MetaChat - So Like,

yeeech.

posted by orthogonality 16 January | 17:11

How do we feel about unanaesthatized dental surgery?

Sorry, but my freshman year roommate downloaded Sweet Caroline onto my computer and proceeded to play it for days on end.

posted by Eideteker 16 January | 17:12

I have a hard time with considering Neil "cool". He has written some fantastic songs, but he is also the poster boy for pseudo-ironic cheese. Exhibit A: Coming to America. Yikes.

Plus, is he still combing his sideburns back over his ears? That's just getting silly with facial hair really. Might as well host a boy-band strip beard.

But, I will never argue his tunesmithing ability. Great melodies come out of the man.

Oh, by the way, I don't have ANY idea what pseudo-ironic means above. So don't even try calling me on that.

posted by richat 16 January | 17:12

I'm mainly with richat on this one.

posted by matildaben 16 January | 17:13

No, really, I know how to spell "anaesthetize." You ever catch something right after you hit "post" and then try to cancel?

posted by Eideteker 16 January | 17:13

richat is faux-pseudo-ironic.

posted by Eideteker 16 January | 17:14

I like the very early stuff -- like "Cherry Baby". But everything after that era leaves me cold, even though it's been hip and ironic to like him.

posted by Miko 16 January | 17:22

and tangentially, what do we Think of the Partridge Family? I personally think they were way cooler than the Bradys. Keith could actually sing, Danny was a cool little smartass, and Lori was fucking hawt. Me and my little sister used to love watching reruns of that show together when I was 19 and she was a toddler. She used to be able to sing the whole theme song from memory at age 4. But my Partridge fandom is well documented.

But here's some stuff for you anyway:

I Think I Love You
Dosen't Somebody Want To be Wanted
Opening Theme

posted by jonmc 16 January | 17:23

miko, I love some of his stuff unironically. It's just so damned infectious and likable.

posted by jonmc 16 January | 17:25

Heresy!!!

posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson 16 January | 17:27

Come back again
I want you to stay next time
Cause sometimes the world ain't kind
When people get lost like you and me

I just made a friend
A friend is someone you need
But now that he has to go away
I still feel the words that he might say

Turn on your heartlight
Let it shine wherever you go
Let it make a happy glow
For all the world to see

Turn on your heartlight
In the middle of a young boy's dream
Don't wake up too soon
Gonna take a ride across the moon
You and me

He's lookin' for a home
Cause everyone needs a place
A home's the most excellent place of all
And I'll be right here if you should call me

Turn on your heartlight
Let it shine wherever you go
Let it make a happy glow
For all the world to see

Turn on your heartlight
In the middle of a young boy's dream
Don't wake up too soon
Gonna take a ride across the moon
You and me

Turn on your heartlight now
Turn on your heartlight now

Neil Diamond doesn't care about Mac and Me.

posted by gigawhat? 16 January | 17:27

*but, yeah - the Partridges ruled over the Bradys with a psychodelic fist*

posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson 16 January | 17:28

Eid, you think I'm a genuine faux-pseudo-ironic? I am not so sure.

Wow, do those lyrics blow. They blow hard.

I can't comment on the Partridges. Who wrote their stuff?

posted by richat 16 January | 17:30

I hereby declare my love of Neil Diamond, unironically and unabashedly.

posted by jrossi4r 16 January | 17:31

I enjoyed Neil's soundtrack to Jonathon Livingston Seagull when I was a kid. Other than that, not so much.

posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson 16 January | 17:34

I have no idea who wrote it, but it's great bubblegum. It makes me want to get on a abstract expressionist themed bus and wear a velveteen suit. Who wrote stuff or whether it's 'authentic' or not ultimately is (as Christopher Walken put it) of minor fucking importance. what matters is how it makes you feel when you hear it. Read this book for further elucidation and some artful desecration of cherished cultural myths.

posted by jonmc 16 January | 17:35

The Mystery of Neil Diamonds 'Sweet Caroline' and the Boston Red Sox.

It's become a tradition, played over the speakers before the home half of the 8th inning at Fenway Park.

posted by ericb 16 January | 17:39

HELLO, AGAIN
Neil Diamond’s long, serious career.

