MetaChat - Got $440? Come drink from our firehose!

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18 April 2007

Got $440? Come drink from our firehose! So my friend invites me to this Landmark Education Forum introductory session last nite...→[More:]

My friend K. for had me come to a seminar that was actually an all-nite sales pitch for this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landmark_Education

I'm glad I read the Wikipedia article, "unbalanced" as it is, before I went. There's a lot of self-help ideas that I can't really argue with, and K. is pretty enthused about how it's helped her, but it's $440 and a weekend of my life (14-hour days, at that), and I can't handle that much change that quickly -- I'd rather just get up each day and keep on being a plugger. Hell, I don't know that I'd want to try it for free. They have their own methodology and lexicon, and they want you to think like they do. And geez, was that ever a hard sell right at the end! It ran from 7:30 to 10:45, and I almost felt like the woman wanted me to fill out the registration form and write the check so that she could draw a deep breath and finally quit pestering me. I think I must've tried seventeen different variations on "well, yes, I see your point, but I'd like to think about it." What I really felt like saying was...unprintable -- this gal was really good looking, but I wanted to mind my manners and not embarrass K.

I almost wished I didn't like K. so much. I would have liked to have asked the presenter very quietly just how much she wanted me to register. "Darlin', are you familiar with the phrase 'quid pro quo'?"

Here, have some more fun reading...

http://www.rickross.com/groups/landmark.html

Talking about my life a little bit -- they want to know what you'd like to change, and I brought up the bare details of ongoing communication issues w/ Pax Jr. and his mom, which was enough to cause jaws to drop in the room -- I allowed as how if mom could go through it at the same time, it might be mutually helpful. Actually, I think they'd brainwash her a lot more easily than me. I’m all about introspection (with some guidance and occasional kicks in the transom) and incremental change and growth; this slam-dunk weekend-marathon stuff sounds way wrong, and they want me to decide just a little too fast for my taste. Hell, it took me the better part of three years to get from “Move out” to where I am now!

Oh, and get this: This hottie high-pressure presenter? She's a school psychologist! (Pax Jr.'s mom is a school admin herself.) I think I got my smirk under control before she noticed it.

I'll be super nice to K. about this; she heard me mutter the phrase "hard sell" and was all worried that I was offended and stuff. I'd have to really *care* about Landmark to be offended. I felt that there's a really high Induhvidual quotient – Scott Adams would’ve had a hard time concealing a smirk of his own, I’m sure. People, I note sadly, are f*cking sheep (I've already mentioned how I feel about Blacksburg and how I’d’ve reacted) and want quick, easy fixes. I thought it was interesting how they want to keep you there until nearly 11 pm –no snacks, and quite noticeably no coffee -- and really ratchet up the pressure at the end: Hottie and one other person each came and sat next to me and "chatted" with me twice. Sigh.

On the way home, it occurred to me that there wasn't much to what we talked about that I couldn't get from the self-help section of the public library.

post by: PaxDigita at: 08:10 | 20 comments

Pax....this thing is pretty huge - an outgrowth of est and The Forum. It's got a lot of hallmarks of cult. I've known some people that got sucked in to it. Just be thoughtful about what you think this'll do for you that an equivalent amount of money spent on traditional therapy wouldn't.

posted by Miko 18 April | 09:31

Did anyone mirror the video? It's gone now.

posted by matildaben 18 April | 09:46

My therapist is kind of like, "why do you need to even be here?" so no worries. I wouldn't have joined even if the two hot blonde presenters had...nevermind. Whenever I hear “three 14-hour days,” I know what’s coming. Not gonna go there. I’ve had a really hard time learning to listen to my intuition, but it’s comin’ in five-by with this stuff.

posted by PaxDigita 18 April | 09:59

PD - I had a friend who went through the weekend, ate it all up (he had a lot of family problems), payed the $1200 bucks for the week-long seminar, then was talked out of it by a friend who'd done the same thing. He still thinks it really kicked him in the ass, relationship-wise, and it seems to me like he relates to his dad a lot better now than before (they had a looooot of serious issues).

But their methodology is really distasteful. I have a problem with "personal growth" schemes that are transparantly about collecting as much money as possible before people become too disillusioned.

posted by muddgirl 18 April | 10:05

Amway without soap?

Commercial transations for state-of-mind are always fraught. The "volunteer" controversy is central to a lot of the concerns that have been raised: if one of the things you are buying is the expectation that you will be a seller (whether you know that at the time of the purchase or not) is problematic.

This would be where k unwittingly created a conflict of interest.

Likewise the implicit transaction of "volunteer" labor raises questions about the fairness of the exchange. If the business is financially dependent on donated labor, then is it really a business and not something else?

Walk on - no harm, no foul.

posted by warbaby 18 April | 10:09

I get angry just thinking about Landmark. A person who I, and a group of friends in college, really looked up to got sucked in briefly and convinced several of us to attend the introductory 3-day session. He convinced me it was a "management" seminar. Fucking torture is what it was--I walked out on the third day and I regret not walking out earlier.

posted by mullacc 18 April | 10:13

Oh, even better, I related all this to a friend of mine who survived a pretty bad Xtian cult experience -- it didn't wind up like Jonestown or Waco, but it could've easily gotten there. (I can put up a link to her 'blog if anybody's interested.)

