Not all happily partnered people do this sort of thing, of course. I do have married friends who understand where I am coming from, who freely admit that they wouldn’t want to be single themselves because they know it sucks, and who realize that they don’t have any sort of magic advice for me. But some of the partnered people I know are seemingly oblivious to just how insensitive and even cruel they sometimes are, and they make remarks of a kind I never ever hear from single people. The worst offenders seem to be those who found their partners before age 25.

For instance, I’ve had a number of partnered people breezily assure me that I’ll meet someone any day now and not to worry about it. Hey, they used to worry about it too when they were 24 (or 20 or 26), and it was so silly of them because they met someone and it all worked out just fine. And it’s not that important to have a partner anyway because you can be happy without one.

I hardly know where to start.

First of all, not everyone “meets someone”, so unless you have a crystal ball and can see this person’s future, don’t make unqualified statements like this. And be sure that you take the person’s circumstances into mind. In the case of someone who is attractive, outgoing and good at connecting with others, who has never had any trouble finding a boyfriend or a girlfriend, and who has only been single for a relatively short time, it’s okay to assure them that the odds are in their favour. But do take into account their age, because if they’re 36 they’ve been dating 20 years and they’ve had more than their share of break-ups and disappointments. And if you’re talking to someone who has always had a terrible time meeting people and has been single for years or even a decade or more, don’t tell him or her they’re going to meet someone anytime now, because that’s almost certainly untrue.

Secondly, single people usually don’t “worry” about being single in the way that partnered people seem to think they do. Some people don’t mind being single, but someone who is upset enough about single to say so is probably really lonely, not to mention sexually deprived. And being deprived in these ways for an extended period of time is really awful. Companionship and sex are basic emotional and physical needs. It’s comparable to being hungry. And if you’re terribly, painfully hungry, it’s the reverse of comforting to hear “Oh, don’t worry, someday you’ll get a meal,” especially from someone who is happily tucking into a full plate of goodies. And as in that situation, their reaction is more likely to be along the lines of “don’t talk with your mouth full, asshole” than “what would I do without your healing words of wisdom, oh kind gracious friend”. Telling people “not to worry” about a problem really does nothing to help them cope with it. Try to understand what their specific concerns are, and then speak to those concerns.

Now, about the age thing. For women, being single in your twenties is NOT like being single in your thirties. It’s horrible to want to have a child or two and have to watch the days tick by and find yourself doing math like this: [my current age] + my meeting someone tomorrow + 2 years = into the high risk pregnancy years/almost too old to have a baby/too old to have a baby though I am not right now. The chance of my meeting someone tomorrow = 0.0000000005%. I’m not actually too worried about the fertility thing because I’d be just as happy adopting and I can do that on my own, but it still sucks to feel I will never get the chance to have a baby. In any case I definitely don’t want to hear some two-years-married 28-year-old tell me how she used to worry about finding someone when she was 23 and she just didn’t need to worry, so I shouldn’t either. No, she didn’t need to. But I’m 33, and my situation is entirely different. And I don’t think it’s expecting too much that she should know that without being told.

Ah, and then we get to the “it’s not that important to have a partner”. This is definitely one I never hear from single people or from anyone who has ever been single for any length of time. I hear it from people in committed relationships whose partners are very important to them. If something happened to their partners, they’d be devastated. That person is crucial to their happiness. But for some reason they think nothing of cheerily telling other people to just go without a partner. There’s something so selfish about that, somehow. There’s a self-absorbed, unthinking kind of “as long as I have what I want why would I even think about what it would be like for you to go without” subtext to it.

That’s the basic speech I get the most often. But there are also other sorts of comments I’d like to cover.

I do get “So why haven’t you found a man yet, you’re getting old, we’re going to have to find you someone since you can’t” comments from my oldest brother. He’s the ultimate example of the odious married person who doesn’t get it. He married the first girlfriend he ever had at the age of 21 and at 43 he just seems to have no conception of what my life has been like nor care how much these comments upset me. Thanks to him, I have come to understand how it’s almost necessary for character development to have your heart broken at least once. He has learned that whenever he says things like this he will have to have his wife’s elbow surgically extracted from his rib cage, so that has gotten him to tone it down a little bit at least. I don’t need to explain how hurtful and rude these comments are, right?

