The parade is something that grew out of that milleu. It's a celebration of individuality and creativity - that's it. It's actually quite family-friendly, believe it or not, and it's totally inclusive. No one checks your hipness quotient at the door. Young and old, straight and gay, and many many families in the crowd and in the parade.

Those pix on flickr may make it seem like it's all about the naked bicyclists, but that's just a small portion of the parade. And here's something else to chew on: most of the people I saw taking pictures of the bicyclists were middle-aged men. If I may generalize, middle-aged men are going to focus on the cute young female bicylists. Believe me when I say that the spectrum of people in that portion of the parade runs the gamut. It's just that the older and/or less-toned aren't going to get their pictures taken as often.

Most of the parade is made up of floats and marching bands, just like any other parade anywhere. Since (I assume) you were looking at the flickr group, jon, you should know that. It's just that the ones in Fremont are a little bit more on the odd side. Sometimes quite a bit more. But I assure you, there is no club. The public is invited and encouraged to help build the floats. Hell, the local newspapers are behind the idea now. This was not always the case.

Anybody can play at the fair and parade, if they want to. If you want to feel excluded, you're welcome to do so, but you're doing it to yourself.

posted by bmarkey 25 June | 11:45

Oh, and inebriation has absolutely nothing to do with it. Like I said, it's really very family-oriented.

posted by bmarkey 25 June | 11:46

If you want to feel excluded, you're welcome to do so, but you're doing it to yourself.

Of course I am, because I can't take the whole thing seriously. Are those naked bicyclists naked because of 'art,' or because they just wanna show off their boobies and get attention? I'm figuring the latter, thus pretension.

No one checks your hipness quotient at the door.

In my experience, most people everywhere do this all the time. And I freely admit that I fail most people's equation whether it's based on ideology or 'cool.' And I'll admit that may be the source of a lot of my cynicism, but it dosen't make me wrong.

posted by jonmc 25 June | 11:50

Jon, the participants of the parade don't take it seriously. It's fun. You're the one that keeps bringing up art, and you're being twice as judgmental as you claim the participants are. Really, the whole point of the parade is about not fitting in. Weirdos, misfits and throwbacks are welcomed.

Look, I've actually been to the parade. If you want to make wild-ass conjectures from 2400 miles away about something you've never seen for yourself, you're gonna have to accept that you are quite often going to be wrong.

Trust me, man, there is no agenda of exculsion. If you'd just drop you inferiority complex for a little while, you might find yourself enjoying life more often.

posted by bmarkey 25 June | 12:04

I wouldn't tell them that their opinion is invalid since they've never been there.

Not invalid because you haven't been, just misinformed because you haven't been. You clearly have an impression (from cooler-than-thou people bitching about it on the internet! great source!) that's it all a bunch of hippies/Spring Breakers and you'd never find anyone like-minded, and that is pretty much the definition of pretense. I can say with much certainty that you'd be wrong.

Declaring yourself an adherent of an ideology or a member of a subculture or whatever ultimately robs you of a full view of the world

Yeah, but going to BM doesn't necessarily mean you're declaring anything. I'm sure you could go and return without being indoctrinated by the "BM crew". Hell, I'd go again just to wander around the impromptu desert city at night again.

Then why should I go?

To experience something other than the porch. Why does anyone go anywhere?

posted by Hellbient 25 June | 12:10

If you'd just drop you inferiority complex for a little while, you might find yourself enjoying life more often.

I enjoy life thoroughly. and I enjoy my inferiority complex, it's my fuel.

My ultimate point is simply this: the only difference between the naked cyclists in the parade and some sorority chick on South Padre Island is some fashion quirks and a few gallons of body paint.

you'd never find anyone like-minded,

well, generally me and you are pretty like minded, we could drink some beers and listen to some old Starz records, but we could do that anywhere.

posted by jonmc 25 June | 12:15

Hey, hey, hey! There ain't nothin' wrong with pretension, just like hypocrisy's part of the human condition. Taking a stand against pretension and hypocrisy is about as sophisticated as a Black Flag lyric.

People who check you out, for any reason, and find you lacking, are doing something to themselves, and nothing to you. If you still want their attention after they've singled themselves out as judgmental, that's your prerog.

