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14 March 2006

What are you looking forward to? →[More:]Recently, I was reminded how helpful anticipation is. It's good to have something in the offing that you're hopeful, excited, expectant about. So, whether it's next weekend, next month, or next year, what are you looking forward to?
post by: Miko at: 11:46 | 120 comments
I'll start. I'm looking forward to a sailing trip in May. It begins when I rent a car and drive from Miami down the Keys, spend a day in Key West visiting Hemingway's house, exploring, drinking, and eating conch fritters and pie, then join an education schooner for an academic-colleague tutorial as we sail from Key West to Miami. It'll be a great experience.
posted by Miko 14 March | 11:48
An unmarked grave at the end of a desolate road.
posted by Wolfdog 14 March | 11:49
My annual trip to Matinicus Island.
posted by JanetLand 14 March | 11:49
Oblivion.


The video game, not the endless void we are all eventually tossed into.
posted by PinkStainlessTail 14 March | 11:50
Death.

Just kidding. I'm looking forward to living in a new space. To being a single guy in the city. To new frontiers. To a donut. To meeting that girl who will blow my socks off.

And Death.
posted by jonmc 14 March | 11:51
Seeing my best friend on Wednesday. Seeing my other best friend this weekend. Having half a tube of Thin Mints at home.
posted by matildaben 14 March | 11:51
meeting that girl who will blow my socks off.

That's some kind of kinky.

I currently have nothing to look forward to.
posted by sciurus 14 March | 11:55
Working until I'm 70, dealing with a decreased standard of living and declining health. Dying a bitter man.
posted by tommasz 14 March | 11:55
my friends' weddings in Vegas in May then the Bahamas in December.

big group trip with lots of my grad school friends to Barbadoes next April for the cricket world cup.
posted by gaspode 14 March | 11:57
meeting that girl who will blow my socks off.

That's some kind of kinky.

call it a laundress fetish.

(I'm just waiting for some girl who will make me wanna pick flowers from the side of the FDR Drive for her. or sit and share banana egg creams on Ave A with her for hours. or buy her an engagement ring out of a bubblegum machine. the perfect girl will be the one who not only accepts said ring, but insists on it.)

Barbadoes

to eat potatos?
posted by jonmc 14 March | 11:59
jonmc, I think you should aim higher than a girl who'll blow your socks.

I'm looking forward to moving and constructing a house for my family. I'm looking forward to creating a private space where I can feel safe and comfortable with my family and not have to worry about my neighbors or their gangsta-wanka pals.

I'm also looking forward to more coffee, the birth of my second son, getting another dog, getting a new job, seeing my mom in a month or two, buying an RC airplane, getting my real pilot's license and getting back to living in an area where I can and want to ride my bikes again.

And baseball. Yeah. I'm looking forward to baseball.
posted by fenriq 14 March | 12:00
I'm looking forward to the next time I can get together with alla youse NYC mechanisms (out-of-towners more than welcome).
posted by Hugh Janus 14 March | 12:03
I'm very jetlagged, jon. Cut me some slack.

mmm banana egg creams.
posted by gaspode 14 March | 12:04
yeah, banana egg creams. Now, I'm gonna have to go buy one dammit. If I get an extra straw, anyone wanna share it with me all Pop's Choc'lit Shop style?
posted by jonmc 14 March | 12:05
Lunch with that Italian guy. :-)
posted by go dog go 14 March | 12:06
...eating a BBQ sandwich, making brownies, Mexican food, eavesdropping on the people around me, baking, Mexican food, understanding people who talk to me, and did I say Mexican food?
(I'll become and ex-ex-pat later this year. (^_^)y ...but of course I'm already thinking about maybe going somewhere else after, or finding a way to divide our time between two continents, or something...)
posted by MightyNez 14 March | 12:08
Only five more payments until the wife's minivan is paid off.
posted by mr_crash_davis 14 March | 12:10
Nothing immediately sprang to mind, which is sad and speaks volumes. Upon further reflection: Payday. March Madness. Warmer Weather. That's about the best I can do.
posted by rainbaby 14 March | 12:11
Wow, crash, i know how that feels. I just paid off my credit card.
posted by sciurus 14 March | 12:12
I'm looking forward to:

1) turning WWU into a burning wasteland of destruction and desolation. *cue Quicksilver Messenger Service: Pride of Man*

2) doing the light show for a famous musician's birthday party in May.

3) expanding the bunnypin conspiracy to the level of total domination of the planet.
posted by warbaby 14 March | 12:12
The end of my current batch of frustrations - hopefully sooner rather than later. Also the end of the Bush administration, about which ditto.
posted by bmarkey 14 March | 12:13
Matinicus Island looks amazing, especially the fact that this is all the information the website offers:
General Information

Lodge

There is a Lodge on the Island
Reservations are often required.

* * * * *
Homemade bread,
Pies, doughnuts, cookies etc.
in season:
(207) 366-3695

* * * * *
A gift shop
with local art, postcards
and other objects
is also on the island.

* * * * *
Religious Services

Protestant:
In the summer months of July and August:
Sunday evening: 7:30pm

Catholic:
Occasionally a priest visits the Island
Anyone is welcome to attend daily Mass.
(207) 366-3350

(781) 646-0833

oh and transportation info:
Transportation

The Maine State Ferry

offers Ferry Service to and from the Island
Spring 2 times a month
Summers 3 times a month
Fall 2 times a month
Winter 1 time a month

Tel. No.: (207) 596-2202 (2203)
Passengers do not need prior reservations
Cars need prior reservation

* * * * *
Plane:

Telford:
(207) 596-5557
Downeast Air:
(888) 594-2171

* * * * *
There is also a private boat service that runs on reservation

Matinicus Excursions

Telephone:
Until May 23, 2003 - 603-237-8954
May 24 - Sept 28, 2003 - 207-691-9030 (cell phone with voice mail)
MatinicusExcursions.com

SO: as of now I am looking forward to moving to Matinicus Island and living in a small cottage and having a hammock and occasionaly smoking a spliff and eating a grilled fish.
posted by Divine_Wino 14 March | 12:20
1) Friday afternoon

2) Easter weekend, when we will pack the girls into the minivan and head down southways to see my family for a nice long weekend.