[New Yorker | January 16, 2006 issue]

posted by ericb 16 January | 17:41

my whole point (re: the Partridges, bubblegum, and even Neil) is that if you love the Ramones et al, but don't dig the Archies, Tommy James & the Shondells etc. you're missing something. The original punk brigade out of the Bowery- Ramones, Blondie, The Dictators - unironically embraced this stuff as refreshing antidote to the pomposity that had infected pop culture, and simply because it's so damned much fun.

posted by jonmc 16 January | 17:45

All I can think of is Will Ferrell's Neil Diamond impression on SNL. He played a strung out, high and babbling Neil Diamond introducing his songs with lines like "Few people know that much of the inspiration for my songs comes from my undying hatred of immigrants and people of color..." or "I wrote this song after I killed a drifter to get an erection..."

The actual Neil Diamond is far less amusing.

posted by LarryC 16 January | 17:47

Okay, the Partridges could sing. But the Bradys could have sex.

And it would only be slightly wrong.

posted by stilicho 16 January | 17:50

witness one of the greatest pop songs of all time*. and it's pure bubblegum soul.

*Yes, the singer grew up to be a pederast loonball, but I belive that the kid on this song was kidnapped and replaced by that freak, and is now enetrtaining the citizenry on Cromulon 9)

and, yes, if you don't like the song Iposted in this comment, you have no soul.

posted by jonmc 16 January | 17:53

I wore a hole in my 45 of The Archies' "Sugar, Sugar." Wasn't hard to do, though, 'cause I think I got if off the back of a cereal box.

posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson 16 January | 17:55

IRFH, I am of the firm opinion that "Sugar Sugar," is a greater artistic triumph than anything the Grateful Dead ever produced, and I actually like the Dead.

posted by jonmc 16 January | 18:01

Agreed (because I don't).

posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson 16 January | 18:04

OK, then substitute the art-oriented-pop/rock act of your choice and you see my larger point.

posted by jonmc 16 January | 18:09

Oh, I'm totally in admiration of your huge point, jonmc.

posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson 16 January | 18:14

Jon, while I would agree with you to an extent, my reasons for asking who wrote their stuff have nothing to do with what you are saying. I am curious to know if they wrote their own stuff (at at least if the older brother did) is because song writing skills impress me.

Hey if you like it great. Doesn't mean shit to me. I was asking something that might help me further appreciate it.

And, I am starting to think you are just the kind of musical snob you claim to eschew.

posted by richat 16 January | 18:15

I would have said The Beatles.

*ducks*

posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson 16 January | 18:15

Sorry, if I gave that impression, richat.

I just meant to convey that it's all about the initial rection to what you hear is all. But, I'm pretty sure that the Partridge's stuff was written by hired guns. Damn talented hired guns, though.

posted by jonmc 16 January | 18:17

http://www.cmongethappy.com/aguide.html

posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson 16 January | 18:19

Oops! Crap! Here.

posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson 16 January | 18:20

Cas, your Neil Young is my Alanis Morrisette.

posted by urbanwhaleshark 16 January | 18:22

I never realized there was this much controversy regarding Neil Diamond. I guess the upside of my cluelessness is that I don't have any preconceived notions about Neil Diamond. That being said, of the three Diamond songs I know of, I like "Sweet Caroline" and "Girl, You'll be a Woman Soon." I didn't know he wrote "I'm a Believer" until now, but I like that song too.

Also, I'm not such a big fans of his sons' work. The Beastie Boys had a few good moments, but overall I have trouble listening to them. And fuck Screech.

posted by mullacc 16 January | 18:22

ha!

more fun here

posted by jonmc 16 January | 18:22

"And fuck Screech."

Okay - there's an image I never needed.

posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson 16 January | 18:24

No harm, no foul Jon.

I do totally agree that people should feel free to like what speaks to them. There's no point (for the most part) in trying to convince someone of the value of a Group of Seven painting, if landscapes just don't do it for them.

Likewise, no amount of appreciation of their beautiful harmonies and stellar guitar playing can help me like anything by the Eagles. Their stuff just makes me wanna punch myself in the face. I'm looking at you kyleg.

I fight the urge (as I suspect you may as well) on a regular basis to tell my co-workers that they music they like is soulless drivel, and for the most part I win the battle. No one likes to hear that, but sometimes I manage to sneer in a way that they find humourous, and that saves me I think.

Sweet, sweet pop is a thing of beauty often. I am onside here. Trust me. Sorry if i got the wrong impression. You read others' typed out thoughts enough, it's bound to happen.

posted by richat 16 January | 18:25

Likewise, no amount of appreciation of their beautiful harmonies and stellar guitar playing can help me like anything by the Eagles.