I also get urged to date someone or other I find totally unattractive and/or told I am too picky. I can’t be with someone unless we have a basic intellectual rapport (meaning we can talk and work together well) and physical chemistry (meaning you know what) and he’s a good, together person who treats me well. If I’ve turned someone down it’s because one of these things are lacking and I felt restless and unhappy when around him. Don’t tell me or anyone else to settle for that. No, another two or five dates will not resolve things. I didn’t give up on it until I was sure there was no potential and it’s unfair to the other person to drag things past that point.

I also hear “well you’re better off single than in a relationship”, invariably from someone whose relationship sucks. I do believe everybody is better off single than in a bad relationship. But for most people, being in a good relationship is better than being single. So if you’re in some meat grinder of a relationship, you have my full sympathies. But do try to realize that there are good relationships out there. Don’t tell people who are terribly lonely to “just be happy you don’t have my problems”.

Then I hear “well marriage isn’t easy either”. Not having lived on a desert island all my life, I do know this. I’ve learned a lot from my own relationships and from those of my family members and friends. I’ve been confidante to close friends through relationship problems so heart rending that I fell on my knees and thanked whatever powers that may be that I’m single. I know there are a thousand frustrations in every marriage that single people never have. And I’ve yet to see the relationship that made me envious. But anyone who is a romantic relationship is ultimately remaining in it because she or he has decided it’s worth it overall, and at the end of that day that’s how I want to feel too.

Then there are the apples and oranges comparisons. I covered one of these earlier with the “Oh I used to worry about being single back when I was 23…” part. Recently I said something to a married friend about how hard it was to take repeated rejections, and he said married people get rejected just as much – they get the “Not tonight dear.” I’ve heard “Not tonight dear” myself when in relationships, and it does indeed suck, but occasionally hearing that from someone who loves you and wants to share their life with you is NOT to be compared with spending the night with someone who is gone when you wake up and never returns your calls, or being stood up, or being told by someone you love that they don’t want you in their life anymore, or spending all your weekends, evenings, birthdays and holidays alone because no one wants to be with you. Please don’t draw parallels where none exist. It can feel so dismissive. Sometimes people do this in an effort to relate, but it’s important to realize when someone else’s problem is a horse of another colour and when it’s a different beast altogether.

Okay, now I’ve just realized I’ve gone on and on in a way that might come across as somewhat obsessive;-) But I’m really just blowing off steam and thinking in type. And reading back over what I’ve written I see a lot of good insights to keep in mind for the next time I’m talking to someone whose problems I personally know naught of… So this was worth writing.

fucking a. every word of it.

this should be printed out and tacked to the front door of every well meaning mother of adult daughters... and a few more wellmeaning sorts that i cant think of at the moment.

OS i really don't know what to tell you that will be helpful. i will say that eighteen months ago i was very much in the same mindset you are right now.

the big difference for me is that i don't want, and never did want, kids...i've been saying it since i was sixteen and the conviction's only gotten stronger as i got older, despite the regiments of busybodies who all said 'oh but you'll change your mind, dear...'

and oy, there's a whole new and unique bag of rejection, assumptions and dismissals there i don't even want to delve into for fear of writing a diatribe as long or longer as yours. let's just say you've never dealt with anything as shitty as having to dump a long term partner after he's turned thirty and suddenly wigged out about it, or dealt with people who think that just because you don't want kids this automatically makes you some species of evil unmaternal hosebeast.

gah.

A few months back when a relationship ended I was a bit depressed. I made the mistake of turning for sympathy to two girlfriends who are married with children. When I complained that I was afraid that I would spend my life alone and childless, they both - separately, and without knowledge that the other had said it - said, "But you're a lawyer! That's a great accomplishment." As though there is some career that they could have chosen that would replace their desire for a family. I was so disappointed that otherwise intelligent women would say something so stupid.

::hugs::

I'm so sorry. I don't know what else to say.

I'm really not targeting this rant at any of the bunnies! I was mostly thinking of some real life co-workers and friends.

I identify totally with this. The only place I'm likely to meet a man is in AA. There's a lot of 'em, so the odds are good, but the goods are odd, hell yeah are they odd.

Haha! I totally hear you! but, as my aunt always says, "it takes an awefully good man to beat no man at all." I should have put that in the favorite proverbs thread, come to think of it.

I'm pretty happy being single, except for the sex, which I could probably do something about if I chose less solitary activities.

My good friend and coworker is constantly on the prowl for me, and usually it's hilarious, although sometimes embarassing, especially when she's had a couple drinks.

example: Don't wear a life jacket when I'm out on the bay because then "the coasties will have to board you! rrrrawr!"

I'm 35, btw, and not interested in kids, so that helps with the ticking clock problem.