Oh yeah.
posted by richat 14 March | 12:24
tangent:

I just worked on a CD that grew out of an mp3 blog I visit daily. First off, whenever something from my online life shows up in my meatspace life (or mainstream media for that matter), I get this very strange feeling of unreality, like when I saw Brian on Family Guy do the 'peanut butter jelly time' dance or when someone yelled 'jonmc! jonmc!' in Grand Central Terminal. (it turned out to be palegirl from mefi. lackutrol from mefi recognized me in a local bar once).

Also, it amazing how many people I've know in cyberspace have sprung off into other stuff based on their capers there. A few people who I used to be close with at another site (but have fallen out with) have become paid bloggers or been quoted in major newspapers or gotten more interesting work (well, I did too, 3 years ago, but I'm ready to step up again). Everyone's gone to the moon.

So I'm looking forward to the day that I am plucked like a gold nugget from the cyberstream by some alert panner.

Till then, I just tell everybody that I'm old school and don't need that shit, plus when Behind The Blogs is finally born 15 years from now, it'll be my booze-worn face dishing the dirt on everybody.
posted by jonmc 14 March | 12:25
If I get an extra straw, anyone wanna share it with me all Pop's Choc'lit Shop style?

Careful. jonmc. You're going to activate my Jughead crush again.

JanetLand: If your trip to Matinicus involves a drive up 95, you'll be going right by me. Stop & say hello in Portsmouth if you care to.

posted by Miko 14 March | 12:26
What I am looking forward to, part 2 (long-term edition):

1) My best friend marrying the most awesome girl for him, and me being their best "man".

2) Going to a Chicago meetup this spring if I can arrange it.

3) Going to visit mygothlaundry and moonbird in Asheville along with BoringPostcards sometime this fall.

4) Going to England and Scotland in 2007.

5) Believing that is is possible that I could meet someone who could love and treasure and admire and be hot for me and be as good for me as my best friend and his fiancee are for each other, and who is kind, smart, emotionally mature, sexy, and a bit perverted in just the right ways, and who lives in the same town as me.

posted by matildaben 14 March | 12:33
Occasionally a priest visits the Island

This would be a great opening line for a short story.
posted by jonmc 14 March | 12:48
The whole little block of text seems like a perfect short story to me, I feel incredibly satisfied reading it, for some reason.
posted by Divine_Wino 14 March | 12:52
Yeah, that's striking. Awesome.

A line popped into my head last night as I drifted off that might find a place in that story:

"I'm thinking about joining the fuckin' priesthood, for crying out -- Jesus!"

I don't know what they're arguing about.
posted by Hugh Janus 14 March | 12:55
1-paying off my trip to Australia

2-scraping together enough dough to get tattooed by my favourite artist

3-finding someone who's socks I can blow off
posted by LunaticFringe 14 March | 12:56
3-finding someone who's socks I can blow off

only if I can...

(nope, can't do it)
posted by jonmc 14 March | 12:59
lunaticfringe that is a great tattoo site.
posted by rainbaby 14 March | 13:02
I love that artist. I'm saving space for him on my back and right arm.
posted by LunaticFringe 14 March | 13:05
Believing that is is possible that I could meet someone who could love and treasure and admire and be hot for me and be as good for me as my best friend and his fiancee are for each other, and who is kind, smart, emotionally mature, sexy, and a bit perverted in just the right ways, and who lives in the same town as me.


Oh yeah -- me too! And don't forget to specify "kind, smart, emotionally mature, healthy, sexy, etc."
posted by Miko 14 March | 13:08
lunatic fringe: If my interior life is anything like most men's (and it is), I can guarantee that you blow someone's socks off daily, even if it's just some guy who's checking you out the bus. We tend to create elaborate fantasy lives and I'm not talking nasty stuff either. He's probably daydreaming about taking you to drive-in movie or a sock hop or something.
posted by jonmc 14 March | 13:09
I say we bunnies invade Matinicus Island and take it over.

*daydreams*

As for looking forward to something: there are several somethings that are supposed to happen this year, but I try to not anticipate things. It doesn't really lessen the disappointment when it doesn't happen but I try to convince myself it does. On the other hand, it's a happy (semi) surprise when it does happen.
posted by deborah 14 March | 13:09
LF sounds like the giving type. Notice she didn't specify wanting to find someone who would blow her socks off.
posted by sciurus 14 March | 13:13
I can guarantee that you blow someone's socks off daily

You know, I so hope this is true, and at this late stage of life I'm actually starting to believe it. Why did they tell us it was so difficult?

I say we bunnies invade Matinicus Island and take it over.

Come on up to Maine, bunnies. There are literally hundreds of islands like this on which we could make our own little warren.
posted by Miko 14 March | 13:16
I'm a simple man who doesn't take too much of a longview. Things I'm looking forward to:

1. Leaving work.
2. Dinner.
3. Getting laid (because it has to happen again sometime, right?)
posted by mike9322 14 March | 13:18
jonmc: that is one of the nicest internet-things ever written for me :) Thanks.

sciurus: I enjoy both the giving and receving aspects of "sock blowing" :P
posted by LunaticFringe 14 March | 13:21
Miko: I feel like quoting here from something that mygothlaundry emailed to me, passing it along in turn from a friend of hers. I think both you and I need to keep hearing this right now (this is for lunaticfringe as well, also Specklet and all the other single ladies out there).

We forget that really women are this amazing thing - that men haven't ever really gotten out of high school and they need to be reminded that having a naked woman around is the best, THE BEST thing that could ever happen to them. Which they really do know. It's when we undervalue ourselves that things go wrong.
posted by matildaben 14 March | 13:22
I enjoy both the giving and receving aspects of "sock blowing"

y'all better cut it out, all the sockpuppet accounts are getting all excited.

We forget that really women are this amazing thing

Oh gosh, yes. You may drive us crazy sometimes, but a world without women would be a miserable place indeed. I've been out of high school for nigh unto 20 years, and a smile from a woman on the street can still have me walking on a cloud for the rest of the day.
posted by jonmc 14 March | 13:28
I am looking forward to graduating from law school in May. I just got back from renting an amazing, awesome apartment in NJ for when I move there from Cleveland after graduation.