So walk in there, say, "Dammit, this is my BM!" and everybody else will say, "Dude, It's that guy's BM." (Because they probably don't care).

Really, railing against pretension is garden variety grumpiness; just because it's pretentious doesn't necessarily mean the pretense is conscious; everyone forgives the pretense they like; just because counterculture is the prevailing culture now doesn't mean that everyone's buying into the mainstream; just because the BM freaks (HA!) aren't dirt-chugging, baby-stealing hippies like at Woodstock or jail-bound, drug-cadgeing hippies like at Altamont doesn't mean they aren't getting off on doing their own thing.

I've never been to BM (though I look at one or two every day), and I don't plan to go, but not because of the crowd. I'm not so interested because of me. Sounds like you are, too.

posted by Hugh Janus 25 June | 12:21

Dude, don't make me cast my hemp net around you and drag you to BM.

But we do need to drink some beers and listen to some Starz soon.

posted by Hellbient 25 June | 12:21

My last sentence sucks; I don't care to make it better.

Oh, and thank you, hellbient, for all the funny BM references. Up with BM!

or maybe, Down with BM! That's probably more comfortable.

posted by Hugh Janus 25 June | 12:23

you know where to find me, hellbient.(and hugh, of course)

People who check you out, for any reason, and find you lacking, are doing something to themselves, and nothing to you. If you still want their attention after they've singled themselves out as judgmental, that's your prerog.

That's probably right, but such people tend to be the most big-mouthed, so it's difficult not to be a bit disgusted.

(also, I was watching a morning show about the 'Summer Of Love' a week ago and they showed footage of The Who. THE WHO! Keith Moon fucking despised hippies. When they'd offer him flowers, he'd accept, smile and devour the bouquet, God Bless his insane heart. Kinda put me in anti-weenie mode I guess)

posted by jonmc 25 June | 12:32

Burning Man to me has always looked like an unpleasant place to be, but I can totally see why others would dig it. I guess I like a comforts of home a bit too much. I know most of the people that go there are just trying to have a good time, but it seems like all I can focus on in regards to these kinds of events are the few pretentious people trying so hard to be noticed. I know I shouldn't let them spoil my fun or cloud my judgement of the event as a whole, but I can't help it. When I was younger I know I had a severe look-at-me thing going on, but now that I'm older I try to act like I've always known better.

And when did they put nudity on the internet?!?!

posted by Slack-a-gogo 25 June | 12:33

I WANNA GO BM!

posted by Hugh Janus 25 June | 12:36

You went trolling for nudity on flickr when you knew full well you were already in anti-weenie mode?

posted by danostuporstar 25 June | 12:38

It's Fremont, not Fremont Street. If you're going to slag on something, at least get its name right.

posted by matildaben 25 June | 12:43

Awww.

posted by Hugh Janus 25 June | 12:45

If you're going to slag on something,

Please, plenty of stuff I love gets slagged here and on MeFi all the time. Fair's fair.

posted by jonmc 25 June | 12:49

Keith Moon fucking despised hippies.

Off topic, but did you hear that they're making a Keith Moon bio-pic starring freakin' Mike Myers? Isn't he like a good decade or two older than Moon when he died?

posted by jrossi4r 25 June | 12:53

The sad irony to me is that you use a guise of independence, lack of 'conformity' and fair-mindedness to judge other people. You call their motives into question and dismiss their activities as devoid of meaning, all to contrast yourself against them as somehow more direct, sincere, or self-aware. I agree with iconomy: this functions like some sort of a defense mechanism for you.

posted by Miko 25 June | 12:53

That begs a broader question, what are the criteria we use when judging others? (No fair pretending we don't). Seems like jonmc's being pretty open about his criteria here, and elsewhere. Can we get the same candor all around?

posted by Hugh Janus 25 June | 12:57

Would someone please point out the pretentiousness in a coed group of about twelve people riding bikes down the street nude - except for body paint that makes them look like Where's Waldo? 'Cause I'm just not seeing it. And what abou the riders who don't wear paint - are they also pretentious? Jon, didn't you and pips go to a nude beach not so long ago? Was that also pretentious?

