http://metachat.org/index.php?disp=comments en-US http://backend.userland.com/rss 60 Mon, 15 Oct 2012 00:39:16 +0000 c606204@http://metachat.org I haven't been down that road, BUT if it should come to it, I would get guardianship over my mother. Actually co-guardian with my oldest brother if that's an option. I think it's important for someone who knows the person's wishes should "take charge" if that person can no longer make decisions. Of course, a living will would be a good thing to have in place. But if the person who is incapacitated is beyond that now, definitely go for the guardianship.
I think it's important for someone who knows the person's wishes should "take charge" if that person can no longer make decisions. Of course, a living will would be a good thing to have in place. But if the person who is incapacitated is beyond that now, definitely go for the guardianship.]]> http://metachat.org/index.php/2012/10/14/i_can_haz_guardianship#c606204 Mon, 15 Oct 2012 07:12:29 +0000 c606221@http://metachat.org do you have any problematic relatives? my cokehead uncle began making threats when my mother became conservator. several months ago he sent his siblings an email claiming that he "knew how much i made"...but I've been told he's most pissed at my mother. http://metachat.org/index.php/2012/10/14/i_can_haz_guardianship#c606221 Mon, 15 Oct 2012 11:03:13 +0000 c606223@http://metachat.org The only problematic relative is my brother, who is basically at the heart of why we think we need to go the guardianship road. http://metachat.org/index.php/2012/10/14/i_can_haz_guardianship#c606223 Mon, 15 Oct 2012 13:36:26 +0000 c606230@http://metachat.org You absolutely need to talk to an elder law specialist. Having full power of attorney for someone with Alzheimer's becomes necessary (sadly), but there are all kinds of things that you have to do *before* it's too late for them to legally sign their name. You need to know what they all are, and you need to have that paperwork in place while it's still possible. You'll probably want to talk about the difference between power of attorney (and the different kinds of PoA) and guardianship, and what the benefits and disadvantages are. There's also all kinds of stupid things that you can't get past in any way, like the fact that the IRS requires that THE filer of tax returns sign it, somehow, even if they can't write anymore and you have full power of attorney. Somehow they're supposed to sign their tax return. Yeah. (And if you have any kind of insurance, often they require re-certification of disability every year. Because Alzheimer's is going to get *better*, And they, too, want signatures from the patient.) These guys are really helpful: http://www.alz.org/care/alzheimers-dementia-financial-legal-planning.asp but it's really, really complicated and you should involve a lawyer who really know what s/he is doing on this topic.
There's also all kinds of stupid things that you can't get past in any way, like the fact that the IRS requires that THE filer of tax returns sign it, somehow, even if they can't write anymore and you have full power of attorney. Somehow they're supposed to sign their tax return. Yeah. (And if you have any kind of insurance, often they require re-certification of disability every year. Because Alzheimer's is going to get *better*, And they, too, want signatures from the patient.)

These guys are really helpful:
http://www.alz.org/care/alzheimers-dementia-financial-legal-planning.asp