Theres a lot of bad advice and grossly uninformed opinions out there. It's real easy for somebody without a vested emotional interest to give an off-the-cuff remark. Most mean well, but it's amazing how people can make some statements about your life as if they're outright facts.

It's not like telling somebody "Well if you don't watch much TV anymore you really should cencel your TV Guide subscription". Relationships are sort of a big deal in people's lives.

When prompted for an opinion I think you're entitled to speak up, as long as you're sensitive to the person/situation AND willing to listen to/partake in the WHOLE conversation.

Dating advice from afar is tricky business, and if you give shoddy advice at the wrong time it can be quite hurtful. One of my problems is that I'm so afraid of overstepping my bounds on this kind of stuff that I tend to shy away from giving my opinion even when prompted.

Now on the other side, I've quietly judged people to myslef on many occassions. There are people that I know that I think think things like "She REALLY needs to get out this relationship" or "what he needs to do is get a steady girlfriend and start settling down". That's just human nature. But my opinions on those things are based on such a small collection of tidbits I've gathered about the person. Obviously the people I'm closer to I have many more tidbits to base an opinion around, but there aren't that many people that I feel like I'm personally involved with to give stern relationship advice to. Some people just don't know how to say something comforting without adding a judgement or call-to-action to it. I think I just side-ranted your rant OS, sorry about that.

By the way OS, your "you'll find someone/you'll get food someday" is the best way I've seen that situation concisely explained.

I hear ya, OS, and as always you put it beautifully. Luckily my parents have stopped with the pressure (actually, my dad was never one for that, except when I broke up with someone he thought was good. But that's another rant.) The only regret I have about moving here is that I've pulled myself out of a reasonable-sized dating pool and moved into a dating puddle. Most of the single heterosexual men I've met here (er, about 7 so far) are single for a reason and are either much older or much younger than me. There's also the inevitable soul-searching that being alone for so long can provoke--am I also single for a reason? What the hell's wrong here? It's all very well for your unavailable male friends to tell you how great you are and how they'd be happy to be with someone like you. Thanks for the compliment, but I'd really rather hear that from someone who is free to act on that.

To be honest, most of the time I'm pretty happy on my own. I've had some atrocious relationships (the last one being the exception), and I'm not lonely enough to settle for that crap again. I'm also at a time when I could use the solitude: this winter has been good for introspection and I've learned a lot about myself. But as you say, OS, it's not how I'd like it to be and special occasions in particular can be difficult (for instance, trying to decide who to ask to be my date for my sister's wedding, and bracing myself to be turned down at least once).

It doesn't get any better at 43, either.

I hear you too.

I used to get this all the time and it did my head in. But, from the opposing bench's point of view I do now get the urge to say "You'll find someone." It's only my years of solitude that stop me tripping that one out. But I have the urge.

Mainly because it's banal & easy and beats "You're right. It's entirely possible you'll die single."

Mainly because it's banal & easy and beats "You're right. It's entirely possible you'll die single."

This is just absolutely true and so refreshing it made me dissolve in a fit of the giggles.

"You're right. It's entirely possible you'll die single."

There really is something to this. It's the fact that everyone (single or not) sort of dances around, but there it is. I had a similar epiphany back in 2003 or 2004 when I was going through a really terrible breakup, and in a funny way there was a certain no-nonsense solace to it: rather than fighting against the possibility of not being in a permanent relationship, what if I accepted that possibility that I might indeed die single? How did I want to proceed to live my life anyway? What things did I want to do? What kind of person did I want to be?

It was weirdly similar to when I was first diagnosed with cancer (wow, I think it's been 10 years now!): after having been so ill for so long, it was actually a bit of a relief -- because it was a real answer, and it therefore meant there were real steps to take.

Absolutely, scody. And I do try to take the approach that single or partnered, I have a life I don't want to waste. I think it's better for single people to focus on improving their quality of life and building their social network than on finding a partner. The former two goals are achieveable and within one's control; the latter is not.

MetaChat: a full plate of goodies.

It's entirely possible you'll die single.
And this would be intrinsically bad because ...?

There's nothing wrong with dying single if you are content to be so, dg. But we, especially women, are programmed from childhood that getting married is what you're supposed to do. And as Orange Swan so eloquently posted, the smug marrieds continue to pound this into you*. It's something that's hard to overcome and be comfortable with.

*I am sooo glad I've never had to put up with this from family, friends or cow-orkers. I'm sure some, including myself, figured no one would ever be interested in me. Who knew I'd end up with the bestest guy on the planet.