Anyhow, knowing my prnl history (going on 3 years of sep) she's keying on the hottie-presenter angle and going ape$hit thinking I might be enticed into joining -- as if I'm going to let myself be flattered or led around by my d*ck; I'm way too suspicious for that. I told her I not only wouldn't join for free, I wouldn't even join for free with steady sex thrown in.

posted by PaxDigita 18 April | 10:21

$440? It's cheaper than Scientology but probably just as evil.

posted by doctor_negative 18 April | 10:27

This would be where K unwittingly created a conflict of interest.

Oh, hell, I missed this -- K is a lawyer, too. *cringe*

I noticed a couple of people were attorneys and several were salespeople or had their own businesses. Most of 'em felt like sheeple to me. I did not catch much skepticism among the glances I saw.

Well, as we used to say down yonder, "Y'all have fun with that."

posted by PaxDigita 18 April | 10:30

For some reason, when I was in high school, I got temporarily fascinated by cults (maybe it was because one of my best friends became a Jesus freak for a while). I read several books in a row about cult experiences and how people got pulled into them.

Apart from the personal factors that made them vulnerable, there were always specific strategies at play that the members of the cult used to gain compliance. It was amazing how common they were across various kinds of cults: sleep deprivation; hunger and thirst; encouraging you to cut off communication with non-believers, including your family, or alternatively to constantly proselytize to them; gathering confessions or embarassing information about members, so that the cult members gain power and control by having sensitive information about you; constant repetition of certain messages, songs, catcphrases; love-bombing -- showering new people with acceptance, encouragement, warmth and support; filling all your available time, whether through work or services or seminars or directed study...and so on.

A lot of these things, Landmark does.

One of my housemates back in Philly used to be part of Landmark. It functioned like a drug for her; she'd go to a series of seminars, be wildly pumped up for a while, talk about nothing else, feel wonderfully in control of her wonderful life, alomst manic...and then over time this energy would slip away and she'd slide back into her basic personality. Time for another seminar! What a strange cycle. It definitely seems to prey on emotional need.

For people who need this sort of help, I think the time and money would be far better spent on either a carefully chosen program of counseling, a pile of decent self-help books, and some meaningful community involvements that build real relationships (and that you don't have to pay for).

posted by Miko 18 April | 10:36

I related all this to a friend of mine who survived a pretty bad Xtian cult experience -- it didn't wind up like Jonestown or Waco, but it could've easily gotten there. (I can put up a link to her 'blog if anybody's interested.)

I'm interested in reading about this, so link away!

posted by Atom Eyes 18 April | 10:39

I created a MeFi FPP about this quite awhile ago.

A friend of mine had gotten into it, and in those dark pre-AskMe days doing an FPP on Landmark was a backdoor to finding out what people thought of it. I sent my friend the more reliable of the stuff I found on Landmark, and relaxed. My friend is a basically level-headed guy who needs to find things out for himself. He found the material disturbing, but went ahead and took a few courses. I knew that, in his case, forewarned was forearmed. He got something out of it without being sucked into it, though he did tend to use too much of that tiresome Landmark-speak for awhile.

posted by Orange Swan 18 April | 10:43

Hold on...

≡ Click to see image ≡

Martin Short started a cult?

I'm afraid I'd be hooked once he did the Ed Grimsley dance.

posted by BoringPostcards 18 April | 10:45

Uncanny. Pax, you could well be talking about my very good friend, K, who is a lawyer and is involved in Landmark. She lives far from Chicago now, but still tries to encourage me to go to Landmark seminars, telling me that I'd probably get something out of them.

posted by smich 18 April | 10:51

Atom Eyes, here 'tiz. This is a pretty cool lady, actually. She's more of an artist than a writer, but the gist is there. She's still reaching out to fellow survivors of this and other cults.

smich, the K in question actually doesn't earn a living as a lawyer -- she's in middle management. She and her SO are really smart, capable, mature, stable people, so I'm a little surprised that they're mixed up in this. Only a little, I say, because despite being the token bookworm in a mainly blue-collar fambly, I've come to suspect I've got more street smarts in my left pinkie than they have between 'em.

posted by PaxDigita 18 April | 12:09

During a rough patch several years ago, I asked my HMO doctor for antidepressants. He tried to sell me on Landmark instead. He even told me he was reluctant to give me antidepressants because if I took them, Landmark wouldn't let me in.

Gotta love HMOs.

posted by mudpuppie 18 April | 14:37

Ye gods, mudpuppie!

posted by Miko 18 April | 16:48

Damn. The word "unprofessional" doesn't even begin to capture it.

posted by jason's_planet 18 April | 18:23

I can't handle that much change that quickly -- I'd rather just get up each day and keep on being a plugger.

Change doesn't happen in a weekend seminar. It just doesn't.

You've got the right approach. Keep plugging away and see what you need to work on and make little changes every day, every time you see an opportunity present itself. Little changes will turn into big changes. You'll see some setbacks here and there but it will work.

It won't cost you $440 dollars. And it will feel better because you've done yourself according to your agenda, in accordance with your methods, not some snake-oil schema.

posted by jason's_planet 18 April | 18:27

j's_p, thanx for the validation. I knew I was gonna be all right as of last fall when I noticed the steady exercise was beginning to really show, and not just physically.

posted by PaxDigita 18 April | 18:36

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