Miko, have you been to Key West before? I drove down there once from NJ about 10 years ago (stopping a million places along the way) and it was just such a beautiful place to end up.
posted by amro 14 March | 13:32
men haven't ever really gotten out of high school

I'd love to lie, and say I wished I could disdain all women so, but I'm not such a misogynist, and all I feel in the face of such misandry is pity; I know it's a joke, but I still think, there's your problem, right there.
posted by Hugh Janus 14 March | 13:33
as a matter of fact, this one goes out to all the ladies in the house:

Ducks Deluxe - Love's Melody
posted by jonmc 14 March | 13:35
That is one catchy tune jon!
posted by LunaticFringe 14 March | 13:41
It's a gem, indeed. Ducks Deluxe were part of that whole mid 70's 'pub rock' scene that birthed Dave Edmunds, Nick Lowe, et al.
posted by jonmc 14 March | 13:43
THE BEST thing that could ever happen to them

Actually, I think the best thing that could ever happen to me, personally, is if they start mass producing Orange Crush again.
posted by sciurus 14 March | 13:49
Short term, going home and going to bed to sleep off this developing cold.

Long term... uh, hmm. Got any suggestions?
posted by King of Prontopia 14 March | 13:53
THE POGUES CONCERT ON THURSDAY! I mean, it's going to be my first concert here in NYC. How cool is that? And I requested a half day for Friday so I can slowly hobble into work (after spending the entire night dancing and moshing, natch) and pick up my Girl Scout cookie order, then go terrorize the bars on St. Patrick's Day once work lets out.

Sunday, I'm looking forward to picking up a wooden chest at IKEA to finish off the look of my room. This means I will actually be able to have people over for cocktail parties and hanging out. Maybe I can even host a cool little dinner party like FG just did.

Saturday, I am kinda looking forward to doing my taxes, just so I can see if I'm going to get a refund this year or if my refund is going to cancel what I still owe the government.
posted by TrishaLynn 14 March | 13:57
sciurus: I'm pretty sure you can still get Orange Crush here in Canada (and grape too I think). Want me to send you a case?
posted by LunaticFringe 14 March | 13:57
LF: Are you serious?

You can get it here, but only in specialty bottles for a buck a pop. A case of cans will last me approximately 4 days. I might need to roadtrip to Canada and fill my car with that sweet nectar. The cost-benefit analysis of sending me a case is prohibitive.
posted by sciurus 14 March | 14:01
I am looking forward to sleeping in this weekend, watching the tulips and daffodils continue their journey to the sun, making a good tasty dinner, and waking to kitty kisses tomorrow morning.
posted by tr33hggr 14 March | 14:01
Having the water heater replaced, if it ever happens. I think it's full of salts and calcium deposits, and the hot water has slowed to a bare trickle. Not a Fun Shower.

One of my best friends from New Orleans may be coming here to visit in June. I'll make her play scrabble 'til her fingers fall off.
posted by taz 14 March | 14:04
Sciurus: I'm pretty sure the last time we ordered pizza it came with a couple cans of OC suggesting to me that its still for sale somewhere up here. I'll look around next time I'm shopping. I bet if anywhere in Canada has it it'll be Honest Ed's. That place is crazy-bizarre and therefore one of my favourite places ever. And there's an all-you-eat sushi restaurant just down the street. Also a fav..
posted by LunaticFringe 14 March | 14:21
all I feel in the face of such misandry is pity

Hugh, your point is taken. I am a big fan of men and generally like to give them the benefit of all doubts.

Maybe referring to 'high school' makes it misandrogonous. But if it could be phrased differently, might there be a grain of truth there?

I have always remembered something I read years ago in an article about female body image. It talked about how women can be horribly insecure about getting naked around guys (especially for the first time), and suggested this view as a means of counteracting that: that we take into account that straight guys, at the onset of puberty, begin thinking "Wonder if I'll ever see a real, live naked woman?" And that something of that wonder never fades. So that when you are getting naked around someone new, you can be fairly confident that the uppermost thought in their minds is probably not "Oh my God, does she ever need to hit the gym" but "Oh my God, it's a real, live naked woman."

amro: congrats on the Jersey apartment! This trip will be my first time to Key West, but it has been high on my list of places to visit for a long time. Very excited.
posted by Miko 14 March | 14:23
Honest Ed's looks awesome!
posted by sciurus 14 March | 14:27
I can say without shame that I never did get out of high school. Boobies rule.
posted by mike9322 14 March | 14:29
Honest Ed's is the best thing ever...or one of them at any rate. It is the most surreal place and is literally full of bargains. I have an unhealthy obsession with that store. Ed is something of an icon in Toronto and that store is not to be missed if you're ever there.

You can actually buy (and I've touched these things so its all true) in Honest Ed's the following:
-3D last supper clock
-bust of Elvis in your choice of three colours
-anything for your house
-groceries
-random bits of buddhist shrine from God-knows-where
-socks
-random office supplies
-3D clock of World Trade Centre
-ceramic thingies for any situation
-kitchen supplies
-uh...that's all I got for now
posted by LunaticFringe 14 March | 14:33
misandrogonous

this is what-poorly executed drag?
posted by jonmc 14 March | 14:34
This is what I'd do to make that statement both inoffensive and true:

We forget that really women are this amazing thing - that men | need to be reminded that having a naked woman around is the best, THE BEST thing that could ever happen to them. Which they really do know. It's when we undervalue ourselves that things go wrong.

I think what you're saying about body image goes for most men, too.

Also, upon further reflection, it's a well-visited trope heard from men and women alike, that men are essentially high-schoolers or that women are all lightyears ahead of men emotionally. I'd direct those men who believe or repeat this to the last sentence of that quote.

This kind of stuff goes for all of us. Sure, there are differences in the sexes. Sometimes those differences create tension, sometimes condescension, sometimes even hate. Putdowns do nothing but harm.