but it's really, really complicated and you should involve a lawyer who really know what s/he is doing on this topic.]]> http://metachat.org/index.php/2012/10/14/i_can_haz_guardianship#c606230 Mon, 15 Oct 2012 15:24:00 +0000 c606232@http://metachat.org I guess I should offer some background to this... Way back before mom went down the Alzheimer's path, she drew-up papers that declared my younger brother first power of attorney. I'm second. Why she did it this way, I can only guess...but that's what she did. • Mom lives 70 miles away. • My younger brother lives about 1.5 miles from mom. • Mom lives alone in a small condo. My brother lives in the old house we grew-up in. It's still owned by mom (paid-off) The deal between them was that he would take care of utilities and the property taxes. Fast-forward to today...Mom's declining state is rapidly coming to a point where we need to get her into a facility before something bad happens...like burning the condo down or her simply walking away one night. However...My brother is the one standing in the way of her going anywhere. In the intervening years, he's fallen onto very hard times. He owes the IRS an astounding amount in back-taxes and fees. His wife left him because of it. When he does work (he's a carpenter) he gets paid under the table, so there's no record to alert the IRS. He's not paid the property taxes on the house. Worse, though, is he has been siphoning-off money from mom to cover his personal expenses. This is not only reducing mom's limited income, it also puts in-jeopardy future Medicaid benefits (look-back, monetary gifts, etc) Unfortunately, mom's signing the checks to him, so we can't really prove he's stealing the money. She'll gladly give her boys anything face-to-face. Mothers...gotta love 'em. One of our local churches provides free 30-minute consultations with elder-care attorneys once a week. We went to one recently and laid-out our situation. The problem is that, being first power of attorney, my brother is standing in the way of mom's current and future care. Basically, he knows that, if mom goes into a care facility, we will have to sell the house he's in, making him effectively homeless. We'd sell mom's car, too, which he drives everywhere. The lawyer suggested we look at having me declared mom's guardian as being the most effective way to circumvent my brother and get him out of the way. So, that's why we're considering it and why I was asking about others' experiences as guardian.
Way back before mom went down the Alzheimer's path, she drew-up papers that declared my younger brother first power of attorney. I'm second. Why she did it this way, I can only guess...but that's what she did.

• Mom lives 70 miles away.
• My younger brother lives about 1.5 miles from mom.
• Mom lives alone in a small condo. My brother lives in the old house we grew-up in. It's still owned by mom (paid-off) The deal between them was that he would take care of utilities and the property taxes.

Fast-forward to today...Mom's declining state is rapidly coming to a point where we need to get her into a facility before something bad happens...like burning the condo down or her simply walking away one night. However...My brother is the one standing in the way of her going anywhere. In the intervening years, he's fallen onto very hard times. He owes the IRS an astounding amount in back-taxes and fees. His wife left him because of it. When he does work (he's a carpenter) he gets paid under the table, so there's no record to alert the IRS. He's not paid the property taxes on the house. Worse, though, is he has been siphoning-off money from mom to cover his personal expenses. This is not only reducing mom's limited income, it also puts in-jeopardy future Medicaid benefits (look-back, monetary gifts, etc) Unfortunately, mom's signing the checks to him, so we can't really prove he's stealing the money. She'll gladly give her boys anything face-to-face. Mothers...gotta love 'em.

One of our local churches provides free 30-minute consultations with elder-care attorneys once a week. We went to one recently and laid-out our situation. The problem is that, being first power of attorney, my brother is standing in the way of mom's current and future care. Basically, he knows that, if mom goes into a care facility, we will have to sell the house he's in, making him effectively homeless. We'd sell mom's car, too, which he drives everywhere. The lawyer suggested we look at having me declared mom's guardian as being the most effective way to circumvent my brother and get him out of the way.