Again, the bicyclists are a very small portion of the parade, but that seems to be where we're getting hung up. Are there people who do it merely as exhibitionists? Probably. I'm sure there are also people who do it because it's fun for them, and others who see it as a form of self-expression. That's no more pretentious than The Ramones or The Dictators - just dumb fun/self-expression.

And ultimately, why is any of this any skin off of your nose?

posted by bmarkey 25 June | 12:58

Jon, didn't you and pips go to a nude beach not so long ago? Was that also pretentious?

Nah. because I went there to hang around naked and look at naked people. I never claimed it was about anything other than exhibitionism or voyeurism.

Again, the bicyclists are a very small portion of the parade, but that seems to be where we're getting hung up. Are there people who do it merely as exhibitionists? Probably. I'm sure there are also people who do it because it's fun for them, and others who see it as a form of self-expression. That's no more pretentious than The Ramones or The Dictators - just dumb fun/self-expression.

And ultimately, why is any of this any skin off of your nose?

Beacuse of this: we'll get all indignant about 'fratboys' and 'rednecks' ogling boobies in some Girls Gone Wild video, yet my reaction looking at the naked girls on bikes is the same as looking at the topless sorority girl: nice boobies, honey. Yet, the two groups, Fremont Parade Hippies and Spring Break Fratboys are utterly comfortable despising eachother when to these eyes they are both doing the same thing. And ultimately, I have no problem with what either group is doing, I just can't help but see a little smidgen of hypocrisy is all.

posted by jonmc 25 June | 13:06

We? We who?

posted by bmarkey 25 June | 13:09

We? We who?

The majority of MeFi and MeCha. I've read enough threads and comments to get the gist, trust me on this.

(and as far as slagging goes: I've been in threads that were started for the express purpose of slgging on someone or something, and when I pipe of in defense of the peron or work in question, I get called out as hostile. This rankles)

posted by jonmc 25 June | 13:12

Also, the women in Girls Gone Wild videos aren't always in any condition to give informed consent to their appearance therein. Nobody trolls bars here to convince hot chix to ride down Leary Way.

On preview: Metachat ain't MeFi. Why conflate the two?

posted by bmarkey 25 June | 13:13

Actually I am waiting for jonmc to come down here and go to church with me. No nekkid people but if he comes on the right Sunday they might be playing one of my songs.

He can wear his jeans and bring his ciggies if he likes. The cigs would just make people think he's in the AA group.

posted by bunnyfire 25 June | 13:14

Burning Man has been a life-changing event for a lot of people, me included. But it's really difficult to put it into words. It's the kind of thing you just have to experience for yourself.

I used to try to tell everyone how amazing & fantastic & mind-blowing it is, but I've learned that I just come across sounding like the mindless hippie drones that annoy jonmc.

FWIW, from what I've seen of jonmc's personality here and on mefi, I think he'd find himself quite at home.

posted by treepour 25 June | 13:14

bunnyfire: thanks, but it's not the nakedness that bugs me. and the last time I was in a Pentecostal church was when I wandered into one looking for a restroom (I'd been drinking). They obliged until I wandered into the deacon's office. They hollered 'No! The second door!" Some did anyway, the rest were speaking in tongues and stuff. (true story)

FWIW, from what I've seen of jonmc's personality here and on mefi, I think he'd find himself quite at home.

You ive me too much credit. Last time I was in Key West for instance, I almost got into a fistfight with a homeless musician.

Also, the women in Girls Gone Wild videos aren't always in any condition to give informed consent to their appearance therein

and there's NO substances being used at that parade? C'mon, don't lie to me like I'm Montel Williams.

posted by jonmc 25 June | 13:24

and there's NO substances being used at that parade?

I didn't see any, nor did I see anyone who was obviously under the influence. That doesn't mean that it didn't happen, but this really isn't the Mardi Gras-type deal you seem to think it is.

(and as far as slagging goes: I've been in threads that were started for the express purpose of slgging on someone or something, and when I pipe of in defense of the peron or work in question, I get called out as hostile. This rankles)

And that makes it right how, exactly? At the risk of sounding like my mom, two wrongs don't make a right.

Metachat is remarkably free of slagging, on the whole. Why not strive to keep it that way?

posted by bmarkey 25 June | 13:29

Hey, I warned you that I was being grumpy and cynical, and, no offense, I'm still unconvinced.