Also, don't girls feel that wonder about naked boys?
posted by Hugh Janus 14 March | 14:40
Here is an illustrative parable about the whole boys never got out of highschool.

I was with my friend at some kind of splay-footed quilting hippie hoe-down at his childrens weirdo school and there was this tremendously annoying hyperactive super dorky kid making a nuisance of himself and getting underfoot and being a pain, and he comes bounding up to us, after making some little girl cry and spilling sticky fucking hippie cider all over everything and he's got a bowl cut and these jacked up round glasses and he says, proudly and loudly...

"I am homeschooled"

to which my friend said

"No foolin', Harry Potter, go play outside."

What is the point? I'll tell you later. Suffice it to say, some of us not only never made it out of highschool, some of us were homeschooled. All of us are fairly crazy, thank God.

posted by Divine_Wino 14 March | 14:41
Let's just say that men-as-a-population and women-as-a-population each span the full bell curve of emotional maturity, but I'd still postulate that the overall axis of the curve for women lands higher on the emotional maturity scale than the overall axis of the curve for men. Is that less misandrist, I hope?

Also, don't girls feel that wonder about naked boys?


Less so, I think. Naked boys are awesome and fun but relatively easy to acquire. I won't say more because I'm kind of in a sensitive spot right now and don't want to regret what I say, but what arouses the sense of wonderment in women about men is related to something somewhat less tangible.
posted by matildaben 14 March | 14:48
P.S. I apologize for any insult that may have been conveyed by my posting that third-hand quote in the first place. Hugh's points are well-taken. I should also apologize to mgl for taking something out of context of a private conversation, a context that was far more complex than the wording may make it seem.
posted by matildaben 14 March | 14:54
I'm looking fwd to
-getting my creative facilitation career off the ground this July with my final certification in Toronto!
-Betty coming home today and being investigated by the cats & other dog in the house, and having her own bed.
-watch more ncaa basketball
-the day I am making money again.
posted by chewatadistance 14 March | 14:56
Naked boys are awesome and fun but relatively easy to acquire.

exactly. There's an old joke where a little boy jumps around in front of a little girl waving his pecker going 'haha, I got one of these and you don't.' The girls runs inside crying and tells her dad who whispers something in her ear.

She goes back outside and the little boy is still wagging his weenie around and saying 'I got one of these and you don't!'

The little girl lifts her skirt, drops her panties and says 'Big Deal. daddy says with one of these, I can get as many of those as I want!'

Still rings true.

I'd still postulate that the overall axis of the curve for women lands higher on the emotional maturity scale than the overall axis of the curve for men.

When I was young I was convinced that somewhere along the line miraculous transformations would occur that would transform me from baffled child to can-do adult. While I've acquired some knowledge over the years this never occured. Maybe in previous generations, war or economic hardship or mass migration accomplished this, but in my demographic and younger most people seem like children in grown up clothes.

On to naked women, and what they do to us het guys. I used to (and to a certain extent still) see women as mystical goddesses who I could aquire favors (sex, love, guidance) from if only I performed the right rituals or said the right incantations. I'm only beginning to figure out that they're basically just humans with slightly different parts. But I still like to maintain some of that wonderment and awe. I still love the quality of unveiling and amazement when I see a woman nude for the first time. I love the way a woman's face changes when she lets you kiss her for the first time. And porn (fun though it is) is no substitute for this, since porn chicks bodies are so stylized that they're just another suit of clothes.

(this concludes today's portion of The World According To Jonmc)
posted by jonmc 14 March | 15:01
"No foolin', Harry Potter, go play outside."

That's my new favorite comeback in the world : >
posted by amberglow 14 March | 15:03
Yeah Amberglow, it made me want to live a healthier life so that I could live longer just to increase my chances of being able to use it one day.
posted by Divine_Wino 14 March | 15:11
Is that less misandrist, I hope?

Sure. It's less misandrist to say that than to say that throughout their lives, women continue maturing emotionally, while men cease emotional development around age 18.

but what arouses the sense of wonderment in women about men is related to something somewhat less tangible.

I didn't realize that I had impiled that nudity was the only thing, or even the main thing, about women that causes wonderment to men. I'm sorry to have given such a shallow impression. I never meant it.

I also apologize for the impression I've caused that I'm sour grapey, or hypersensitive or whatever. I'm not. It's hard to explain, but just like with race or nationality, having one's entire sex called immature (not less mature, but immature) rankles a little. I'm sure you'd agree, were our shoes switched.

Now that I've read a bit on preview, I'm only posting this to show you guys what a big pussy I can be.

I find female nudity exciting. I think lust is overrated; I don't get laid a lot. I fall in love all the time. Am I not like other guys? Who cares -- nobody is. Take me as one, not one of many.

Just... take me!
posted by Hugh Janus 14 March | 15:13
Buy me a drink first.
posted by jonmc 14 March | 15:16
*takes Hugh; makes jon an omelet*
posted by taz 14 March | 15:20
I'm with Hugh on this and I think the issue compound. Almost every guy I know has similar body insecurities or the ability to point out what he would improve. There's no denying that there are men who are immature and treat women poorly whether through objectification, unrealistic expectations or outright abuse. However, I don't think this is the norm and if it is, I think it's worth asking oneself why this might be.

For example, how much is one's expectation of being treated poorly/undervalued is actually laying the ground for being treated poorly/unvalued? Also, why would one choose to remain surrounded by people who won't give them the love and appreciation they deserve?

I know a great deal of this hits on life choices and personal histories and these aren't often easy things to address. I'm not saying that if you're getting kicked, you deserve it, but I am saying that one almost always has a choice. In very few situations can the culpability be placed on one side entirely.

Additionally, as soon as one can recognize something enough to point it out as being harmful, or complain about it, there's a responsibility to try and impact it in a positive way. Otherwise, one is doing nothing more that promoting the situation/environment.

We don't make the world (read: our homes, relationships, communities) a nicer and healthier place to be by denigrating each other. We make it a better place to wake up to by being willing to give someone a 'hand up', whether by extending a grace, explaining a hurt or a vulnerability without attacking someone's character (be that gender, race, weight, sexual preference, history...you name it.) We do it by learning to see each other as individuals, each of whom is amazing in our bundle of flaws and attributes. Most of all, we do it by helping one another - and if you can't help at least don't hinder - to be the truly wonderful, loved and lovable people we all really want to be.