So, that's why we're considering it and why I was asking about others' experiences as guardian.]]> http://metachat.org/index.php/2012/10/14/i_can_haz_guardianship#c606232 Mon, 15 Oct 2012 15:35:46 +0000 c606233@http://metachat.org oh, man, Thorzdad. I have no advice, never having been in your situation, but that's messed up. I'm really sorry. http://metachat.org/index.php/2012/10/14/i_can_haz_guardianship#c606233 Mon, 15 Oct 2012 17:01:09 +0000 c606237@http://metachat.org Thorzdad, I wonder if adult protective services might have other resources or options for you to consider? It sounds like what your brother is doing would likely constitute elder abuse (both financial and neglect, if he's standing in the way of getting her the care she needs and/or not watching her appropriately). If you do call, I'd probably make it a hypothetical question to start with (that is, don't give your name or his name, or say you're calling for a friend, or whatever).
If you do call, I'd probably make it a hypothetical question to start with (that is, don't give your name or his name, or say you're calling for a friend, or whatever).]]> http://metachat.org/index.php/2012/10/14/i_can_haz_guardianship#c606237 Mon, 15 Oct 2012 17:17:12 +0000 c606238@http://metachat.org I've talked about APS with others in the Alzheimer's support group I attend. The drawback to that is, if APS determines that mom should be in a care facility, then she has to go right now, and we are far from having her financial ducks in-order to do that properly (and not in a panicked haste) http://metachat.org/index.php/2012/10/14/i_can_haz_guardianship#c606238 Mon, 15 Oct 2012 20:05:11 +0000 c606251@http://metachat.org It's the right route, but you are looking at a big nasty food fight with your brother, who feels entitled, needy, and estranged from you already. You need a very good lawyer. This is not going to be cheap. Consider talking to your local bar to see if they have any kind of ability to link you with someone who is excellent and will take this for a reduced fee or (if you are very lucky) pro bono.
This is not going to be cheap. Consider talking to your local bar to see if they have any kind of ability to link you with someone who is excellent and will take this for a reduced fee or (if you are very lucky) pro bono.]]> http://metachat.org/index.php/2012/10/14/i_can_haz_guardianship#c606251 Mon, 15 Oct 2012 20:22:48 +0000 c606252@http://metachat.org In our best case scenario, we won't even tell my brother about this until after it's done. That's probably not kosher, I know...and I feel like a heel going down this path...but he's really put me in a corner with regards to mom. The lawyer we spoke with at the church said he estimated the cost at getting the guardianship declared, including court fees, to be around $1,200-1,500. That's definitely a huge chunk for us.
The lawyer we spoke with at the church said he estimated the cost at getting the guardianship declared, including court fees, to be around $1,200-1,500. That's definitely a huge chunk for us.]]> http://metachat.org/index.php/2012/10/14/i_can_haz_guardianship#c606252 Mon, 15 Oct 2012 23:52:54 +0000 c606272@http://metachat.org Geez. Oh geez oh pete. Is there any way you can simply involve an accountant? Make him account for the money in the checks that are signed over, since you do have second power of attorney? If he can't manage to siphon money off any more, then he may be willing to let the whole arrangement go. Sometimes there are family law services that will work on a sliding scale; you may want to look into this as well as elder law, since the sliding scale may help a lot. Since you're talking guardianship, family law may be able to help and that might take a significant slice out of the $1200-$1500. If your mom will give anything to her boys face to face, could she give you primary power of attorney if you go visit her? Is she still legally capable? I'm so, so, so very sorry you're in this situation. I wish I could offer anything at all about guardianship, but that's just not the route our family took :( ~ ~ ~ Here's a thought. If you involve APS and they determine she needs professional care immediately, can you bring her home with you while you arrange the care facility, and pay for in-home care with her limited income until it is arranged? If she has any insurance/Medicaid, they may even cover part of it. (Better would be if they could allow her to stay where she is and get professional in-home care until then, but if that wouldn't be allowed, do you think they'd allow you to take her temporarily?)
Is there any way you can simply involve an accountant? Make him account for the money in the checks that are signed over, since you do have second power of attorney? If he can't manage to siphon money off any more, then he may be willing to let the whole arrangement go.

Sometimes there are family law services that will work on a sliding scale; you may want to look into this as well as elder law, since the sliding scale may help a lot. Since you're talking guardianship, family law may be able to help and that might take a significant slice out of the $1200-$1500.

If your mom will give anything to her boys face to face, could she give you primary power of attorney if you go visit her? Is she still legally capable?

I'm so, so, so very sorry you're in this situation. I wish I could offer anything at all about guardianship, but that's just not the route our family took :(

~ ~ ~

Here's a thought. If you involve APS and they determine she needs professional care immediately, can you bring her home with you while you arrange the care facility, and pay for in-home care with her limited income until it is arranged? If she has any insurance/Medicaid, they may even cover part of it. (Better would be if they could allow her to stay where she is and get professional in-home care until then, but if that wouldn't be allowed, do you think they'd allow you to take her temporarily?)]]> http://metachat.org/index.php/2012/10/14/i_can_haz_guardianship#c606272