Woah, that got totally fucked up.

Also, both of them are fucking American bands. Did you punch her in the ovaries for the good of mankind?

[delmoi, I make fixy. Is this how you want it?]

Uh, as far as I'm aware they're not British either.

(on preview: not just me then)

But indie doesn't mean "independent" anymore in the same way that pop doesn't mean popular anymore, they just vaguely describe the form of the music. Someone says they like indie and immediately you know they like listening to guitar music that isn't metal (and it probably doesn't rock much either).

The funny thing is, indie has changed since my day. I used to frequent indie clubs here in London in the early nineties and what I loved was their eclecticism - not just Oasis, Blur, Pulp and the other usual suspects but Metallica, Soundgarden, Nirvana, Pearl Jam and also Prodigy, Fat Boy Slim, etc. One of the most popular bands at the time on that scene was Pop Will Eat Itself who were largely influenced by metal, dance and rap.

I think people should realise that genres are entirely artificial. Music is visceral and people who insist on everyone belonging to one tribe or another is less concerned about music and more concerned with "lifestyle".

Or in other words, the Strokes Girl can go fuck herself.

Taz: yes, you managed to figure out what I'd intended to paste. I figured all the moos would be asleep by now, as I should be.

Also, both of them are fucking American bands. Did you punch her in the ovaries for the good of mankind?

Actually I said to her "Oh, I didn't realize the strokes were British." and she said "yeah, they are." I just assumed no one would ever say something that stupid and so I must have been incorrect. But yeah, both The Strokes and the Killers are American bands. Bizzare.

Hey, wow:

Before they had become a band, all four of them had various jobs. Flowers, who had dropped out of college, was a bellhop for a while at the Gold Coast Hotel. David Keuning, who was originally from Pella, Iowa and had dropped out of Kirkwood Community College and then the University of Iowa, and moved to Las Vegas in
I had a bunch of friends from Pella, I wonder if any of them knew him. Apperantly he's 27, so they might have been in highschool with him.

I figured all the moos would be asleep by now

I love this.

When they started playing The Killers over here, I thought they were British too. Their music sounds British (to me, anyway), which could be what British indie girl was getting at.

British Indie is so not a genre. Since when is indie a national (as opposed to international) phenomenon?

In my mind, bands like The Killers, The Strokes, Kaiser Chiefs, etc are all indie-pop-rock. They're not "proper" indie because the actual music is way too poppy.

Bands like I Am Kloot and Athlete are more indie (and less popular), but the real indie bands are the ones that NO-ONE has heard of ;) Hell, how do we know they even really exist?

Then she says "Oh, let me guess, you like 'everything'" in a sort of dismissive tone of voice.

Well, "I like everything" has become a bit of a tiresome cliche, especially when you dig a little and it turns out "everything" means a short list of indie rock bands, 3 hip hop acts, Carmina Burana, and their dad's copy of Kind of Blue.

My favorite indie band is Pignipple; they've released only one album, an EP that you can only buy from Seney's Rexall Drug in Buffalo, Wyoming.

≡ Click to see image ≡

P.S.T: You've just summed up my "eclectic" music taste in one short & yet withering sentence.

Flopsy, I used to think the Killers were british too (I soon got put right on that one). I wonder what it is that makes people think that? I suppose the fact that they seem much more popular over here than in the States forces them into a "British" genre.

We can all be snobby about the music we listen to. I don't know why, given that musical taste is such a harmless and subjective part of us. For example, some of the dismissive commentry on this site about what constitutes "bad" musical taste makes me shudder.

Mind, I've spent the last six months taking the piss out of Lady Sovereign only to find out that she's actually quite good, so I'm not one to be waving that particular flag about.

Well, "I like everything" has become a bit of a tiresome cliche, especially when you dig a little and it turns out "everything" means a short list of indie rock bands, 3 hip hop acts, Carmina Burana, and their dad's copy of Kind of Blue.

Well, that leaves me unable to explain my musical tastes completely then, if it's nothing but a tiresome cliche. I can list maybe 2 or 3 genres (Bling MTV R&B, really really lame contemporary commercial Country.. that's all I can think of at this moment) in which I do not enjoy a single song. In my do enjoy list I can include such diverse genres as 20th century classical, death metal, drum and bass, bollywood, african drumming, 60s psychedelica, 20s blues, gangsta rap, alt.country, experimental noise, gamelan, dub, free jazz, drone, grunge, 80s hardcore, shoegazer

So how am I supposed to define myself to annoying indi-poseurs who think The Strokes are fucking British? I really don't give a shit about genres - I know a lot of people do (those emo kids, for instance), but I think I've given up on that long ago. I think I've even given up on liking bands. I like sounds, and songs, and instruments, and occasionally albums (that way you don't get burned when your favourite band sells out). I have a grand unified theory of musical enjoyment which I have touched upon here...seriously, I've drawn up a chart. Maybe I'll post about it some day.