There's my take. I know some of you will roll your eyes at it, but I believe to my core.
posted by Frisbee Girl 14 March | 15:21
I love you, Frisbee Girl.

I really do.
posted by Hugh Janus 14 March | 15:23
you're a sadist taz.

(actually when me & hugh smoked some chronic the other night, the whole subway ride home, I was convinced that I was somehow communicating with my 11 year old self and apologizing for the state of my current self. Then I went home and puked up a Double Quarter Pounder With Cheese.
posted by jonmc 14 March | 15:35
So glad everyone likes the sound of Matinicus! The long-term plan is to buy a place out there, but in the meantime this is where I'll be staying, Labor Day week, if anyone wants to, heh, drop by (sorry Miko, I'm already in Maine, so Portsmouth's out of the way).
posted by JanetLand 14 March | 15:40
Update: My best friend is coming over TONIGHT! Yay!
posted by matildaben 14 March | 15:44
I have boy brain wrapped in a hotter than most woman's body. No games. Logic. Wonder at nakedment. You would think this would be a good thing, but women tend to not understand me real well per the relationship scene, cause I tell them straight up what seems to be going on with the guy. I am the boy of my girlfriends (making sure plans are laid, eyverybody is safe etc. - cause they can just be so. . .clueless!). Men, on the other hand, tend to want ta git ta know me. I get cast a lot as lesbians, but I'm straight, while open minded. FWIW. Anyway, if boys are in high school, well, in my wisdom and perspective, I get to visit high school as a woman, and it's a great place to be. Mostly. BLAH BLAH BLAH. Group whuffles. Yaaah. . .generalizations are tricky. There are always the exceptions out there. Meh. Maybe it's the wrong generalization. Maybe it's an introvert/extrovet thing. Introverts are a minority, and introvert women moreso, yes? Orrr. . . I've never wanted babies (gross! borring!). So maybe that makes me kinda different.

Forgive me, I went to grad school, I love to talk about gender issues.
posted by rainbaby 14 March | 15:46
I get to visit high school as a woman, and it's a great place to be.

wanna skip algebra and get stoned in the woods?
posted by jonmc 14 March | 15:47
This kind of stuff goes for all of us. Sure, there are differences in the sexes. Sometimes those differences create tension, sometimes condescension, sometimes even hate. Putdowns do nothing but harm.

Also, don't girls feel that wonder about naked boys?


Ringing endorsement of everything you say, Hugh. Everything.

And, for the record, yes, attraction is a complicated thing, and no, it's not the sheer nudity of the boy that does it for me -- but definitely, when I find myself around a happy naked boy, I'm still thinking "Wow. Lucky me. This is pretty damn cool."
posted by Miko 14 March | 15:55
when I find myself around a happy naked boy

oddly, I've never been a fan of the word 'boy,' applied to adult males. makes me feel like I should be wearing overalls and carrying a pail and shovel.
posted by jonmc 14 March | 15:57
I meant it in reference to high-schoolers, jonmc, but I know what you mean. Prolly same goes for women being galled "girls." I bet it feels demeaning most of the time.

At least it makes you feel like you should be wearing overalls and carrying a pail and shovel, and not like you should be wearing leg irons and carrying a thresher.
posted by Hugh Janus 14 March | 16:06
wanna skip algebra and get stoned in the woods?


Absafuckinglutely.

I gotta tell ya though, nothing's going to happen, but we're gonna have a great time. (I have a lot of boys who are my friends. Is that so wrong? Is that fucked up? Ok, ok, after years and years, maybe something happens, but. . .I'll give you all the dirt on who likes you and stuff. And climb trees. And talk about how fucked up everything is. Maybe hug you, if you're prawwwt is good enough.)
posted by rainbaby 14 March | 16:07
sorry, 'man'.
posted by Miko 14 March | 16:07
Enough of this gender crap, come help me whitewash this fence, jon, I'll give you a frog.
posted by Divine_Wino 14 March | 16:07
I don't want a frog.

(although I recently read a book where the main character is in a restaurant and he orders the 'Surf & Swamp' - Lobster Claws & Frogs Legs.)
posted by jonmc 14 March | 16:12
It's a trick, jon.
posted by rainbaby 14 March | 16:16
Also, I am looking forward to going to the Quizno's on 14th street, where I will have a Black Angus sub minus the mushrooms & onions, but with some banana peppers and whatever else I feel like putting on it.
posted by jonmc 14 March | 16:24
I'm looking forward to going to the open mike at the Press Room tonight.
posted by Miko 14 March | 16:27
I had one a those less the cheese but wid onions/mushrooms, and widout banana peppers, just the other day. Tasty.
posted by Hugh Janus 14 March | 16:27
Mmmmm, toasty.
posted by Miko 14 March | 16:30
Do they have the Prime Rib sub at your Quiznos? They have em here and they're pretty good.
posted by matildaben 14 March | 16:40
This is the greatest place ever.

Where else do folks generally assume good intentions during discussions of possibly contentious subjects?

Thanks, guys. I like metachat better than naked women.

That's totally not true, but almost, well, no, it's not true at all. I like you guys a lot, even love you, but naked women? I mean, come on.

And on preview, I just the other day noticed a regular roast beef, French Dip, Prime Rib, and Black Angus on my Quizno's menu. That's a lotta beef!
posted by Hugh Janus 14 March | 16:44
Yeah -- and the other thing I love is that this thread turned into being about so much more, and being so much more interesting, than it set out to. Derails always welcome!
posted by Miko 14 March | 17:05
It all comes out of the same Boeuf in A Jiffy Meat Product Spray Can.

I Seen IT.

(I like quiznos, I can that because after I eat there I feel like shit but I'm still happy)
posted by Divine_Wino 14 March | 17:06
I can that?

Time to go home divine_fucko.
posted by Divine_Wino 14 March | 17:07
I love you, Frisbee Girl.