Metachat is remarkably free of slagging, on the whole. Why not strive to keep it that way?

Because I'd lose my self-respect if I don't stand up for my own opinions and tastes. And when I post about something I like, I 100% expect that somebody will slag it or more likely it'll be dismissed entirely. That's rule #1 of the internet.

posted by jonmc 25 June | 13:36

Isn't he (Mike Meyers) like a good decade or two older than Moon when he died?

Yeah, but Keith Moon LOOKED 20 years older than he really was when he died. Talk about somebody that put that hard living in his face and body.

posted by Slack-a-gogo 25 June | 13:36

Well of course you're unconvinced, jon. You had your mind made up before you ever posted the thread.

Which is kinda my point. You're making all sorts of assumptions, based on a few pictures, that don't really have a whole lot of basis in fact. Doesn't it stand to reason that someone who's been to the parade, or Burning Man for that matter, might have a better idea of what goes on there than someone who hasn't?

when I post about something I like, I 100% expect that somebody will slag it or more likely it'll be dismissed entirely.

Really? That's just incredibly sad. And yet it still doesn't justify slagging things yourself.

posted by bmarkey 25 June | 14:00

Metachat is remarkably free of slagging, on the whole.

Such great mysteries are contained in the word "remarkably." Plenty of slagging, exactly of the type jonmc is engaging in here, goes on. It's just not considered slagging when there's consensus, maybe?

posted by Hugh Janus 25 June | 14:04

Doesn't it stand to reason that someone who's been to the parade, or Burning Man for that matter, might have a better idea of what goes on there than someone who hasn't?

I used the same argument in a MeFi thread about Fidel Castro: that my Cuban-American friends in Miami (almost all were the children of exiles) might be better sourses of information than somebody who's read a few magazine articles. I gor dismissed there, too (and accused of being a'neocon.') because...people just don't wanna hear it is all.

posted by jonmc 25 June | 14:06

jon: so, it's OK when you do it, but not when they do it? Also, once again, this ain't MeFi.

And hugh, I'm certainly not arguing that Metachat is perfect, just that I don't see that sort of thing happening here all that much. Did you have a specific instance in mind?

posted by bmarkey 25 June | 14:15

jon: so, it's OK when you do it, but not when they do it? Also, once again, this ain't MeFi.

The reverse holds true as well. Is it ok when they do it? If so, then turnabout is fair play.

posted by jonmc 25 June | 14:22

No. I'm saying that it's wrong in both instances. Arguing out of ignorance is never a good idea.

posted by bmarkey 25 June | 14:26

Please don't ask me for examples, bmarkey. It's against the community spirit, and specific examples would be too much like call-outs, and I really don't have a dog in this race, and I'm already back to looking like a knee-jerk jonmc-posse member here (even though I disagree with his fullness-of-shit upthread), and this place is supposed to be harmonious, especially when we're slagging celebrities or pols or minor newsmakers or one another, and I've found it pretty easy to behave over the past few months, and I don't want to ruin any goodwill by pointing out exactly how nasty people can get here. Though I guarantee you'll see people ripping on all sorts of stuff, if you look.

posted by Hugh Janus 25 June | 14:32

And I'm not dismissing you at all. It's mystifying when someone who seems fairly bright and with their heart in the right place starts going off half-cocked, so I'm trying to get at what's behind that.

posted by bmarkey 25 June | 14:33

Fair enough, Hugh.

I don't really have a dog here either. I'm not particularly invested in the parade, myself. I just found jon's reaction mystifying, as I said above. I'm gonna go walk the dog now.

posted by bmarkey 25 June | 14:37

jon, I've always pegged you as a bit of a misanthrope and individualist. As such, you probably look on ANY large gathering of people with a good deal of suspicion. Not to get all Myers-Briggs on ya, but I can see where you are coming from. But when you move from a general dislike of such things to a specific criticism of an event you've never experienced first hand, you risk the kind of response that you are seeing in this thread.