I can understand that, even if I think that they did have their moments ("Take It To The Limit" is some great fake Elton John for instance). But you do like Joe Walsh's solo stuff and his work with the James Gang, right?

(my main point in my endorsement of stuff like this (besides my personal taste) is that whenever rock and roll abandons it's mandate of fun, at least part of the time, something is lost, and I've managed to turn around several Beach Boys haters simply by playing "In My Room" and "Don't Worry Baby," and explaining that the Ramones "Rockaway beach," is basically a brillinat Beach Boys tribute song)

posted by jonmc 16 January | 18:30

I like the 'The Pot Smoker's Song' and 'Solitary Man.' Some of the other stuff is good, but not to my taste. And some of the other stuff is awful.

On preview: Funny--I used to turn around Beach Boys haters by playing Pet Sounds.

posted by box 16 January | 18:31

Pet Sounds is great, box, but it's definitely an 'artistic credibility' record. Stuff like "In My Room" (a self-pity song that blows away anything Morissey ever did), "Don't Worry baby"(The best song about male vulnerablity, ever) and "I Get Around" (a truly great raveup) succeed as pure glorius rock and roll.

posted by jonmc 16 January | 18:33

No argument here, jon. I'd like to think that there's a time and a place for both artistic credibility and pure glorious rock and roll. I'm a lot more into the former, but I definitely respect the latter.

(But who are these people who have never heard 'Don't Worry Baby' and 'I Get Around'? Haven't they ever listened to the radio?)

posted by box 16 January | 18:48

While not that familiar with lots of Joe's stuff, the stuff I know, I like.

I can see your point about rock abandoning fun too. I agree as well!

posted by richat 16 January | 18:48

No argument here, jon. I'd like to think that there's a time and a place for both artistic credibility and pure glorious rock and roll.

I like it best when the two collide head on: the Beatles, the Stones, Dylan, the Who, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, Springsteen, Smokey Robinson etc.

But who are these people who have never heard 'Don't Worry Baby' and 'I Get Around'? Haven't they ever listened to the radio?)

Well, I Get Around is played a lot, but it's tough to get people to listen to it with fresh ears. Don't Worry Baby (Keith Moon's favorite song, and one of the few songs that can make me openly weep) is played more rarely.

While not that familiar with lots of Joe's stuff, the stuff I know, I like.

"Life's Been Good," is one of the punkest songs of all time.

posted by jonmc 16 January | 18:53

Life's Been Good is one of the ones I am familiar with, and it rocks.

Oh, I might need to go back to the Top 5 thread and push someone into the 3.5 spot or something so I can include the Who. I Can't Explain is brilliant, as is so much of their stuff. Even when they were bad, they were pretty fucking great.

posted by richat 16 January | 19:10

The Who were the first band that I ever intensley identified with. "My generation," and "Won't Get Fooled Again," are still among my all-time favorites. And stuff like "Boris The Spider," and "My Wife," proves that they liked to unapologetically rock out as much as any band on the planet.

posted by jonmc 16 January | 19:14

I think the Who, and Adrian Brody too I suppose, were my favourite things about the movie, Summer of Sam. I loved Richie the Punk Rocker, who kept rocking out to the Who!

posted by richat 16 January | 19:21

The Who and Yes were my first two big rock crushes.

posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson 16 January | 19:23

jonmc - The Who are yet another musical experience we share. I grew up with the Beatles, Beach Boys, and surf and drag collections from my older brothers, but the Who were the first band I went absolutely apeshit over. I was in highschool for their first farwell tour and saw them three times (and bought a ridiculous amount of merch each time) Once I bought all the official albums and solo projects I started a costly bootleg and collectables addiction.

As for Neil Diamond - He had a few great songs early on ("Solitary Man", "Cracklin Rosie" and "Sweet Caroline"), but even in his fabled early glory days he was still releasing more thrw-away cheese than songs with staying power. And for rest of his career he occassionally hit upon something good, but not very often. And of his later days, I tend to prefer the over-the-top cheese to the more restrained stuff. I saw Neil live about 10 years ago and I felt like I was seeing Elvis for middle-aged housewives. The place went fucking nuts for every song. I saw several women crying at various points in the show.

And the Partridges are automatically cooler than the Brady's for the killer wah-wah guitar riff in "I Can Feel Your Heartbeat" alone. "I woke In Love This Morning" is just icing on the cake.