I really do.

Oh, Hugh, I hope you know I love you right back. But I also hope it's ok if I leave my clothes on. I'm quite the modest one.
posted by Frisbee Girl 14 March | 17:31
Believing that is is possible that I could meet someone who could love and treasure and admire and be hot for me and be as good for me as my best friend and his fiancee are for each other, and who is kind, smart, emotionally mature, sexy, and a bit perverted in just the right ways, and who lives in the same town as me.

*feels momentarily sick*

I'm gone. See ya'll on Mefi.
posted by jokeefe 14 March | 17:41
I understood every comment in this thread except for the one immediately above.

Then again, I have a fever.

*boggles*

*tosses bunnies into the crowd*
posted by mudpuppie 14 March | 19:07
Yeah, that one lost me too.

*Shrug*

*catches flying bunnies*
posted by Miko 14 March | 19:42
I'm looking forward to the day some bunnies come to Vegas and I can buy them drinks.
posted by krix 14 March | 20:02
People tend to judge others, or at least attempt to understand their motivations and thought processes, according to their understanding of their own motivations and thought processes. This works fine as long as they're essentially similar. It doesn't work very well with regard to certain matters where people can greatly differ.

I don't want to affirm gender stereotypes (which, interestingly, the "wow! a naked woman!" expectation seems to do), but I certainly do believe that, in general, men and women have different kinds of sexuality and nowhere is this more true than with regard to superficial sexual attraction. Metaphorically speaking (probably), men's genitalia are more directly and powerfully wired to their visual cortex, while women's are more directly and powerfully wired to their limbic system. I strongly believe that women tend to greatly underestimate how fixed sexual attraction is in males, expecting it to be more malleable in the ways theirs are as their limbic systems literally rewrite their understand of the world. (Men are as powerfully motivated by emotion as women and as intensely subjective—my point is that men don't have their sexual attraction as strongly influenced by a portion of the brain that is more generally subjective.)

The sexual stereotype of male sexuality characterized as a horny teenage kid whose mind is blown by the presence of a real live naked woman clearly affirms this view of the superficiality of male sexual attraction. But it's oddly placed in this thread in the context of the expectation or wish that (a) male('s) sexual attraction be primarily directly relative to a more noble, meaningful subjectivity. It strikes me that you can, in a sense, realistically have one view of male sexuality or the other—but that having the expectation that a man be driven by a raw, superficial lust that sees the presence of a Real Naked Woman—any naked woman—as Heaven on Earth while simultaneously mourning the immaturity and superficiality of how men behave in a sexually romantic relationship...well, that's inconsistent. Understandable, certainly. Unfair, probably.

To the degree to which my view of male and female sexual attraction and love is accurate, in general or in specific, is the degree to which an emotionally mature man has had to work to achieve a certain kind of enlightenment that comes easier, or preinstalled, in women.

On the matter of male body insecurity, as much as I'd like to agree that men are as horribly stricken by this malady as women, whether innate or socially conditioned, I cannot say it is true in my case nor in the case of many men I know. I don't consider myself particularly attractive. I don't think I'm ugly, but I have a sense of my strengths and weaknesses with regard to superficial sexual attractiveness. I'm short, I'm bald, I'm not athletic. But I'm not particularly insecure about my attractiveness to women. On the one hand, I have a certain kind of self-confidence that comes easily to many men, I expect that I'm attractive in a deeper sense. On the other hand, I don't particularly connect my own self-esteem with how much I perceive I am sexually attractive to other people.

A lot of men aren't like this, and a lot of women are—but, again, whether nature or nurture, I think it's much easier for men to have a self-image and self-worth that does not depend upon their physical beauty.

Whether nature or nurture, I certainly do not intend to reify these experiences of maleness and femaleness—I am more interested in understanding the enemy, so to speak, as to be more prepared to battle it. Biology isn't destiny, but it makes some roads harder than others, some easier.

Finally, I think we all are allowed to be a bit perturbed by the uncertainties of sex and love, and to express that disappointment into something that amounts to a mildly, but mostly harmless, resentment.

I love all you guys, a lot. (But I must confess a 'net crush on matildaben and miko and mygothlaundry. You rock. No more than the rest of mechazens, though. Everyone is awesome.)
posted by kmellis 14 March | 23:46
I can never really participate in these discussions, because I don't think I ever understand anything about how people feel in this context, though usually I think I know a lot about how people feel.

Whenever anyone tries to explain a point of view about sex and intimate relations, it seems to me that it becomes like the three blind guys describing an elephant depending on which part they happen to be touching. Some people think "What on earth is he/she describing? That's totally wrong." Others think, "Huh. Why doesn't mine feel that way?" and still other think, "Oh, yeah! That's exactly what I feel!"

I mean, it's all bigger, and smaller, and higher, and lower than what we can hope to relate to each other, and we all know that. As Friz has indicated, it's only by sharing that we begin to get the larger picture... But it's a really big elephant, and we need to be patient.
posted by taz 15 March | 06:44
Very interesting thoughts all around. I'll admit I was throwing out some rather shallow ideas earlier, but they are ones that have been helpful to me in dealing with the natural fears/insecurities around sexual relationships.

In the broadest strokes, my journey in life has taken me from stubbornly insisting that there were no real (innate, biologically pre-determined) differences between male and female psychology, and that gender is a complete social construction, to recognizing that there are some small but significant differences in the way the two approach the world. I still think gender is almost completely a social construction, but now recognize the power of that construction once it's been developed and lived within over a lifetime.

I am not a fan of "Mars/Venus" conversations, or broad generalizations, and I think most 'evolutionary psychology' is horrendously bad science. I still strongly defend the idea that there is much greater variation within each gender than between the two genders on almost every physical or mental characteristic. So generalizations begin to break down immediately at the level of the individual. I also believe it's incumbent upon all of us to explore, question, and revise, where necessary, the gendered expectations society places on us so that we can achieve some personal authenticity and broaden the definitions of what it might mean to be a 'man' or 'woman'.