As for the possibility of dying single: I have, in the last few years, very deliberately developed a Plan B. Although I am very open to the possibility of meeting someone with whom I want to spend my life, I am also prepared for the possibility that that won't happen. To that end, I chose a career that will make me enough money to be able to comfortably raise children alone. I have looked into my options for single parenthood. I feel as though I will never become that desperate single woman stereotype, because I am comforted with the knowledge that although it would be nice to meet one, I don't need a man to have a family. I find that reassuring.

Amro: yes! The "Plan B Mindset" is pretty much where I found myself after my last breakup. I finally got serious about my financial life -- I realized I'd completely internalized this assumption that when it came to getting a house, saving for retirement, etc., *of course* I'd be married (to a man who would presumably make more than I did!), and so I hadn't ever really got into the nuts & bolts of my own finances beyond making sure I had enough money to cover the rent. But once I factored out the Assumed Male Partner With Superior Income, I could develop a real, concrete strategy to get out of debt, get more involved in maximizing my retirement plan, put more into savings, etc.

So even though I'm in a solid relationship now, and we have high hopes (and plans) for a shared future, I know that even if things don't work out, my financial well-being isn't tied to anyone else anymore -- which is, as you said, very reassuring.

The more I read this thread the more I'm grateful for my aunt, who didn't marry until she found the perfect guy- at age 50. If she was lamenting all those years she didn't lament in front of me so I didn't absorb it (take note, any of you who are single and have nieces!).

Given that my choices seemed to be gay (uncle), single (aunt), or terrible marriage (parents), single seemed like the condition to aspire to.

Everyone dies alone - you weren't planning on taking anyone with you, were you? And since women live longer than men and tend to marry men who are older than themselves, they usually outlive their spouses.

Nor is it a good idea to expect a man to take care of you in your old age. Again, he'll be older, and probably not physically able to give you the care you need.

My plan is to spoil my nieces and nephews rotten so they feel obligated when I'm an old bat.

There's nothing wrong with dying single if you are content to be so, dg. But we, especially women, are programmed from childhood that getting married is what you're supposed to do.
Yeah, I actually knew that. It is a shame that society places so much pressure on us to pair up, because there are many people who bow to that pressure and end up making themselves and others miserable when they could have been happy and fulfilled and make all sorts of contributions to society on their own. The basic driver to pair up would be survival of the species but I think our species is pretty safe in this regard and, at this point, that drive to procreate at all cost is probably what will doom us before too long. Those who remain single and childless are actually contributing in a positive way to the longevity of the species.

this would have worked better had I not had to go to a meeting in the middle of typing the comment

Chupahija emailed someone and told them I'd never get married. Cunt. I don't necessarily want to be ( and if I were I'd want a prenup), but I would like something long term...the problem is that there are very few men to whom I've been attracted and even fewer where the feeling was mutual. I don't want to be dominated or controlled, but I do want to feel safe.

Roger, copy all, esp. what mygothlaundry commented. Only a couple years ahead of ya there, mgl.

What I've been reflecting on a lot lately -- three years into a separation that'll end in a divorce next week -- is the great line William Holden gets off at Jennifer Jones in Love is a Many Splendored Thing: "A great many mistakes have been made in the name of loneliness." (In my case, one that's taken 17 years and resulted in a child I love desperately but will get to see rarely and only briefly, with expense and difficulty.) So...yeah, the societal pressure to pair off (although it's not as strong as it was in my parents' generation) can inform some well-intentioned but ill-considered comments. It's not easy for married friends to adequately put themselves in their single chums' shoes, but then, it's probably hard for anybody to talk to or advise anybody else when the adviser and advisee have such different life experiences. (I have no idea, for example, how I'll discuss life choices with my son when the time comes -- we're incredibly different people, and I valued different things at his age than he does.)

Similarly, the motivations of not wanting to be alone, of steady sex, and of social conformity can cause people to want to stay in relationships that aren't in their mutual best interest -- been there, done that! I suspect a great many functional marriages are based on somewhat more realistic expectations than the ideals that were espoused to me and the soon-to-be-ex-Mrs. Pax.

*adds "unmaternal hosebeast" to list of possible sock puppet names*

See, I can't really offer advice because I have absolutely no idea how I ended up married.

Oh hells, I hope I'm not obnoxious. I don't think I am, but someone please tell me if I get that way.

I never really saw myself getting married. I have a short attention span for people (still kind of worried about that one, but so far it's OK). My mother didn't believe me when I told her that the mister and I were engaged.