The Beach Boys are hit and miss in the second half of their career, but when they hit, the songs are incredible. Here's a mix of my faves of the pre Pet Sounds Beach Boys. I guess I never posted the follow up.

posted by Slack-a-gogo 16 January | 19:36

Ok, how about Jobriath (RIP, brother rock and roller)? He was the first openly gay (as opposed to cryto-gay or coyly bisexual) rock and roll singer. His song Imaman is brilliant is so many ways; one for appropriating the old rock and roll "I'm A Man," brag into a gay anthem and two for the musical brilliance of the track. The vocals are pure coy theatricality, but the guitar chords behind him are pure rock and roll swagger, and it's a beautufl combination.

posted by jonmc 16 January | 19:50

You will never convince me to like the Beach Boys. They are my nemeses.

posted by jrossi4r 16 January | 19:57

jrossi4r: pips once said the same thing. just listen to the songs I mentioned with open ears and let your heart melt.

posted by jonmc 16 January | 20:02

From the Department of Sweeping Pronouncements:

In the 60's, The Who were as gods. In the 70's, they were mostly really, really good. Ever since then, Pete Townshend has been doing his level best to water down his legacy. They should have called it a day after Keith Moon died.

Neil Diamond: decent songwriter at times, over-wrought cheese-monger otherwise.

The Beach Boys: with Brian, they were sublime. Without him, they have no point. Mike Love has a very warm corner of hell awaiting him upon his death.

The Partridge Family: rockinest harpsichord ever. Also,
≡ Click to see image ≡

posted by bmarkey 16 January | 20:14

I like the early Neil Diamond, having heard it on the radio when it came out. The Bradys and the Partridges were a little late for me. I loathed them as plastic crap when they appeared. Just as I loathed bubblegum rock and earlier Sonny and Cher (more syrup anyone?)

I was very much into surfer music in the early 60's - Beach Boys, Jan & Dean, and particularly loved The Ventures. I remember diving for the volume knob when Telestar came on. Later I got into heavy metal during high school, mostly because the people I hung around with played it a lot. I really liked the acid rock, Quicksilver Messenger Service's first album (they went downhill fast), mid-phase Jefferson Airplane, Iron Butterfly, Steppenwolf (I still have their greatest hits tape and frequently play Monster for a little lift.) I ran a light show in Seattle and the South Bay between 1969 and 1971. I think the last show I did was in the spring of 72. I still have the slides I used, but don't have any of the projectors or other equipment; it was all sold off when I went off to college with nothing but a sleeping bag, a footlocker and a motorcycle.

My last gasp of rock enthusiasm was the all-too-brief New Wave resurgence of the early 80's. It was mods to the punks' rockers and the best New Wave radio (Steven Raybow on KRAB and whatever that short-lived and much missed New Wave station in Seattle was...) included early punk as a tribute.

Oddly, I still remember when I first heard about the Beatles. It was right after they were on Ed Sullivan (which we never watched). The cool kids were all "You don't know about the Beatles?" and I was "Are they any good?" -- possessing critical faculties that most of the cool kids were completely lacking since their idea of cool was what everybody else was into. Bunch of right-wing conformist jerks. The first record I ever bought was Edgar Varese "Poeme Electronique" -- I wish I had it on tape or CD. Good God!!

Punk was a breath of fresh air during the "mainstream" wasteland that was the mid-70s. But I must say that Pat Boone's punk phase was pretty damn useless. Though it was nice to see him getting trashed for being a Satan worshipper by Pat Robertson.

Missa Luba is cool. I first heard it in IF..., a kickass movie if you're trapped in high school with YAF during the 60s.

I always liked the phrase "victim of cool." I think there's a song or a band by that name.

posted by warbaby 16 January | 20:20

In the 70's, they were mostly really, really good.

Ordinarily, I'd agree with you, my main mang, but their best album (Who's Next, Meaty Beaty dosen't count since it's an admittedly great complilation, but a comp nonetheless) was released in 1971.

on preview: warbaby, were obviously coming at our music appreication from ery diffrent angles, but it's all good.

posted by jonmc 16 January | 20:22

Whatever moves the feets.

I must say I was very glad when the trees did Sony Bono in. Mother Nature always bats last.

posted by warbaby 16 January | 20:32

perhaps, but Sonny was also part of Phil Spector's studio crew and he wrote "I Got You Babe," so he couldn't have been all bad. As I've said numerous times, good politics and good music have very little to do with eachother.

posted by jonmc 16 January | 20:35

but their best album Who's Next

There was a time when I very definitely would have agreed with you on that. Maybe I've just heard that album too many times... These days, I'd have to say The Who Sell Out was their high-water mark.

posted by bmarkey 16 January | 20:38

and plenty of what was written off as 'bubblegum' in the 60's has held up better than a lot of the more serious products of the same era. witness 'Louie Louie' 'Wolly Bully,' 'Surfin' Bird,' and the ouevere of Paul revere and the Raiders (yes, they wore corny costumes and played on a Bandsatnd style dance show, but 'Just Like Me' is an incredible stomper, even today)

posted by jonmc 16 January | 20:39

Warbaby:

Steppenwolf (I still have their greatest hits tape and frequently play Monster for a little lift.)