There is 'work' required of all of us in finding out what our needs are and how to meet them, how to negotiate with others to get what we desire and achieve good relationships. Perhaps many men and many women find that the required work is somewhat different, but it is probably equally challenging on either side.

I guess by "Oh wow, a naked woman", what I'm really getting at is that at some basic level, as people, we are excited when we find that connection with one another and are willing to give to one another. It's a good thing all around. I'd like to believe that we all really want the same things: respect, belonging, love, acceptance, satisfaction.

These kinds of conversations are encouraging and important and it's nice to be able to have them calmly and pretty much free of judgement.
posted by Miko 15 March | 10:19
I waited to comment on this until everyone was done reading because it all kind of shocked me on several levels. Yes, I wrote the original quote; yes, it was taken way the hell out of context, and no, I don't think men are more emotionally or in any other way immature than women. Among other things, I will put myself up as the poster child for immaturity, okay? Apologies for stepping unwittingly into the minefield.

Meanwhile, what I was trying to get at with that comment were the issues that I and some of my friends, as single women in our forties, are dealing with in terms of relationships/sexuality/dating/body image. Things have changed. It's much more difficult now. A lot of the time I feel, and I don't think I'm alone in this, that I have nothing, yeah nothing, of value to offer a man at this point in my life. Is this just me? Quite possibly, but actually I don't think so - I think many women my age feel this way. And this is a difficult thing to get around when you're still in the dating pool, or you need to get back into the dating pool.

While male sexuality is focused visually, female is often focused on response - in other words, no, looking at naked men doesn't turn me on much but seeing visual proof that a man looking at naked me turns him on does. As we get older, it's a lot harder for many of us to believe that a man could or would want us, which in turn leads to a feeling of loss of sexual worth. In simplistic terms, I was trying to address that issue with, yeah, sort of stupid jingoistic Oprah up with people affirmation language which, in it's simplest form, means this: Males were attracted to me & you when we were in high school AND - despite a lot of personal evidence to the contrary - they still are. There is still some sexual value to me, and to you, to women in their forties.

When I talk about high school, what I meant, and clearly this doesn't come across real well, is that sort of adolescent immediate sexual response that we all remember, a simpler sexual response, if you will, one that isn't fraught with all the baggage we have all gathered by this point in our lives which includes, but is not limited to, body issues. Obviously and certainly, there's a lot more to relationships than sexuality or attractiveness but it's a part, and an important part, of it. It's hard to date people when you feel unattractive and you feel that the will to connection has gone out of your life, because it was something that faded with age. That's what my original comment was all about - trying to recapture a sense of sexual value in it's simplest and most animal - most original, maybe, and adolescent, yeah - form.
posted by mygothlaundry 15 March | 11:16
Well said, mgl.
posted by taz 15 March | 11:38
Very well said, mgl. I guess I was more fraught in high school and now I feel confident and porwerful and immediate - think Mrs. Robinson, or think high school. I think lots of women have this experience too.
posted by rainbaby 15 March | 12:22
I understand where you're coming from, mgl, but I think you'd be surprised at how universal those feelings are. Assertions like "male sexuality is focused visually, female is often focused on response," still prick me, as a guy who doesn't seem to fit. The more these assertions are made or tropes are repeated, the more difficulty I have in reconciling myself versus the world everybody else seems to thrive in.

These things are so minutely specific that it's like we're all speaking different individual languages. Sex in and of itself is one language I guess everyone can share, but as far as I'm concerned, conversing in the language of sex has no value without attempts to share our individual languages. The more we pay attention to the little things worth finding out about each other, those things that have nothing to do with nudity or body image or whatever, the more value sex has.

I'm the product of a Quaker education and I hate generalizations: the larger, the worse. Particularly about sex, which is an individual matter before it becomes a shared one, one where prediction and trend will always fall short, and generalization is always about an entire half of the population.

We're all told different things about the different differences we have; these things form our views of sexuality and our own worth. Our world is increasingly filled with "choices" between diametric and permanent opposites. sometimes our sexual views are forced into such a Manichaean order, and all gains are made at the expense of the other side, and vice versa.

I guess I'm more comfortable hearing statements made about my or your sexuality than I am about male or female sexuality, because the former (assuming truth) are inherently more accurate, useful, and enlightening than the latter.

I sound like I'm telling you that you're full of shit, mgl, but I'm not. I just disagree in certain areas, and considering the original quote was taken out of context, I don't think we disagree all that much.

But somehow I think it's important to tell you how I feel about this. I'm not sexually attracted to many women. Usually takes a lot of talking before I start to find them attractive, and it never has much to do with age.

It's not that I want to be just like "most" men (particularly when the rap in question is caddishness or permanent adolescence), it's that when I'm not like them, particularly in an area like sexuality, I bridle at being lumped in with them.

I think, regardless of sex, anyone would.

So maybe all I'm saying is, if one man thinks like I do, I bet a bunch do. That means there are most likely other guys, like me, looking for the kind of response we (individually) crave from women like you.

It's when we undervalue ourselves and each other that things go wrong.

I hope I haven't offended you with anything I've said. Mostly I guess I'm trying to find happiness myself, and much as I hate to admit it, sometimes discussing feelings helps.
posted by Hugh Janus 15 March | 13:01
Ah, I knew there was a reason I agreed with your thinking, Hugh.

*administers secret Quaker handshake*

Applauded.
posted by Miko 15 March | 13:21
I'm an old Quaker myself.

I think there are definite, physical, hardware facts about how our bodies work and they cannot be ignored. I don't think human sexual response is completely individual. If it was, than there would be no porn industry at all. And conversations like this one would be really completely pointless.

I didn't mean to imply that all men are as one large amorphous male beast. I am getting really upset here by this whole thing and I'll step back, but jesus, Hugh, I didn't say all men are ravenous brainless club dragging fuckbeasts with hairy knuckles and drool dripping through their matted beards. I said, in an attempt to bolster the shreds of confidence I have left, at 42, after six years of being single and hearing from my few lovers that well, in actual fact they are only attracted sexually to skinny skinny super babes in their twenties, don't take it the wrong way, hon, just deal with it, that I had to believe there were still men out there who were happy to be around me, or another naked woman, regardless of her age and/or body type. Who would value and appreciate my body as well as my brain. Who might, in fact, think this.
if one man thinks like I do, I bet a bunch do. That means there are most likely other guys, like me, looking for the kind of response we (individually) crave from women like you.
posted by mygothlaundry 15 March | 14:08
The more these assertions are made or tropes are repeated, the more difficulty I have in reconciling myself versus the world everybody else seems to thrive in.