One day I'll be listening to metal and watching something off of the Criterion Collection and the next day I'll be listening to Charlie Parker and watching The Forbidden Zone, so it is quite obvious that I have no taste.

I don't think I've ever used the word "indie" to describe my musical taste, despite the fact that me and annoying girl probably like all the same artists. I don't know why it bugs me so much.

I usually say "i like jangly guitary poppy stuff" and if people push I just tell them my favorite band is the pixies and let them work it out from there.

Another moo chiming in:

No one has ever asked me what kind of music I like. Weird.

Delmoi, I hope you have another convo with this girl. Get her to make another comment about The Strokes being one of her fav "British indie" bands. So funny.

Indie is not a genre.

exactly what I thought, ico! Delmoi, you've got to talk to this girl again. Wheeee!

iconomy, what kind of music do you like??

:) I love little serendipities like this. I was listening to the Strokes when I opened this thread.

Heart In A Cage, to be precise.

iconomy, what kind of music do you like??

Oh, I don't really have any general specific preferences. Thanks for asking!

No one has ever asked me what kind of music I like. Weird.

I've been asked this in job interviews. Twice. In the same month.

Now that's weird.

Most indie rock is neither indie nor rock. Discuss.

*grooves to finally filled iPod, 16275 songs on shuffle*

and delmoi: that chick sounds young and insecure about herself, pay her no mind.

what is funny is that the term "indie" came about because the word "alternative" was being used to talk about crap bands that weren't the least bit "alternative" in its original sense. I don't think of "indie" as meaning obscure and unknown, though. I would probably think that the killers are a pretty good example of indie pop/rock, along with interpol, broken social scene, etc... if pitchfork reviews it, I think we can say it's "even remotely indie". blur & bloc party i would call 'brit pop' - but you could claim the indie pop of america is influenced by brit pop. the UK is a funny little island where there is much less cultural division. (I was very impressed as a young teenager in the late 80s that my dorky older half brother from england knew who the Cure were, because at the time in the US, it was a pretty specific portion of people who did. But in england, it was common knowledge...)

music taste is a funny thing, though; you either have to give very specific genres ('post punk/no wave', e.g.) or just name a lot of bands to really get across something about your taste. PST does sum up a common claim pretty well... there's the cool of liking the right genre, and then the cool of knowing the real parameters of that genre, and then being so cool you don't even care about genres at all. I guess the question is whether music taste is purely sensory and should be thought of like a meal - ("you like mexican food? that is so played out and 2001...") or whether our aesthetic choices reflect something deeper in our reflective minds, stimulating responses or ideas rather than just blandly being agreeable... (of course, some will argue that truly good food is an art and not just a question of being agreeable to the taste buds either...)

I guess the question is whether music taste is purely sensory and should be thought of like a meal - ("you like mexican food? that is so played out and 2001...") or whether our aesthetic choices reflect something deeper in our reflective minds,

Well, I happen to actually believe both: The sensory/emotional pleasure of listening to a song is the ultimate dealmaker/breaker but at the same time it reflects something deeper in me I think.

I like to make up band names when I talk to vapid indie folks. My latest? The band, Dick. I love the conversation:

Hugh Janus: I like music, too.

Indie Baby: Oh?

HJ: I especially like Dick.

IB: Dick?

HJ: Yeah, do you know them?

IB: No.

HJ: You don't know Dick? Are you sure you've never heard of Dick?

IB: I don't know anything about Dick. What do they sound like?

HJ: Well, between you and me, Dick sounds like Shit. But Shit's pretty good, too. They're both from Boston.

IB: I don't know Shit, either.

HJ: I know, it's obvious. Wanna go check out my record collection? We could pull out some Dick, give it a spin.

IB: Cool. How about some Shit, too?

HJ: Whatever floats your boat, Indie Baby. Got your coat?

What about Dick's side project, Balls?

They recently cut ties with the industry. Ask dano ;)

I read that as "So this girl, after dismissing my musical testes"

So it would be something like "What, are those windchimes in your pants? I prefer Tubular Balls."

Tubular Balls! Hahahaha!

Hey! I happen to be very sensitive about my tubular balls!

Funny, in a backwards kinda way "British Indy" is a pretty good way to describe The Killers and The Strokes.

the real indie bands are the ones that NO-ONE has heard of ;) Hell, how do we know they even really exist?
Here's a look at the 'future' of 'indie' in the sci-fi webcomic "Starslip Crisis": One Two Three

I have a grand unified theory of musical enjoyment which I have touched upon here...seriously, I've drawn up a chart.