I think Steppenwolf deserve more credit. They're stuff holds up, and some of it sounds better now than it did then. And Monster is a favorite of mine. Hardly a month goes by where I don't play the epic cut at least once. And as a kid I learned how to draw many of the devious things from that album cover illustration, which didn't go over well with the third grade teachers.

posted by Slack-a-gogo 16 January | 21:01

Man, the Raiders used to play at the Lake Hills roller rink! Call out the riot squad. When the Raiders and the Sonics double-billed at The Castle, the cops made themselves scarce.

The Raiders were never bubble gum. Kicks is mod, but it sure as hell isn't bubblegum. If it was pro-drugs, it would be rocker.

Tommy James and the Shondells (Crimson and Clover) were bubblegum. The 1910 Fruitgum Company was bubblegum. Bubblegum was mostly prepubescent teenieboppers with miniskirts and white vinyl go-go boots and not a clue in the world. The Royale Guardsmen were bubblegum (but Snoopy's Christmas still rocks.) It ain't cool, but cool is not everything. Maynard G. Krebbs said that.

The Raiders were rockers who turned mod. Just like the Who, come to think of it.

There's rockers and there's mods. David Bowie and the glam-rockers were mod beyond mod. Steppenwolf was rocker. The Stones were rocker (except for Her Satanic Majesties Request) -- I think that was an aberation when Brian Jones fed the rest of them acid. The Ramones took rocker to a new dimension. Mods or Rockers: Everything else is cheese.

posted by warbaby 16 January | 21:06

The 1910 Fruitgum Company was bubblegum. Bubblegum was mostly prepubescent teenieboppers with miniskirts and white vinyl go-go boots and not a clue in the world. The Royale Guardsmen were bubblegum

of course they were, but they were still a lot of fun. Read that book I linked up thread. I think you'll dig it.

(and I fucking love Steppenwolf, Blue Cheer, Grand Funk, Humble Pie & the rest of the stoner/biker rock brigade)

posted by jonmc 16 January | 21:11

Mods or Rockers: Everything else is cheese.

I want that on a t-shirt, or my tombstone. Something.

posted by bmarkey 16 January | 21:11

also, I love the stones, but the only reason the Animals don't get the same credit is because they never developed songwriting chops equal to Jagger/Richards. Burdon was a far better singer than Jagger.

posted by jonmc 16 January | 21:14

Burdon never suffered enough for that abortion called Sky Pilot. Sheesh. That alone was enough to finish the Animals off. A couple of years earlier, they rocked.

Max Flatow is a precocious, social miscreant who has a way with home-made explosives.

Kids these days are wussies. They show up a demonstrations with big puppets and sea-turtle costumes. We burned police cars and beat the crap out of any cop we found alone. Hell, we used to burn police cars after dances at the roller rink. That's the rocker influence coming through.

Speaking of rockers, how 'bout them Kinks?

Ah, sixties nostalgia.

posted by warbaby 16 January | 21:24

Nobody ever burned a police car after Neil Diamond played.

posted by warbaby 16 January | 21:25

Burdon never suffered enough for that abortion called Sky Pilot. Sheesh.

Yes, but 'It's My Life' redeems him.

Speaking of rockers, how 'bout them Kinks?

'You Really Got me' is one of the best expressions of pure lust ever, and 'Waterloo Sunset' is everything Morrissey wishes he was.

posted by jonmc 16 January | 21:26

The Who are the best thing ever (see username)

Also, I heard "Dont Worry Baby" on the radio this afternoon. I cranked it.

posted by drjimmy11 16 January | 22:19

the Partridge Family? I personally think they were way cooler than the Bradys.

Not as cool as Greg and Peter Brady!

"...former Brady Bunch stars Barry 'Greg' Williams and Christopher 'Peter' Knight portray a gay couple, even sharing a kiss, in an upcoming episode of That 70's Show, which was taped last week and is set to air on April 27th"

posted by ericb 17 January | 18:00

16 January 2006