I feel for you. There's a whole bunch of ways in which my worldview and values and psychology and behavior are at odds with pretty much everyone else and this has created a conundrum that is difficult to solve and very unpleasant. This has lessened over time and it's not really an issue for me today. I think at some point I had a sort of epiphany where I realized that it didn't make sense to build my beliefs about the world and other people around the foundation of my own alienation.

I'm glad this came up because as I reflect on this I'm becoming aware of how great of a change this has been for me. Reconciling my alienation, or at least getting an explanation for it, was one of my strongest needs. Now, it doesn't much matter to me anymore. Weird.

With regard to the subject at hand, there have always been ways in which I'm stereotypicaly "male" and others in which I emphatically am not. There's certain contexts when I'm among other men when I think whoa, are these people from the same planet as me??
posted by kmellis 15 March | 14:43
Can I stick my nose in here? Well, I'm going to.

Anyways, i think you guys (hugh and mgl) are cross-talking a little here, cos you're talking about different stages in the relationship.

I think what Hugh is bridling at is the "immediate attraction" bit, ie. men that are *solely* interested in looks, physicality whatever right from the outset. And he's all like, nah, that doesn't work for me, I have my own parameters etc.

But I think mgl initially was talking about when you finally get to the bedroom be it after half an hour or 2 months or whenever. You may have some sort of crazy emotional connection, but as an older-than-25yo woman (and maybe man, I can't speak to that) you're still freaked out as hell about the whole naked thing, what if he reacts weirdly, I don't look how I did 10 years ago kinda thing. And she's saying that it's reassuring to know that the dude is probably all like "boobies, yay!" and not all "crow's feet, boo! NOT as a means of selecting women, but when you're finally getting it on.

I think. Correct me if I'm wrong and please excuse me for my poor grammar and lack of eloquent Quaker-inspired prose :) I have a point in here somewhere, but I'm significantly more lucid in speech than writing.

posted by gaspode 15 March | 14:48
I said, in an attempt to bolster the shreds of confidence I have left, at 42, after six years of being single and hearing from my few lovers that well, in actual fact they are only attracted sexually to skinny skinny super babes in their twenties, don't take it the wrong way, hon, just deal with it, that I had to believe there were still men out there who were happy to be around me, or another naked woman, regardless of her age and/or body type. Who would value and appreciate my body as well as my brain.

Whatever its genesis, nature or nurture, there is a tragedy here, a common one. But I don't understand why your consolation is a capitulation to the viewpoint that your self-worth is largely dependent upon your sexual attractiveness? Even if it's only one single man that finds you tremendously sexually attractive, and that's all you need, your self-worth is still held hostage to someone else's feelings. Worse, to their hard-on. Is there anything more capricious?
posted by kmellis 15 March | 14:57
your self-worth is still held hostage to someone else's feelings. Worse, to their hard-on. Is there anything more capricious?


Well, two things (I don't presume to speak for mgl, this is just my reaction to the last comments):

1. It's not quite your entire 'self-worth' at stake. I find I can feel competent, smart, funny, valuable as a person, and successful in and of myself, no problem. I have a very good sense of self-worth. But nothing can replace the sensation of being sexually desired.

2. Equating the feeling of being sexually desired with the larger idea of self-worth is one of the worst ways in which our culture screws with the minds of women. So it's easy to mix the two up. But even when these are logically separated, and a woman has a healthy outlook and a well-rounded, grounded personality, there can still be a very natural longing to be desired in that way. It's not crazy or anything. The need for sexual fulfillment just can't be truly satisfied by anything other than that, and feeling that you are being positively recieved physically by your lover is a hugely important part of sexual fulfillment.
posted by Miko 15 March | 15:21
I'm just not making myself clear. Sorry. I wish it was obvious that I didn't mean to offend.

As always, I come off like I'm trying to insult people when I just disagree with them. The harder I try not to, the worse it is.

I won't give up for good, but I will for now.
posted by Hugh Janus 15 March | 15:38
Miko, excellent comment, as always.
posted by matildaben 15 March | 16:06
*flags miko's comment as awesome*

Very true.
posted by gaspode 15 March | 16:18
men are ravenous brainless club dragging fuckbeasts with hairy knuckles and drool dripping through their matted beards

Is it hot in here?
posted by deborah 15 March | 22:42
You [non-sexually-specific description of people] are awesome. Here I was, thinking this would be another thread reminding me of all the wonderful stuff other people have to look forward to that seems to be entirely calculated to make me feel worse about the lack of things to look forward to in my life. As I read, the damned thing morphed into a friendly, polite, informed discussion about sexuality and attraction before my eyes. I would cut off one of my testicles to get all you people together around a campfire and just talk about stuff for days and days and days.

mygothlaundry, I am at least one man who is not attracted to super skinny supermodel types. I find that I am more attracted to women based on some intangible thing they exude - I have no idea what it is, but I know it the instant I see it and the type of woman who has it varies immensely. I generally feel no attraction for pretty 20-somethings, because they almost always give the impression of being pretty clueless about life, which my 44-year-old crustiness just won't tolerate. Women in their late 30s and anywhere in their 40s are the most attractive of all, I think.

I am still in absolute awe of the naked female body - no matter how many times I see the same one, I still feel a little thrill every time. I doubt (and hope) that I never lose that awe, because that is the day I will be dead inside. The female body is a wondrous, exciting, irrestistable thing that I cold drink with my eyes until my head pops.
posted by dg 15 March | 23:23
Aw, dg! I would hang out around a campfire with you and talk about stuff even if you had two testicles!
posted by taz 16 March | 03:35
Um, does this mean no one's coming to see me on Matinicus?
posted by JanetLand 17 March | 09:17
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