Also, my tolerance for festivals, parades etc. has decreased significantly as I've become an old fogey. I just don't like crowds much anymore. The best festival I ever went to was a bluegrass festival out in the middle of nowhere on some guy's farm. Awesome music played well into the night, copious amounts of moonshine-fueled dancing, and completely pretension free. If I had to pick any festival to go back to, I'd go back there.

posted by Otis 25 June | 14:38

I realized this past week that there are certain group-type activities that I will never like or understand- I was at lunch with a friend who works for a Christian youth organization, and she was describing the stuff they do, and I was like, EEEE that sounds so creepy and weird, and I always hated stuff like that. But, hey, different strokes for different yolks- I think I'm just too much of a loner for things of that sort. Other people can be happy doing things I don't do, and vice versa. The world is a beautiful place :-D

posted by ThePinkSuperhero 25 June | 14:45

The world is a beautiful place

You know, TPS, you're the one making it so.

posted by Hugh Janus 25 June | 14:56

Awwww, shucks.

posted by ThePinkSuperhero 25 June | 14:57

What if the whole purpose of Burning Man was just to cheese jon off?

If nothing else, you'd have to admire the commitment.

posted by Divine_Wino 25 June | 15:06

BM, dude; BM!

posted by Hugh Janus 25 June | 15:12

Just cross your legs and squeeze until we find a McDonalds. Think happy thoughts.

posted by Divine_Wino 25 June | 15:14

Easy for you to say; this thing is huge!

posted by Hugh Janus 25 June | 15:18

Clearly, you're not eating enough fiber.

posted by ThePinkSuperhero 25 June | 15:24

I mean the valve, not the flow.

posted by Hugh Janus 25 June | 15:27

Hugh Janus, I'm shocked -- I never expected scatological humor from you! :)

posted by treepour 25 June | 15:48

I tell you, I woulda never thought poop was funny were it not for a girl in my third grade class, Tiffany W----. You know how, before anyone can dig for construction, the contractors have to call Miss Utility (that's what they call the hotline in MD) and someone will come out and spraypaint multicolored markings on the ground telling the diggers where not to dig and how deep not to go? Well, one day after school, we were all walking home, when Tiffany spied a spraypainted log of dried dog dirt, and danced around it, pointing and yelling, "Oinge dooky-dook! Oinge dooky-dook!"

Oh man, was that funny.

posted by Hugh Janus 25 June | 15:57

≡ Click to see image ≡

posted by Pips 25 June | 15:59

Individually, people are people and generally OK. When two or more are gathered together, the control-freak comformist asshole seems to come out in everybody. Whenever I encounter a subculture or whatever I feel like I have to pass a test before I'm a member of the club, and the older I get the less appealing that is.

Jon, you know that I say this with affection: Have you ever thought about leaving New York for a little while? Just for a change?

posted by jokeefe 25 June | 16:56

We're charismatic, not pentecostal. Keep it straight, my grumpy friend.

I gotta get to work on a glossary for you people.

posted by bunnyfire 25 June | 16:59

HJ, I think you need to start a website called oingedookydook.com. I have no idea what would be on the site, but, man, that would be a terrific name.

posted by treepour 25 June | 17:13

Have you ever thought about leaving New York for a little while? Just for a change?

jokeefe, the new york I spend most of my time in is very far from the hipster habitues I decry. and in a city with a population this large, mathematics dictates that the odds of finding someone like me, who appreciates the beauty of drunkenly dancing around on the porch to 'Five O' Clock World' increases exponentially.

posted by jonmc 25 June | 17:34

I don't think you're grumpy, jon. I think you're bored. And anxious about whatever awaits around the next bend. And that's ok.

posted by chewatadistance 25 June | 19:53

No, actually, I'm just a mean-spirited drunk with a chip on his shoulder, but thanks.

posted by jonmc 25 June | 20:11

mathematics dictates that the odds of finding someone like me, who appreciates the beauty of drunkenly dancing around on the porch to 'Five O' Clock World' increases exponentially

Man, that's just poetic. Screw Burning Man, I'd travel cross-country for The Porch Dance.

posted by Elsa 25 June | 22:38

And someday in the far future, when The Porch Dance Festival (Sponsored by Apple) attracts thousands of visitors, a young rebel will come on some chat website, and make a post - "Man, can you believe those people??? What pretentious weirdos". :-)

posted by ThePinkSuperhero 25 June | 23:01

TPS wins the thread!

posted by Miko 26 June | 07:48

25 June 2007