I, for one, look forward to our new musical chart overlord.

Funny, in a backwards kinda way "British Indy" is a pretty good way to describe The Killers and The Strokes.

Well acording to wikipedia, they're both post-punk revival, and a lot of the origional post-punk bands were british.

The ironic thing is that while I love the Killers, the Strokes, and post-punk revival, I've always hated oasis.

I stopped listening to new indie rock back in 1999. And am I the only person that remembers when emo meant Sunny Day Real Estate and Rites of Spring, not idiots with ridiculous hair and girl pants?

Modern music has largely left me cold for a long time. About the only active recording artists that are on my automatic buy list now are Jay Farrar/Son Volt and Gillian Welch. My last few purchases have been: the new Johnny Cash, Gene Vincent, and Screamin' Jay Hawkins. Today I'm going back to the record store to exchange the thoroughly lackluster new Dixie Chicks for either Charlie Rich or Loretta Lynn. Jesus, I'm a curmudgeon.

Oh, I don't think the Killers are remotely indie either. They're a boy band in ties. I can see why someone would think they're English, I thought they were too. I guess I always associate gimmicky music was an emphasis on trends and fashion as English, which isn't really fair.

The ironic thing is that while I love the Killers, the Strokes, and post-punk revival, I've always hated oasis.

How is that ironic?

I like The Killers and The Strokes and I, too, dislike Oasis.

You guys are high. "Definitely Maybe" is a great fuckin' album.

I agree. I'm also a big fan of Tears for Fears' Elemental, though, and I think Oasis have much more in common with Orzabal than with the Killer Strokes.

I particularly Brian Wilson pastiche on Elemental.

In University I remember a girl coming up to me and asking if I listened to 'Alternative.'

I knew what she meant-- bands that sounded slightly different than 'mainstream' bands. And I knew that she was only asking the question because she wanted to get to know me better. But man, did I rankle at 'Alternative' being used as a Genre.

'Indy' seems to be used the same way. 'Indy' used to mean 'On An Independent Label' (like, say, Alternative Tentacles or Kill All Rock Stars or Discord)-- these days it seems to be used in place of 'Alternative:' vaguely undergroundish, kinda a little bit different-sounding than most pop music.

Nowadays I don't care so much how music is labeled. For me this started in the early '90s, right around the time the major labels were trying to sell us all on their brand-new category, 'Electronica'-- which seemed to have been invented so that record stores would have a place to file The Prodigy. Remember them?

Of course, the answer to the question "So... what music are you into?" still stands as a pretty good shorthand character sketch. For instance, claiming the Strokes were British reveals that the woman delmoi was talking to is the worst kind of idiot: a pretentious idiot.

As for me, last night I was totally groovin' to Burnett & Rutherford.

Is It Folk? Hillbilly? Country?

It's Awesome, is what it is.

I'd probably end up classifying it as folk or country, though hillbilly is the rightest category. Unfortunately, you say "hillbilly" to most folk and they'll think "bluegrass," which those gents definitely aren't. So, country, probably.

And I seem to have missed a verb up there somewhere. To like.

heh, taz is funny.

Yeah, The Killers are from Vegas, but I've never met anyone in the local scene that knew or played with them.

I do know that at least one of them is kind of a jerk, showing up to a local dive music club last year in some stupid big fuzzy coat but without I.D. and going all "Do you know WHO I AM??" when they made him leave.

I agree that the girl sounds insecure. She's trying to intimidate people with her musical tastes, but it's not going to be pretty the day somebody calls her on it.

the term "indie" is almost as silly as "alternative." (alternative to what? learning how to play your instruments?)

But anyone who would consider the Killer and the STROKES for Gods sake indie is more to be pitied than censured.

(oh and the proper response to anything like this is "I prefer to judge music on whether it's good, rather than what label it's on or who else likes it.")

Maybe the proper response to "What music do you like?" could be "What day of the week is it?"

Killers & Strokes both seem to me as bands that started out indie but honed their sound pretty quickly to a commercial sweet spot. "Post-indie", is that a word? I don't readily object to indie being treated as a synonym for "jangly non-commercial poppy guitar rock", though. No skin off my nose, hm?

And if choosing to like someone on the basis of their playlist is annoying, how about choosing how to vote on the basis of playlists, as if middle-aged journalists are able to determine from a list of 10 songs which politicians are "authentic" or "phony".

Oh, and I LOL'd at wendell's link: "His entire day is spent foraging for culture."