Good luck!
*knocks on desk*

Dating is Hell...

um... you said it.

it doesn't sound like a good scene unless you can truly chill, say, "it is what it is" and believe it, and have no expectations. or convince yourself that it's going nowhere and that anywhere it just HAPPENS to go is just gravy. and then if it DOES go somewhere REALLY great someday, then you can slowly relax and accept it.

i don't envy your position.

I call the "Friend Speech" the "but talk". As in:

"Gee eek, you're a really nice guy"
"buuuuuuut"
"And you're so much fun to be around"
"buuuut"
"And you're a handsome fella"
"buuuuuuut"

And then one of the following:
"but I recently broke up with somebody and not ready for a relationship"
"but I don't want to ruin our friendship by getting into a relationship with you. I like you too much"
"but I'm just so confused, so let's be friends OK?"
"but I'm seeing someone else, though if I wasn't I sure would be interested in you."

etc. ad nauseum

Yes dating sucks big green rats dicks.

oh ah ugh. Best of luck.

I remember giving the If Talk ("You *are* really fun and you are cute and I would, I suppose, go out with you, *if* I weren't unbelievably stupidly in love with that Guy I Told You About. So, if you want to spend all your spare time on girls who might sleep with you instead of with me, I won't be offended, but I'll miss you." I suppose it wasn't the greatest thing ever, but at least I was honest.

Geez. As someone who's been through this song and dance many times and always came out as "the friend" I'd advise you to get rid of her and stop wasting your time and energy on the whole thing, it ain't goin anywhere and you'll just end up a sucker in the long run.

Yeah, I've pretty much been through all the variations of the Friend Speech. I'm almost 40...not 14. But this is kinda new...I've returned to a state of 'no mind' about it, so I can enjoy myself as it unfolds.
I'm not going to pursue this for months. I figure it'll work itself out the way it's supposed to, like most situations in life. And probably in fairly short order. If she wants to see me and get to know me better, that's cool. I have nothing to hide, I made my intentions perfectly clear. And rather than worrying about 'blowing it', I know the world won't end if this doesn't work out.

So we'll see. Dinner was really nice and she's coming down to pick me up from work so we can go to watch a friend's Jazz band tomorrow. Then on Saturday I'm going to take a break and crash (with permission) a girl's night at a friend's house.

Gambareh!

I'd advise you to get rid of her and stop wasting your time and energy on the whole thing

Except, you know, she's actually communicating honestly and directly with him about her feelings. That doesn't happen so much with a lot of women anymore.

On the one hand I can see where people are coming from with their negative views on her behaviour, there are plenty of women nowadays who manipulate guys for fun (and profit!) But this woman seems to be genuine. Whilst removing false people in your life is often a good thing, ditching a girl because you can't fuck her only makes you the false one.

This isn't AskMe, where the response to every relationship question is DumpHer. There's a vast spectrum of choices in conducting relationships and if black8 is happy hanging out with a friend of his who he rather fancies then that's as legitimate a choice as any. (As long as he's realistic about the possibility that she will get together with someone else and doesn't brush off other options in his romantic life due to her.)

Good luck mate!

I agree with hugsnkisses. Relationships aren't always easy to understand (do they like you or not?) but sometimes you just have to stick it out. black8 I think the Zen is a good idea. :)

I agree with hugs and halonine. It doesn't sound like she's trying to manipulate you at all; she's been open and honest with her feelings, and seems to be giving you every indication that she's comfortable with you having your own reactions and being your own person. (I mean, *she* didn't send you a passive-aggressive email, right? And she was willing to talk to you even after you did.)

So... good on you. Even if things don't work out, she sounds like a good person, and potentially a very good friend.

Walk.

Walking is always an option, DaShiv. Just not one I want to take just yet.
I think my interest is already starting to wane. But letting this unfold naturally is good, I think.

Last night, after seeing my friend's band (VERY good by the way) I drove her to a lookout point and we had a long chat about everything.
It boils down to this: She's a serial monogamist. And after a marriage, boyfriends and a really bad short term relationship around Christmas, she feels she's finally free and doesn't want to tie herself to anyone. Yet, she thinks that I'm the kind of guy she should be dating (she said I'm the opposite of most of the men she's gone out with -- I find that hard to believe) -- and although there's an attraction, she doesn't want to act on it until she figures some things out for herself. She said she thinks it's unfair and doesn't expect me to wait, but she would like to continue seeing me (and potentially other people), although there'd be no kissing.

Personally, I don't know what I want to do. I too, have options. I know there's nothing I can do to make her change her mind. I've been pursuing her for a month now...and while I understand where she's coming from and appreciate her honesty, I can't live in purgatory.

We agreed explore our options. I'm single. So is she. If we get together somewhere down the road, then fine. If not, that's fine too.

I pursued a woman for three years once - ultimately we became close friends. It was one of the most painful experiences of my life -- and pretty rewarding too. (Now that same woman is dating a drunk her whole family hates. Heh.)

But I won't do that again, not for anyone.

I call the "Friend Speech" the "but talk". As in:

"Gee eek, you're a really nice guy"
"buuuuuuut"
"And you're so much fun to be around"
"buuuut"
"And you're a handsome fella"
"buuuuuuut"

And then one of the following:
"but I recently broke up with somebody and not ready for a relationship"
"but I don't want to ruin our friendship by getting into a relationship with you. I like you too much"
"but I'm just so confused, so let's be friends OK?"
"but I'm seeing someone else, though if I wasn't I sure would be interested in you."

etc. ad nauseum

Yes dating sucks big green rats dicks.

hahhaha, what do you call the engagement break-up by weeks and then months of silence? somehow i think the "but talk" is much preferred; or, in your case, the "butt talk" because if this isn't talking out of your ass i don't know what is.